4027 replies to this topic

[jpsalas]

I understand you fripounet, as it has taken me a while to get used to the new layers. I just keep adding objects to the table without thinking which layer is the selected one, and after that I need to move the new objects to the correct layer In 10.6 when I added an object it always went to layer 1, so I got used to that. It was perhaps more cool in 10.6 to be able to select the object and send it from the menu to the right layer, than in 10.7 where you have to select first the layer and then move the object to it. But with an unlimited amount of layers I don't see it practical to do it like in 10.6, as the menu may grow too much, so I think it is right the way to do it in 10.7. It is simply different I use a lot photoshop and when I go back to VPX I keep pressing ALT and the mouse wheel to zoom inn or the spacebar to move around and then I realize I'm not in photoshop anymore, hahaha. So all the programs are different, and you need to get used to each program

[vbousquet]

Now that music can be embedded inside the VPX file, a feature that could be nice too would be to be able to include additional (any type) files inside the VPX file. This would allow original tables to include there additional files directly inside the VPX one and be distributed as a single file. For original DMD, you usually need images that can be already included using the "Image manager" but also GIF, WMV, MP4, FNT (bitmap font definition) files which can not be embedded at the moment. So an "Additional file manager" along the other manager would be really great!

 

Thanks a lot to all of you for your great work. VPX is incredible and keeps getting better, this is wonderfull!

[Thalamus]

Must be some kind of bug still floating around when you pick audio output device. My muffled backglass problem came back. Resolved by jumping between 7.1 and old 2.1 channel output exiting and retrying different outputs. Ended up getting it to work with 7.1 after backglass was set to use default and the other to my real-tek. This was the exact same setting I have had for a long time (years?), but, was NOT working earlier in this thread.

[wiesshund]

Must be some kind of bug still floating around when you pick audio output device. My muffled backglass problem came back. Resolved by jumping between 7.1 and old 2.1 channel output exiting and retrying different outputs. Ended up getting it to work with 7.1 after backglass was set to use default and the other to my real-tek. This was the exact same setting I have had for a long time (years?), but, was NOT working earlier in this thread.

does your PC have more than one technically functional audio device?

Might help to set the ones not in use to disabled, i know sometimes, out of the blue i will find out that the PC has decided to swap audio.
especially if it goes into sleep mode, because then the monitor also goes into suspend, and when the pc wakes, the monitor pops back on after, and windows thinks i just plugged it in

and decides Oh looky, another HDMI audio, we should totally use this.

 

So i just set everything i'm not using to disabled, then it has no choice to stay put.

 

Of course if you are actually using the other audio devvices, then that isnt exactly an option.

Might be worth looking at though, at least the ones you are not using

[Thalamus]

That's the thing. I have to go over and double check, but, I've disabled unused audio devices a long time before you became very active responding to threads

[wiesshund]

That's the thing. I have to go over and double check, but, I've disabled unused audio devices a long time before you became very active responding to threads

Eh, seemed worth mentioning.
Some times, it thinks it just reinstalled it, and i find it not disabled any more.

 

I think it depends on the monitor though, cause my other ones do  not present them selves as disconnected, even if i power it off.
But the 2k HDMI one does, and i have not found a setting to change that behavior.

I can turn it off, and then back on, and literally hear windows do the new device inserted sound.

Usually it does not bother anything, but one in a while the order things happen in must come about the wrong way, and them i am defaulted to sound out of that HDMI
which is kind of dumb as that HDMI has nothing that can play audio, the monitor has no speakers.

[fripounet]

is it possible to integrate a particle system, even a basic one?

spark particle editor example (open source) https://github.com/Synxis/SPARK

 

Edited by fripounet, 28 March 2021 - 08:54 AM.

[Thalamus]

Well. I guess I have to stand corrected. One of the monitors was available, all other devices disabled. I should have known better. Been telling people to disable unused devices for years. All I can say. I don't know if the sound went out to that monitor. It has been in my cab for years and it was disabled before. So, next time. I will not trust disabled devices to still be disabled. Thanks Wiesshund.

