1103 replies to this topic

[mjr]

I've "lightmate" for my flipper and magnasave button and I'm lost about resistance.

I can read in your schematics :

 

If connecting multiple LEDs in parallel per output

(e.g., with Lightmite boards), set the limit to be
slightly higher than the required combined current,
and DO use limiting resistors on the LEDs to ensure
each parallel circuit is limited properly.

 

My english is not perfect and I'm a noob in electronic ... If I understand, I could replace R5 by 2.4K and put 200 ohms resistance on each chanel in Lighmate board ? (values are approximate because I don't know the standards)

Have you a concrete exemple for 20ma LED please ?

 

If you're using 20mA LEDs with the Lightmites, they'll be wired like this on the Lightmite itself:

 

 

Since the two LEDs are in parallel, the total current flowing through the overall circuit is 2x the current through each LED.  So with two 20mA LEDs, you'll need 40mA total through the outputs.

 

Choose the resistors you install on the Lightmite board based on the values for your LEDs.  Use a calculator like this one:

 

http://led.linear1.org/1led.wiz

 

Since each LED gets its own separate resistor on the Lightmite board, just plug in the values for ONE LED at a time.  Note that the red, blue, and green segments of an RGB LED usually have separate "forward voltage" values, so you should calculate each one separately.  Once you get those figures, install the corresponding resistors on the Lightmite board.

 

Finally, for R5, you want to set the outputs for >= 40 mA.  The resistor value for this is 1K ohm (it's listed in the schematic note you referenced).

 

Hope this helps!

[mjr]

In what feels like one step forward and a million steps back... I've got a problem I'm having trouble tracking down.

 

I think I may have fried my lightbar. I may have inadvertently sent 12V to all of my RGB's. At one point I had everything working on a PCB on my light bar where I've got my strobes and RGB's all running from the one board with a 12V line going to the strobes and 5V to the RGB's but a recent modification to that board may have tied the 12V line into the 5V line... at least that is what my readings were telling me... now I'm not getting any of my RGB's to work for the exception of one.

 

I've tried to simplify things to rule out my wiring as being the culprit.

 

I've got the following:

 

A test lead running from the +5V of the flasher section to the red banded end of my resistor, then a test lead from the other side of the resistor to the + side of the RED on a brand new RGB LED. Then I have a test lead going from the pin JP11-9 (Port 13) from the main board to the - side of the RED on a the brand new RGB LED. I then run the directoutputtest utility and when I run 13 255 nothing lights up. If I set my mutlimeter to continuity and touch the + and the - the LED lights up. 

 

Did I blow something on the main board that might need replacing?

 

Maybe... your test is just what I'd have suggested, and your results do seem to confirm that the outputs are broken.

 

Let's see.  I'm guessing your LED resistors are in the 5 to 10 ohm range.  12V into 5 ohms will yield 2.4A.  The flasher outputs on JP11 go through the Darlington chips - the ULN2064.  Those are are only good to 1.5A.  So you might have fried those.  

 

I'm pretty sure the damage would have been isolated to the ULN2064 chips if this is indeed what happened, so I wouldn't expect anything else to be damaged.

 

What a bummer!

Edited by mjr, 06 August 2016 - 03:10 AM.

[roar]

Ugh... That sucks... Not a cheap chip either I see. Anyway to test them individually or should I just swap all 4?

[mjr]

Ugh... That sucks... Not a cheap chip either I see. Anyway to test them individually or should I just swap all 4?

 

I'd go through and repeat the same test you did on each output individually to be sure.  Some of the chips might have survived.  The outputs are wired pretty straightforwardly:

 

Output - JP11 Pin# - Chip

 

R1  -  2  -  IC5

G1  -  4  -  IC5

B1  -  6  -  IC5

R2  -  8  -  IC5

 

G2  -  10  - IC6

B2  -  12  - IC6

R3  -  14  - IC6

G3  -  16  - IC6

 

B3  -  1  -  IC7

R4  -  3  -  IC7

G4  -  5  -  IC7

B4  -  7  -  IC7

 

R5  -  9  -  IC8

G5  -  11 -  IC8

B5  -  13 -  IC8

 

Strobe - JP9-1  - IC8

[MatthGyver]

 

I've "lightmate" for my flipper and magnasave button and I'm lost about resistance.

