192 replies to this topic

[wiesshund]

 

Seems like others (likely newer users) who:

- upgrade their displays (on an existing, in-place VPX install) 

- use only vPinMame for their DMD-graphics rendering (no use external-DLLs or knowledge of Freezys)

... they are gonna fall-into a hole that is hard to get out of.

 

VPX official installer does install freezys, though may not be latest version
but the person won't be devoid of the option.

 

 

So, you are saying to make vPinMame's poor handling of graphics-targeting irrelevant . Go External-DLL and easily manage coordinates from DMDdevice.ini ... right?

 

poor handling are the wrong words
It simply does not have much for options, it is MAME, it is not really intended to

If you are using an LCD panel, you can't really adjust to resemble a real DMD.
And it stores everything in registry which most people are leery of touching.

And there is were you have to go if you have put a VPN display in a location that is no longer validly on screen

 

And you dont normally have to manually fool with DMDDevice.ini much
Accept in a case like yours, where you needed to get rid of some old display locations so that you can now use the global location setting for the 3rd screen.

Or if you are doing something custom, like maybe want to enable alphanumerics for one table etc.

 

 

 

As for the style of the actual dots, you are saying they are as good or better in Freezy's? Honestly, I don't remember.

 

Suggest you park two side by side scaled to fit on the 3rd screen and compare yourself, otherwise you are simply not going to accept any answer i give and keep debating it.

 

 

 I was thinking the DMDs should look a little old because these are some of the first with that Williams-motherboard and I was thinking it would be cool to keep a couple of them vanilla (more authentic ?).

 

That does not even mean anything

Williams, Sega, Stern, doesn't matter.

Have you seen a real DMD in a real Pin?

VPM is not what they look like when sitting on an PCD, and you cant really adjust VPM to look like one either.

 

You wont make VPM look like this (which a screenshot really does not do justice)

 

 

Authentic?

 

 

Which looks authentic?

Vintage?

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[Tesla]

I think I see what you mean.

If I want "authentic" I need the extra layers-of-control of an External-DLL anyway.

Since I'm already using Freezys for some tables, I might as well use it for any that might need it (where vPinMame is coming-up-short for whatever reason).

Not to mention the advantage of DMDdevice.ini based coor/res.

 

That is a good explanation with those pics.

May I ask how you are posting pics so easy here? Are you using VPF-Image-Host or instead My-Media?

[Tesla]

Yes, over the years I have played many of my installed VPX-Tables in real-life ...  a few tables recently.

 

This is a simulation. I tend to drift toward a more "authentic" representation. If I can't use that word, I will try to find another ... "retro" maybe? But even then, I still just add-in whatever I think is cool (like well-done enhanced audio and video).

Edited by Tesla, 15 November 2023 - 08:32 PM.

[wiesshund]

Well this is neither retro nor authentic.

 

No DMD resembles this in reality

 

[Tesla]

As i said vpm stored DMD positions in registry
Per ROM

you would have to go into the registry for each ROM entry and edit the window positions, most likely back to 0, 0

there is no button for magic reset on that

 

 

 

Well, I got Terminator-2 running with internal vPinMame DMD-rendering.

 

The DMD finally appeared at 0,0 on main-Playfield. Very tiny (I think Size/Scale also =0) . I was able to drag-over to Screen-3 and resize. 

 

I had another theory, but the ultimate fix seemed to be using the Reset-Button on the vPinMame Options screen, but while inside vPinMame-Setup (not the Table). That is when I first saw it finally appear. I go into each on proper-version. You might have to Reset it twice and or run the Table.

 

Of course the cabinet was then still in our little "targeted window finding mode" you have me using. And yes ... I've tested with those off also (a more optimized Play-Time mode) and all is fine... very responsive.

 

Between the new playfield, new (mid-sized) 2.1 sound-system, and then the new-found overall responsiveness ... it's like a new machine. Seems like a more-immersive simulated pinball experience now. I think the upgrade was worth the $350 it cost me. Thanks again for all your help.

Edited by Tesla, 17 November 2023 - 02:01 AM.

[wiesshund]

removing ROM may cause vpm to blank out the settings

i have never looked at the result of removing a ROM and then having vpm purposely attempt to run it while removed

 

default size is 128 x 32 pixels, very small when put on a PC screen of any size

unless it is a sega ROM then it comes out the sega size, which is still very small

 

Still wont look like a vintage t2 DMD though
VPM has no dot glow, cant adjust dot size, sharpness or roundness to accommodate the fact it is being displayed

very large, on an LCD, cant adjust brightness etc.

 

VPN DMD is good for
Granny and the Gators
Baby Pacman

Caveman

Strikes'N Spares

Because nothing else is capable of displaying them at all.

 

3 because they run an actual flat out video game and 1 because the machine used 2 DMD displays.

[Tesla]

Good list to keep on-file.

 

So I suppose you can say my situation is a rare or out-layer case if you want. I would think (finally) upgrading your old Playfield monitor (on your existing perfectly-configured VPX cabinet install) is fairly common.

Edited by Tesla, 16 November 2023 - 11:54 PM.

[Tesla]

So, I got 15 of my 40 tables re-configured (as needed, very little actually) and play-tested at least one full-game on each. This is fun.

 

Also nice to go through this with some actual knowledge of what I am doing (unlike the first-time months ago).

 

I used Indiana Jones as my Global-Coordinates Master. The Attract-Mode graphics are nice full-frames to use for some quick edge-alignment.

