3889 replies to this topic

[unclewilly]

when will the new camera mode be added,  not until vp10.1?

and will it eliminate the need for the antistretch stuff?

just curious as the antistretch stuff is confusing and i cant seem to acheive a round ball.\

[Shockman]

Also, the problem is that some authors prefer certain settings for the physical material properties (friction, etc) and table parameters (gravity, etc), and then retweak the ball size/mass somehow to match these. Its all a bit magical/trial and error-based currently (IMHO) how parameters are chosen by the authors, i guess until people find settings that fit the "real" games and then most people will use these.

 

If such setting exist, or can exist, then it would be the responsibility of the program to offer them. A new table brings up a built table that is not even using the same flipper settings that are applied to a new flipper.

[lio]

I don't quite understand the group/collection thing - are these even two different things or just different names for the same thing?

The changelog says "collections can now group elements together. If you enable 'Group elements together' flag and you shift+left click on one element of the group all other members ..." I understand this has somehow recently changed but I don't see the "group elements together" option anywhere - and I am with Shockman on this one: if you group elements just clicking on any element in that group should select the entire group and ctrl/shift/whatever+click should select an individual element in that group.

 

Also the floating properties window is well... reminds me of why I never liked gimp (as long as it did not support docked windows).. but that is a matter of preference (just as the group thing) :-)

[toxie]

 

Also, the problem is that some authors prefer certain settings for the physical material properties (friction, etc) and table parameters (gravity, etc), and then retweak the ball size/mass somehow to match these. Its all a bit magical/trial and error-based currently (IMHO) how parameters are chosen by the authors, i guess until people find settings that fit the "real" games and then most people will use these.

 

If such setting exist, or can exist, then it would be the responsibility of the program to offer them. A new table brings up a built table that is not even using the same flipper settings that are applied to a new flipper.

 

 

That was not meant as an offense, btw, its just the facts currently. I personally also don't know anything about "-the- perfect settings", i just wanted to say that over time we will all find out what good settings are with VP10.

 

Same goes for the defaults for all kinds of table elements: If anything is fishy there or we should change something to certain values, please all bring this up here!

[vampirolatino2]

Ohhhh. Now I understand it better, thanks!

[bent98]

toxie,

 

Are there plans on having a 64 bit and or mutil core compiled version of VP? Wondering if that would help with those trying to get above 60fps with 4x AA setting on.

[randr]

I don't quite understand the group/collection thing - are these even two different things or just different names for the same thing?

The changelog says "collections can now group elements together. If you enable 'Group elements together' flag and you shift+left click on one element of the group all other members ..." I understand this has somehow recently changed but I don't see the "group elements together" option anywhere - and I am with Shockman on this one: if you group elements just clicking on any element in that group should select the entire group and ctrl/shift/whatever+click should select an individual element in that group.

 

Also the floating properties window is well... reminds me of why I never liked gimp (as long as it did not support docked windows).. but that is a matter of preference (just as the group thing) :-)

Yeah on cab I had to turn floating properties window off or it would show from launch in frontend. but I do like the option when working on a table it is nice

[fuzzel]

when will the new camera mode be added,  not until vp10.1?
and will it eliminate the need for the antistretch stuff?
just curious as the antistretch stuff is confusing and i cant seem to acheive a round ball.\

Not anytime soon. The fact is that I don't know how to tweak the camera in a way that it looks good in FS view. You have tested the test version with the new camera system and you wasn't able to find good settings for FS. If I have a solution I add it asap

I don't quite understand the group/collection thing - are these even two different things or just different names for the same thing?
The changelog says "collections can now group elements together. If you enable 'Group elements together' flag and you shift+left click on one element of the group all other members ..." I understand this has somehow recently changed but I don't see the "group elements together" option anywhere - and I am with Shockman on this one: if you group elements just clicking on any element in that group should select the entire group and ctrl/shift/whatever+click should select an individual element in that group.
 
Also the floating properties window is well... reminds me of why I never liked gimp (as long as it did not support docked windows).. but that is a matter of preference (just as the group thing) :-)

The grouping feature is just a helper for a faster multi selection of elements which have similar settings (e.g. lights). In the future this grouping feature can be used to tell VP which elements can be rendered in one step (for perfomance). But this isn't part of VP yet

[Shockman]

It was never a proper grouping, but it was as close as we were likely to get for a while. It served a couple of ways, and it still does, but in a now illogical and more dangerous way. In the world of collections It serves as a batch selector. As a group it served as a lock. You would not break up elements you used to build one object easily and never by accident. The argument I encountered is you can still multi select, which is an argument against it ever being grouping at all.