[wiesshund]

Well. I guess I have to stand corrected. One of the monitors was available, all other devices disabled. I should have known better. Been telling people to disable unused devices for years. All I can say. I don't know if the sound went out to that monitor. It has been in my cab for years and it was disabled before. So, next time. I will not trust disabled devices to still be disabled. Thanks Wiesshund.

You probably did have it disabled, and at some point it presented itself to windows out of its normal order making it go in last

that is what happens to me some times

VPX it does not bother, because table and backglass are hard set, but vpinmame on the other hand uses windows default sound mapper
and when windows decides to change it, suddenly the black knight isn't talking smack.

Well, he is talking, but not to anything i could hear him on.

 

And i just remembered
you can run devcon from a command prompt and disable any device by it's device ID.
though not sure that will affect waking from sleep, dont think that re runs start ups

but it would at least catch them on the reboots

[cv2065]

Is there an on-going list of tables that have been successfully tested with 10.7?

[jpsalas]

Is there an on-going list of tables that have been successfully tested with 10.7?

 

Practically all the tables should work with the latest 10.7 beta. I'm sure you won't find many that don't work.

[toxie]

Yup, there is for example CC© that abused the core scripts and thus needs a small script tweak, but i think that's about it. Cause otherwise we always try to fix incompatibilities where it makes sense.

[cv2065]

Is there an on-going list of tables that have been successfully tested with 10.7?

 
Practically all the tables should work with the latest 10.7 beta. I'm sure you won't find many that don't work.

Thanks guys. I think I’ll take the plunge this weekend from 10.6

[wiesshund]

 

 

Is there an on-going list of tables that have been successfully tested with 10.7?

 
Practically all the tables should work with the latest 10.7 beta. I'm sure you won't find many that don't work.

Thanks guys. I think I’ll take the plunge this weekend from 10.6

 

 

Should not be a plunge to worry about
If your zip app allows it (7zip does) rename the VpinballX.exe in the zip to VpinballX 10.7.exe, and then extract the zip into your visual pinball folder
10.6.1 will remain intact, and get updated scripts in the process, and will still remain the default VPX so as not to interfere with your normal setup.

I have not found any tables so far that will not run in 10.7 except for some tables that also do not run in 10.6, due to vbs script changes mostly
and once the table script was fixed up, they ran in both fine.

Edited by wiesshund, 03 April 2021 - 05:08 AM.

[lukpcn]

When using -minimized command line param I can't see the progress bar when loading from frontend but can't use Q button to pause the VPX while playing

When not using -minimized I see the progress bar window when loading a table but can use Q for pauing the gameplay....

Can We have a param for just hiding the progress bar window ? something line -NoLoadingBar or something ? That would allow to have no progress bar and still be able to pause vpx...

[toxie]

@JP (and of course all others): Here is the (hopefully) fixed mp3/ogg internal support (proper volume, panning and looping): https://github.com/v.../runs/716267282

Please all let me know if there is still something fishy going on, or if there is still some different behavior compared to playing wavs.

 

(i also added a new sharpening postprocessing pass, available in the video preferences)

[wiesshund]

@Toxie

this is maybe not possible
But i was wondering if it would be possible to give an option of 4x brute force FSAA and 2X brute force FSAA

 

reason i ask is VPX does a much better job of antialiasing itself than if you tell the video drivers to do it (In fact they can mess it up entirely)

but some systems might not be quite up to the full 4X, but would still see a nice quality boost from 2X

 

Like i said, i dont know if that is even a possible option
but i though i would ask in case it was something fairly simple

[toxie]

Unfortunately, not really. The way the 4x super sampling is implemented is actually pretty whacky, and i just added it like this because it was reasonably simple to make it work.

Anything different from 4x would require substantial rework of all the rendering code.  :/

[wiesshund]

@JP (and of course all others): Here is the (hopefully) fixed mp3/ogg internal support (proper volume, panning and looping): https://github.com/v.../runs/716267282

Please all let me know if there is still something fishy going on, or if there is still some different behavior compared to playing wavs.