I can read in your schematics :

 

If connecting multiple LEDs in parallel per output

(e.g., with Lightmite boards), set the limit to be
slightly higher than the required combined current,
and DO use limiting resistors on the LEDs to ensure
each parallel circuit is limited properly.

 

My english is not perfect and I'm a noob in electronic ... If I understand, I could replace R5 by 2.4K and put 200 ohms resistance on each chanel in Lighmate board ? (values are approximate because I don't know the standards)

Have you a concrete exemple for 20ma LED please ?

 

If you're using 20mA LEDs with the Lightmites, they'll be wired like this on the Lightmite itself:

 

 

Since the two LEDs are in parallel, the total current flowing through the overall circuit is 2x the current through each LED.  So with two 20mA LEDs, you'll need 40mA total through the outputs.

 

Choose the resistors you install on the Lightmite board based on the values for your LEDs.  Use a calculator like this one:

 

http://led.linear1.org/1led.wiz

 

Since each LED gets its own separate resistor on the Lightmite board, just plug in the values for ONE LED at a time.  Note that the red, blue, and green segments of an RGB LED usually have separate "forward voltage" values, so you should calculate each one separately.  Once you get those figures, install the corresponding resistors on the Lightmite board.

 

Finally, for R5, you want to set the outputs for >= 40 mA.  The resistor value for this is 1K ohm (it's listed in the schematic note you referenced).

 

Hope this helps!

 

 

Thank's a lot !

With R5 at 1 kohms, I calculate that for my red way I need  a 150 ohm resistror and 82 ohms for green and blue.

It work perfectly. You are the man ;-)

[MatthGyver]

I've two strange problems :-/

 

When I activate the ZBLaunch function, it work great for the tables with button as plunger but with the table with real plunger, it does'nt work.

It work when the ball is in game but at the ball launch moment it does'nt work.

If I desactivate ZBlaunch function, plunger work great all the time but in table without plunger I have'nt ZBlaunch functionality :-/

 

When I'm programming the board with gamepad option ON, after that I see a gamepad in windows 10 device manager and I can view all inputs button and axis in built-in windows tools.

But when I want calibrate the plunger, all is black. I need to reset and unplug the board, reboot windows to see correct plunger data. I can calibrate plunger without problem.

The problem is that after reset, unplug and reboot my pinscape is not see as a gamepad. The icon in device manager is a keyboard. By right click on this icon, I've option about gamepad parameter and in parameter window, I see only 6 button whitout axes.

I really dont understand :-/

 

Have you an idea please ? (I haven't re-read all the topic but I think that no body have mentioned my problem)

 

Thank you ;-)

[mjr]

When I activate the ZBLaunch function, it work great for the tables with button as plunger but with the table with real plunger, it does'nt work.

 

It's not supposed to.  If the table has a real plunger, the plunger simply acts like a real plunger.  

 

If you think about it, it's really not possible to have the "push to launch" behavior for tables with real plungers, even in principle.  If the table has a regular plunger, pushing on the mechanical plunger simply has the same effect on the virtual plunger.  You don't want it to mean "launch" because it already has the more important effect of simply having the on-screen plunger track the motion of the physical plunger.

 

This is all controlled by the DOF "ZB Launch Ball" output, by the way.  The DOF config is set up so that the output is ON whenever you have a table loaded with a "Launch Ball" button and a ball is in the chute.  That disables the mechanical plunger and enables the "push to launch" behavior.  At all other times, the mechanical plunger is enabled and the "push to launch" is disabled.

 

 

When I'm programming the board with gamepad option ON, after that I see a gamepad in windows 10 device manager and I can view all inputs button and axis in built-in windows tools.

But when I want calibrate the plunger, all is black. I need to reset and unplug the board, reboot windows to see correct plunger data. I can calibrate plunger without problem.

The problem is that after reset, unplug and reboot my pinscape is not see as a gamepad. The icon in device manager is a keyboard. By right click on this icon, I've option about gamepad parameter and in parameter window, I see only 6 button whitout axes.

I really dont understand :-/

 

I'm afraid I don't quite understand what you're doing either.

