1790 replies to this topic

[Thalamus]

Err ... would not expect Mrtr32 to need to free up resources - https://www.vpforums...=27063&p=493788

[Mrtr32]

@Thalamus

 

The reason for this request is not only to free up some resources.

 

it is a way to change size keeping aspect ratio of the dmd without having to deal with height and width each time you want to resize.

 

After testing and fine tuning my new computer, my observation is the standard vPinMAME DMD is more resources free than Freezy's DMDext.

 

I'm using Freezy's DMDext with all JPs tables without any performance issues and the way the tables are built seems to have an impact to the resources also.

 

 

Thanks!

Edited by Mrtr32, 10 January 2022 - 03:35 PM.

[apophis]

Hello guys! I’m developing an updated LOTR table at VPW. We’ve noticed a couple minor issues with the emulation. Is this the right forum to bring them up?

[wiesshund]

I'd guess that disabling AO will just free up enough resources/compute cycles so that the DMD gfx are more fluid. If you're tight on a budget, then this might be just enough to make things more performant.

Yea except, he has Mother of Gaming PC's

12th gen Intel CPU and an RTX 3090 GPU

 

He should not need to free up anything, he should have a resource surplus

 

His PC should be dancing circles around mine chanting nany nany booboo, but it isnt.
The question is why?

It isnt the hardware

Edited by wiesshund, 11 January 2022 - 12:05 AM.

[Mrtr32]

@wiesshund

 

My fine tuning is almost complete on my new setup!

 

The ball movement is fast and smooth as I never seen before.

 

The issues with ball stutters and strange circle on the playfield around the ball shadow don't appear on all tables, so on many tables.

 

With 32 inches 4K UHD monitor right on my face I can't miss it!

 

The only way to solve this issues is to disable the Ambient Occlusion and ScreenSpace Reflections in Visual pinball video options.

 

This way I have an excellent visual and really fast gameplay like real table!

[Wylte]

@wiesshund
 
My fine tuning is almost complete on my new setup!
 
The ball movement is fast and smooth as I never seen before.
 
The issues with ball stutters and strange circle on the playfield around the ball shadow don't appear on all tables, so on many tables.
 
With 32 inches 4K UHD monitor right on my face I can't miss it!
 
The only way to solve this issues is to disable the Ambient Occlusion and ScreenSpace Reflections in Visual pinball video options.
 
This way I have an excellent visual and really fast gameplay like real table!

For the circles, disable AO "Update in game" globally, it basically only causes issues. You can disable AO in the properties->user options tab for many tables as well, as they have AO built into the textures or a shadow layer.
And I leave Screenspace Reflections disabled globally, since it just looks like somebody smeared grease on everything.

[Thalamus]

@apopis : Shoot ... its is the best place that I know of to report oddities from rom emulation.

[wiesshund]

@wiesshund

 

My fine tuning is almost complete on my new setup!

 

The ball movement is fast and smooth as I never seen before.

 

The issues with ball stutters and strange circle on the playfield around the ball shadow don't appear on all tables, so on many tables.

 

With 32 inches 4K UHD monitor right on my face I can't miss it!

 

The only way to solve this issues is to disable the Ambient Occlusion and ScreenSpace Reflections in Visual pinball video options.

 

This way I have an excellent visual and really fast gameplay like real table!

 

 

 

 

For the circles, disable AO "Update in game" globally, it basically only causes issues. You can disable AO in the properties->user options tab for many tables as well, as they have AO built into the textures or a shadow layer.
And I leave Screenspace Reflections disabled globally, since it just looks like somebody smeared grease on everything.

 

 

Hmm this is odd?
Is this an Nvidia thing maybe?

I dont see the things you two note, but i also do not have an nvidia card, i have a radeon
and not the newer 6000 series either, its an RX 580X gamer edition.

I would definitely notice the Vaseline on glass effect, i've used it enough in film photography
(People want to know why you are taking Vaseline to go take pictures, except they really dont want to know at all)

 

maybe it comes out looking totally different, which would be a shame?

 

I guess could be a DX9 and the fact that kind of no one cares a lot about dx9 anymore thing?

[apophis]

Ok, in LOTR during the modes there are several lamps that are supposed to be flashing. Lamps 33, 37, 41, 49, 45, and 25 all light up shots to hit during the modes by blinking. You can clearly see that in videos of the real table and the DMD also says to hit the flashing shots. However the rom is not toggling those lamps during the modes. Any idea why?

[Thalamus]

@apophis : Obviously, you have some lamps that are already working. So, my question, have you tried to create some lamps with number that you don't have already working - maybe outside of the pf somewhere and see if any of these is actually turned on instead of your expected numbers ? You can also use Wildman/BlackSad's debug db2s for this.