 

(i also added a new sharpening postprocessing pass, available in the video preferences)

 

3 test sounds

 

Multi CHannel ogg

Stereo ogg

Mono Ogg

 

The Good

Back Glass Test results with OGG

1) fader no longer has any affect on any file sent to backglass, it wont move the sound any place (which is logical since you checked BACKGLASS)

2) Volume can be set to max, no distortion 900dB sounds

3) Mono sound is played to front left and right speakers evenly

4) Stereo sound is played as, well stereo sound

5) Multi track audio plays correctly to what ever speaker channels you have encoded it to play out of

6) Sound can be panned left and right, it it pans correctly and smoothly

7) No ogg audio comes out the center channel, unless the ogg actually has a center channel

 

 

2 test sounds

Mono bumper sound

Stereo bumper sound right channel phased

 

The BAD

Table sound test using wav (OGG has same exact results aside from volume is good)

1) mono or stereo, a sound set at 0 fade and 0 pan plays the following way

evenly via the rear (front of table) speakers, which is expected, sound is in the center, 0 on the fader

but sound plays from the center and front right(rear right of table) channels

 

2) Sound can not be panned 
if you try to pan it, it wont budge and as you increase the pan, it does a hard flop for center and front left channels
there is no in between

 

3) Volume control is good be it WAV or OGG

 

4) Table control of panning seems to suffer the same
The sound, be it mono or stereo, will come out of the center and front right channels until it reaches the tipping point which is -0.010 pan and then it goes hard left
there is no middle ground, so for example a bumper at the back center of the table, is going to go hard left or hard right, depending on how much off center it is
and for most Cabinet users, the center channel is not going to make up for it because they do not have one.

 

Table audio should not be able to find the center channel as it is not generally used in 3d positioning of game audio, just the front and rear corners

 

The stereo bumper sound above plays correct when set to backglass

 

5) if the sound is faded to the front of the table (rear speakers)
it plays the same out the left and right, regardless of where it is told to pan to, it is always dead center no matter chat
 

 

The Ugly

 

Backglass is now very good.
Ogg does not have the preamp set to 11
and no sounds are going out the center channel (Or any other non front left/right channels), unless said sound is multi channel and actually has a center or other non front left/right channel

 

But

 

Something has happened to table audio
It now seems to be suffering from some of the same issues the backglass was having

and if all 8 channels are active, it gets a bit funkier because it bleeds up into the backglass speakers as well as panning hard in the table speakers

 

Ball rolling sound was weird as the ball would snap across the table hard, plus roll out of the center channel the entire time.

I had a mono coin drop sound play at the plunger
which is about are right and rearward as you can get before you arent in the table any more
it faded as intended, but there was no pan to it, sounded like a coin hit both sides of the table

 

I tested the following settings

Surround (Front is rear of cab)

7.1

7.1 enhanced for exciters

I tested both the 64 and the 32 bit

 

If i pull my center speaker off line, i start to feel like Thalamas

 

Backglass is good, now need to get table in order

Unfortunately, not really. The way the 4x super sampling is implemented is actually pretty whacky, and i just added it like this because it was reasonably simple to make it work.

Anything different from 4x would require substantial rework of all the rendering code.  :/

Ah, ok then

I didnt know if it was simply a value or something like that.

[toxie]

Thanks (as usual ) for the excessive testing!

 

As for the 3D position stuff: njk to the rescue, please. I have no clue about that (plus no setup to test this).

 

Stereo Panning: Unfortunately we're stuck in legacy hell here, as this is on a log scale since it was implemented back then.  :/

And so we cannot change it, unless we want to break existing tables.  :/

If you look at the example table, there is for example a ^10 scaling involved when panning, due to this, to make the setting more sane.

Another thing about the OGG files playing with the PlaySound: they don't seem to repeat when you use the -1 parameter, like PlaySound"mysong", -1

This should now work (i hope ), otherwise please give me a hint.

Edited by toxie, 04 April 2021 - 01:26 PM.