 

Are you saying that you're now stuck permanently with the 6-button no-axis joystick?  Or does that return to normal when you unplug and replug the controller, or reboot, or something?
 

It shouldn't do any of this, but if things are back to normal after you unplug and replug the KL25Z, you can probably just do that.  Unless it keeps recurring every time you boot or something like that.

[MatthGyver]

 

When I activate the ZBLaunch function, it work great for the tables with button as plunger but with the table with real plunger, it does'nt work.

 

It's not supposed to.  If the table has a real plunger, the plunger simply acts like a real plunger.  

 

If you think about it, it's really not possible to have the "push to launch" behavior for tables with real plungers, even in principle.  If the table has a regular plunger, pushing on the mechanical plunger simply has the same effect on the virtual plunger.  You don't want it to mean "launch" because it already has the more important effect of simply having the on-screen plunger track the motion of the physical plunger.

 

This is all controlled by the DOF "ZB Launch Ball" output, by the way.  The DOF config is set up so that the output is ON whenever you have a table loaded with a "Launch Ball" button and a ball is in the chute.  That disables the mechanical plunger and enables the "push to launch" behavior.  At all other times, the mechanical plunger is enabled and the "push to launch" is disabled.

 

What I wanted to say is that with ZBlaunch activated, regular plunger does'nt work for table with regular plunger. Plunger act as a ZBLaunch button, a short push to "enter" keyboard
But with your clear explanation I better understand.
I check my DOF configuration and I see that I've configurer my output to "launch button" not "ZB launch ball". I should not be awake when I configured DOF.
I'll test reconfiguration as soon as possible.

 

 

I'm afraid I don't quite understand what you're doing either.

 

Are you saying that you're now stuck permanently with the 6-button no-axis joystick?  Or does that return to normal when you unplug and replug the controller, or reboot, or something?
 

It shouldn't do any of this, but if things are back to normal after you unplug and replug the KL25Z, you can probably just do that.  Unless it keeps recurring every time you boot or something like that.

 

I'll do more tests and a screencast because it's not easy to explain with my english level.

 

Thank you ;-)

[mjr]

What I wanted to say is that with ZBlaunch activated, regular plunger does'nt work for table with regular plunger. Plunger act as a ZBLaunch button, a short push to "enter" keyboard

But with your clear explanation I better understand.
I check my DOF configuration and I see that I've configurer my output to "launch button" not "ZB launch ball". 

 

Ah, yes, I misunderstood - I had it backwards.

 

You're quite right about needing to use "ZB Launch Ball" instead of the regular "Launch Ball" in your DOF configuration.  The regular "Launch Ball" is turned on for all tables whenever a ball is in the chute, even for those with regular plungers, so it'll activate the pushbutton feature in the Pinscape firmware for all tables.  Which is clearly not what you want!  Changing to "ZB Launch Ball" in DOF should clear this problem up.

[MatthGyver]

The problem was well DOF configuration.

It work very well now.

 

For my joystick problem, in windows I've this :

 

 

Note that the icon is a keyboard. Sometime, after reset and reprogramation I've a gamepad icon (not all the time)

When I've a gamepad icon, I show a full black / gray gauge at all positions in plunger calibration and I need to reset kl25z to show correct "value". (I can't not reproduce this today so I've not screenshot)

But after this reset / reboot I've the problem show in the screenshot. Maybe is'nt a problem because plunger and nudge work great and for the button I've programing keyboard button.

I need a special driver for gamepad ? (In memory I think that is not the case)

 

Thank you very much

[mjr]

For my joystick problem, in windows I've this :

 

 

Note that the icon is a keyboard. Sometime, after reset and reprogramation I've a gamepad icon (not all the time)

When I've a gamepad icon, I show a full black / gray gauge at all positions in plunger calibration and I need to reset kl25z to show correct "value". (I can't not reproduce this today so I've not screenshot)

But after this reset / reboot I've the problem show in the screenshot. Maybe is'nt a problem because plunger and nudge work great and for the button I've programing keyboard button.

I need a special driver for gamepad ? (In memory I think that is not the case)

 

No driver is required.