 

I'm quite sure I read something about this from a post mjr - way back when. You can't always be 100% sure that vpm uses the correct mapping. Of course, if you figure this out to be true, I'm sure that any of the devs would like to know about it.

Edited by Thalamus, 11 January 2022 - 11:11 AM.

[BrandonLaw]

Ok, in LOTR during the modes there are several lamps that are supposed to be flashing. Lamps 33, 37, 41, 49, 45, and 25 all light up shots to hit during the modes by blinking. You can clearly see that in videos of the real table and the DMD also says to hit the flashing shots. However the rom is not toggling those lamps during the modes. Any idea why?

 

MPU...or...Possibly cold solder joints.

 

(I'm sorry...I had to.  This is not relevant to your concern.)

[apophis]

@apophis : Obviously, you have some lamps that are already working. So, my question, have you tried to create some lamps with number that you don't have already working - maybe outside of the pf somewhere and see if any of these is actually turned on instead of your expected numbers ? You can also use Wildman/BlackSad's debug db2s for this.

 

I'm quite sure I read something about this from a post mjr - way back when. You can't always be 100% sure that vpm uses the correct mapping. Of course, if you figure this out to be true, I'm sure that any of the devs would like to know about it.

 

The mapping is correct. The lamps work fine except they do not blink on and off during modes of the game when they should. Other versions of LOTR that I have played in VPX also have this issue. I tried different version of the LOTR rom, and the issue persists in all of them. The lamps are capable of blinking, as they do so often throughout the game, just not during the modes. So, for some reason the emulation is not picking up on those blinks... it is very odd. Here is a video demo of what I'm talking about. The VPX is on the left and a video of the real table on the right. https://youtu.be/-F8MBZ_bel4

[Thalamus]

I think you explained your issue perfectly. I'm a bit baffled myself seeing this; so, let's see if someone smarter comes along

[jpsalas]

I see that those arrows blink very fast, and they used leds in the real table. So I'll do some experiments with my LOTR table and I'll see if I can get those lights to work (maybe also increasing the speed of the different timers).  

[jpsalas]

Nothing seems to be helping. I sat all the timers quite fast, I even added a vpmFastTimer (I know that it will be only used by magnets and turntables), and the fading of the lights also very high, I even removed my fading routine and let vpinmame turn on and off the lights directly. But nothing seem to help with the LOTR rom. There is nothing more I can test.

 

I see those lights are blinking very fast, almost as if it is not the ROM doing the blinking but a kind of electronic (a capacitor/transistor or similar),  which makes that effect. I guess this is a job for the vpm team But I can always do "fix" in my table so those lights blink  

[wiesshund]

Nothing seems to be helping. I sat all the timers quite fast, I even added a vpmFastTimer (I know that it will be only used by magnets and turntables), and the fading of the lights also very high, I even removed my fading routine and let vpinmame turn on and off the lights directly. But nothing seem to help with the LOTR rom. There is nothing more I can test.

 

I see those lights are blinking very fast, almost as if it is not the ROM doing the blinking but a kind of electronic (a capacitor/transistor or similar),  which makes that effect. I guess this is a job for the vpm team But I can always do "fix" in my table so those lights blink

 

LEDs can be made to flash with PWM
which may not pick up as a literal ON/OFF i guess?

If you look at a lot of really bright LED flashlights etc
they use PWM to i guess conserve the LEDs and reduce heat?
When you film them at high speed, they are flashing rather than being on constantly, so maybe something similar but a lot slower?

No idea how the real table is wired up though

 

Just guessing

[apophis]

Thanks for looking into it JP. That’s the same conclusion I basically came to. Appreciate you giving it a go.

[iaakki]

This kind of similar thing happens with BBBB and Transporter GI events. Vpinmame is just not delivering the events for some faster blinks and one needs to make a workaround. For this the implementation is much more complex as there are modes where they should flash and modes where they shouldn't. How to come up with the most correct workaround? Maybe it need to be really fast flash, so one cannot tell is it flashing or not.. 😂

[Thalamus]

Just remembered that I talked to DjRobX a couple of years back implementing modulated flasher code to vpm. Could it be related I wonder ? I'm pretty sure that it isn't implemented for whitestar, only wpc and more modern sam's. I mean, do we see binary on/off while we should see 0-255 ? Though, I admit, I'm not sure how something becomes 0 and 1 in this case.

Edited by Thalamus, 11 January 2022 - 08:23 PM.

[apophis]

Yes this could be related to that. We attempted to enable UseVPMModSol in LOTR, but that just caused problems probably because it’s not implemented as you say. But do the insert lamps ever get modulated values? Or would only the solenoids get modulated values if this was enabled?