 

And like I said, It was not true grouping in every respect*, but a nice group as 'hold relative position' which works by not breaking it up with a simple select and moving a single element of the group. That should not happen, ever, uynless you ask specifically for it, like say go out of your way to press say a shift key or something. The click and shift click were there, are there, and will continue to be there, and both ways are going to be used by all builders a lot of the time. Grouping has a reason, even if used only as a multi-select, and that is commonality, and that means sharing at least some edits, so I don't buy that grouped objects are going to be edited as individual elements most of the time or that this adds even a bit of flexibility. Groups that are elements that are making up a single object, even more important.

 

*If true grouped, 4 circle lights covering 4 quarters of a square with only edges touching, when resized would give you 4 larger circle lights covering a larger square with only the edges touching, 

[freneticamnesic]

I use the dimension manager but on the tables I build, whether it's the way I put it together or an inaccurate dimension manager (the former is most likely), the ball always feels too small. I think 52 is really damn close to what it should be, at least on Sharkey's, but then if I increase the mass accordingly it feels too heavy. 1.1 is really good I think so I'll leave it at that. Like you said, table authors all have different preferences. My physics settings are different from UW, different from JP, different from javier... we could build the same table and you'd have different versions of the same table. In the end, the goal is to get the play to feel natural, and there's so much personal preference here. We could all play them and we'd all think they play great, but based on the way the table plays, I can almost certainly tell who did the physics.

[Shockman]

You have to know what is a collection to even want to shift click on it. Whether it is a collection that is grouped or not a collection that is grouped, you have to have that in your head, or just always use shift click, always, even if the element is not part of a grouped collection.

 

Regardless what the reason a group is created, It's about keeping them as a group.

 

Selecting an element is not going to let you know if it is part of a group or not. It's strange and incorrect nomenclature. You should always know if something you select is part of a group, whether that is already knowing and using shift click to select an element of it, or not knowing and finding out with a normal select. This really should be changed back. 

 

Think team builds, mods, passing of time, not sure if the group is complete, or just forgetfulness. But think safety, continuity and logic. 

Edited by Shockman, 09 March 2015 - 07:23 PM.

[fuzzel]

OK that's a good point. But I changed it because more authors wanted it like it is at the moment. So if more of you say the old behavior was better than I change it back, it's not a big deal.

[kiwi]

1000 X 50 / 952 = 52,52

 

Max

[bent98]

OK that's a good point. But I changed it because more authors wanted it like it is at the moment. So if more of you say the old behavior was better than I change it back, it's not a big deal.

You could always add a selectable check box in options and have it either ways.

[Talantyyr]

I think something is wrong with the spinners...  Could be that i'm wrong, as i'm an absolute noob with the editor, but i've compared it to VP9 and couldn't figured out what could have changed...

 

.) There is no Backimage anymore in VPX as there was in VP9. I guess this is not intended?

.) The Background images aren't scaling anymore. 

 

I've exported the spinnerimage, which was a bmp with a green background and made it transparent and reimported it as a png, then i played around with the settings for almost an hour now as fuzzel suggested, but the image wasn't shown at all. I then recognized that it IS shown, but outside of the spinner image. The other spinner images are cut off too. 

Take a look at my table:

https://www.dropbox.....0.1FS.vpx?dl=0

 

There are spinners at the left / right ramp which have a transparent PNG. The left spinner image is cut off.

 

It's a VERY early WIP by a VP noob who has still to figure out how everything works

[Shockman]

Spinners like some other things are textured differently now. Look at the image manager and you will find a template for texture mapping the spinner. I really like the way that works now.

[randr]

@ talantyyr everything needs a material haven't looked at your wip just assuming..

[Talantyyr]

Oh sorry, i didn't know that the spinners have changed. Just assumed that it works that way

 

@Shockman: Where are those options? I can't find any specific options in the image editor. I've redrawn the spinner image and i didn't find any settings besides that alpha field (which i don't know what that's good for) But i took a screenshot!

http://workupload.com/file/nalGC6Tu

 

@randr: Figured that out already, but that's a whole lot of work to assign the materials for each element, pew!

[Shockman]

You will find the image template in the image manager of a new table. 

 

[fuzzel]

 

OK that's a good point. But I changed it because more authors wanted it like it is at the moment. So if more of you say the old behavior was better than I change it back, it's not a big deal.

You could always add a selectable check box in options and have it either ways.

 

Yes I could do that, but an option for an option isn't that great