 

The keyboard device is correct.  That will appear if you have any input (including the ZB Launch feature) set to use a keyboard key instead of a joystick button.

 

You should also have a separate joystick device.  Try this:

 

Open the start menu search box and type Set up USB game controllers.

 

That should list a control panel with that exact name.  Open the control panel.  There should be a Pinscape Controller device listed.  Double-click that and see what the properties look like.  If plunger and nudge are working, the joystick device probably is being loaded normally, so the whole problem might just be that you're accessing the properties via the keyboard device, which Windows thinks of as a separate device even though the whole KL25Z is just one device physically.

 

If that version of the control panel appears to be normal (X/Y/Z axes, 32 buttons), then you're probably okay - you can probably just ignore the weird 6-button version you're seeing when you double-click the keyboard icon.

 

If you go through the Set up USB game controllers control panel and still have the problem with the missing axes and the six buttons, try opening regedit.  Look for a key that follows this pattern:

 

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\MediaProperties\PrivateProperties\DirectInput\VID_FAFA&PID_xxxx\Calibration

 

The PID_xxxx part will actually be PID_00F7, or maybe some other combination of hex digits.  If you find any keys of this form, delete them.  Windows stores some cached information in the registry that sometimes gets corrupted - this seems to happen in particular if an error occurs during the initial USB connection.  The problem is that once you get bad information in that registry key, Windows won't re-load the correct information from the device until you manually delete the key.  I've seen similar symptoms with the weird joystick control panel display caused by this in the past, so that might be what you're encountering.

Edited by mjr, 09 August 2016 - 08:56 PM.

[MatthGyver]

Thank you, I'll test your suggestions tonight.

 

Waiting, there is a pics of my cheap CCD support made with square tube. It work very well for me.

Maybe can inspire other handyman

[MatthGyver]

I understand well how keyboard / joystick work with your explanations.

I've apply your recommendations and I've remove the reg key but the problem persists.

I've remove pinscape keyboard from setting page (this in my screenshot). Windows have made a new installation and it's work !!

Thank you for taking the time to explain to me and have helped me ;-)

[Pete248]

Could you give me a quick sketch how to connect the TSL1410R to the plunger connector on the main board. And are all the connections between the TSL1410R terminals still necessary as shown in the V1 manual or are the handled by the main board.

 

Greetings

 

Pete

Edited by Pete248, 12 August 2016 - 04:26 PM.

[Pete248]

Thank you, I'll test your suggestions tonight.

 

Waiting, there is a pics of my cheap CCD support made with square tube. It work very well for me.

Maybe can inspire other handyman

 

Try to understand the design.

 

The tube goes over the plunger, the CCD on top and is lit by a couple of LEDs from the bottom, right?

 

Would be nice if someone would come up with a printable 3D sketch.

 

A short LED stripe would probably be easier to solder than individual LEDs.

Edited by Pete248, 12 August 2016 - 04:52 PM.

[mjr]

Could you give me a quick sketch how to connect the TSL1410R to the plunger connector on the main board. And are all the connections between the TSL1410R terminals still necessary as shown in the V1 manual or are the handled by the main board.

 

The internal connections (between different pins on the sensor) are the same as in the V1 manual.  Those are not handled on the main board; you still need to do those exactly as shown in the V1 manual.

 

The connections to the main board are the same 5 wires as shown in the V1 manual.  The pins they connect to are all on JP2 (the plunger header):

 

pin 1 = the little triangle and "PTB0" printed on the board = sensor AO1/AO2 (they're connected together)

pin 3 = "PTE21" printed on board = sensor SCLK

pin 5 = "Vcc" printed on board = sensor +3.3V

pin 6 = sensor GND

pin 8 = sensor SI

 

Leave the rest of the pins on the header unconnected.  Note that the even numbered pins don't have any individual pin labels printed on the board - these are the row of pins on the outside edge side of the board, on the side where the label just reads "PLUNGER" rather than labeling the individual pins.

 

If you're interested, I have a design ready for a small interface circuit board that makes connecting the sensor to the main board much easier.  It has a row of pin pads that line up with the pin pads on the sensor, it handles all of the internal connections between sensor pins, and it has a connector for a ribbon cable with the wires arranged in the same order as the pins on the main board.  It should reduce the work of assembling the sensor quite a bit and make the finished product much neater and cleaner.  The snag is that I've only just designed it and haven't had a chance to test it yet, so you'd be the Guinea pig.  I'm going to post the CAD files for that eventually anyway, but if you're interested in trying it out now I can post them immediately.  The board is really small so you can have it made inexpensively at a place like OSH Park (www.oshpark.com).

[MatthGyver]

You have wiring information in PinscapeConfigTool when you select your plunger sensor.

 

There is a picture in my cab :

Plunger go inside the tube.

It's need only 2 leds (I've made more hole for test led position)

 

[mjr]

 

Thank you, I'll test your suggestions tonight.

 

Waiting, there is a pics of my cheap CCD support made with square tube. It work very well for me.

Maybe can inspire other handyman

 

Try to understand the design.

 

The tube goes over the plunger, the CCD on top and is lit by a couple of LEDs from the bottom, right?

 

Would be nice if someone would come up with a printable 3D sketch.

 

As it turns out, someone has!  A fellow named Cary just sent me a Sketchup design he put together a bracket for the sensor that should work with my little interface circuit board, and should also work with both the TLS1410R and TSL1412R.  He kindly offered it for public posting for anyone to use, so I'll get that on the web site for you and post a link.

[Pete248]

If you're interested, I have a design ready for a small interface circuit board that makes connecting the sensor to the main board much easier.  It has a row of pin pads that line up with the pin pads on the sensor, it handles all of the internal connections between sensor pins, and it has a connector for a ribbon cable with the wires arranged in the same order as the pins on the main board.  It should reduce the work of assembling the sensor quite a bit and make the finished product much neater and cleaner.  The snag is that I've only just designed it and haven't had a chance to test it yet, so you'd be the Guinea pig.  I'm going to post the CAD files for that eventually anyway, but if you're interested in trying it out now I can post them immediately.  The board is really small so you can have it made inexpensively at a place like OSH Park (www.oshpark.com).

 

 

Yes, I'd be interested. I'm currently waiting for the parts. Should arrive in the next week. Would be great to have your board instead of having to do the messy soldering on the sensor.

As it turns out, someone has!  A fellow named Cary just sent me a Sketchup design he put together a bracket for the sensor that should work with my little interface circuit board, and should also work with both the TLS1410R and TSL1412R.  He kindly offered it for public posting for anyone to use, so I'll get that on the web site for you and post a link.

 

 

Great! Is it a similar design like that of MatthGyver, that goes over the plunger and includes mounting slots for the LEDs? Or is it just a bracket for the senso (+ your board)?

[mjr]

 

If you're interested, I have a design ready for a small interface circuit board that makes connecting the sensor to the main board much easier.  It has a row of pin pads that line up with the pin pads on the sensor, it handles all of the internal connections between sensor pins, and it has a connector for a ribbon cable with the wires arranged in the same order as the pins on the main board.  It should reduce the work of assembling the sensor quite a bit and make the finished product much neater and cleaner.  The snag is that I've only just designed it and haven't had a chance to test it yet, so you'd be the Guinea pig.  I'm going to post the CAD files for that eventually anyway, but if you're interested in trying it out now I can post them immediately.  The board is really small so you can have it made inexpensively at a place like OSH Park (www.oshpark.com).

 

 

Yes, I'd be interested. I'm currently waiting for the parts. Should arrive in the next week. Would be great to have your board instead of having to do the messy soldering on the sensor.

As it turns out, someone has!  A fellow named Cary just sent me a Sketchup design he put together a bracket for the sensor that should work with my little interface circuit board, and should also work with both the TLS1410R and TSL1412R.  He kindly offered it for public posting for anyone to use, so I'll get that on the web site for you and post a link.

 

 

Great! Is it a similar design like that of MatthGyver, that goes over the plunger and includes mounting slots for the LEDs? Or is it just a bracket for the senso (+ your board)?

 

Okay, I'll try to get them both uploaded soon.

 

The bracket attaches to the plunger.  It doesn't include anything for the LEDs, as the recommendation is to mount those separately as far away as possible from the sensor (which basically means on the floor of the cabinet) to get the narrowest shadow.