 

Seems that when these are sensibly-set Globally, many tables just end-up with a properly placed DMD (with no extra intervention). No discrete entry is required for the table in the DMDdevice.ini

 

I'm running a full Macrium-Reflect backup to image-file now. All this work now captured.

Edited by Tesla, 17 November 2023 - 01:29 AM.

[Tesla]

Wiesshund,

 

Did you see that the fix for resetting the rom's display-area inside vPinMame-Setup was really to just use the Reset-Button? I edited my post above.

 

I did find all the Visual PinMame Registry Entries. They are there for all the roms, and of course, there is a lot more there than just window-coordinates and sizes. Anyway, all that ended-up being un-needed for this fix but still maybe helpful info someday.

Edited by Tesla, 17 November 2023 - 02:39 AM.

[wiesshund]

reset never wiped the window positions for me, reset other things, though not everything.

it may in more recent vpm versions? never really bothered to use it any more since there are a total of 4 tables that i use the vpm display at all.

 

If i have a ROM that gets jacked, normally i just delete it's registry key, my default global setting covered everything except use external dll
default is use neither, and colorize, default is no color.

 

so if i reset a DMD ROM, at most it's just 2 boxes to check real quick.

 

there is a whole bunch of crap you can do to the ROM in registry.
can also induce most of it via the table script as well.

[Tesla]

It was quick to load up the next 15 tables and get a DMD to display.

 

Basically, either:

a. switching to External-DLL and my Global looks fine.

- BTW, my Global is as wide-screen as it can be while staying in the proper aspect ratio (if that makes sense).

 

b. switching to External-DLL and I save a custom-one to my DMDdevice.ini. I'm trying to keep custom-entries to a minimum for simplicity. 

 

c. dropping into VPM-Setup real quick to click Reset-Button (then start Table) for use of the Internal vPinMame DMD rendering. Drag to proper screen. I set my simple-scale to 4 and center it.

 

It's pretty easy now that I know-better how it works.

Edited by Tesla, 17 November 2023 - 06:02 AM.

[Tesla]

since there are a total of 4 tables that i use the vpm display at all.

 

 

 

Another example just-now for me was Addams Family. My DMD-screen has an underlay-graphic ... letters at the bottom, but a lens-bezel at the top. Only vPinMame would let me easily-adjust the DMD-graphics slightly out-of-aspect for a perfect fit.

 

External is always proportional-adjust (which is nice) but maybe not the best here.

Edited by Tesla, 17 November 2023 - 07:07 AM.

[wiesshund]

 

since there are a total of 4 tables that i use the vpm display at all.

 

 

 

Another example just-now for me was Addams Family. My DMD-screen has an underlay-graphic ... letters at the bottom, but a lens-bezel at the top. Only vPinMame would let me easily-adjust the DMD-graphics slightly out-of-aspect for a perfect fit.

 

External is always proportional-adjust (which is nice) but maybe not the best here.

 

no, you can do that in freezys

when you right click, poke to ignore aspect ratio

 

you can smash freezys to any bizarre size

Edited by wiesshund, 17 November 2023 - 07:18 AM.

[Tesla]

 

 

since there are a total of 4 tables that i use the vpm display at all.

 

 

 

Another example just-now for me was Addams Family. My DMD-screen has an underlay-graphic ... letters at the bottom, but a lens-bezel at the top. Only vPinMame would let me easily-adjust the DMD-graphics slightly out-of-aspect for a perfect fit.

 

External is always proportional-adjust (which is nice) but maybe not the best here.

 

1. no, you can do that in freezys. when you right click, poke to ignore aspect ratio

 

2. you can smash freezys to any bizarre size

 

 

1. I forgot. I will add it to my notes. I will use it.

 

2. I'm sure you can, but I really just need fine-control over render-size and position, while keeping close to intended.

[wiesshund]

 

 

 

2. I'm sure you can, but I really just need fine-control over render-size and position, while keeping close to intended.

 

Not sure what you mean, you most certainly can

[Tesla]

I got it. I was just providing additional info. Let's move on ...

 

So, for each rom/table ... now-inaccurate or off-screen vPinMame Internal-DMD display-parameters are irrelevant if we are only using External-DLL rendering. Correct?

Edited by Tesla, 17 November 2023 - 06:41 PM.

[wiesshund]

Yea, unless you are debugging a ROM
or in a few cases, trying to manipulate something in the ROM directly via MAME tilde menu

like turning up the OPL music processor in black knight for example so the music is louder

for the most part, you wont care where the vpm display thinks it is

 

and only ROMs in which you actually moved the display will be off in the unknown regions

[digitalarts]

The two selections "show external DMD" aka Freezy-dmd and "show internal DMD" aka pinmame-dmd in Vpinmame Rom settings are stored in registry, at the given Rom.
They are the words "ShowPinDMD" and "showwindmd" with value 0 for off and value 1 for on. If external DMD aka Freezys aka dmdext is on, then the settings in DMDdevice.ini are active. If internal DMD aka pure Vpinmame DMD is active, the settings in registry are active.

[digitalarts]

If you do changes in roms, they mostly will be stored in the .NV
It totally depends on which Rom you look at...
For example 3- or 5-ball, free play or coin settings, Highscore limits...
This are settings you do "inside" the Rom, as in the original table and Rom with dip switches or dedicated buttons.

Some changes to roms, as Wiesshund said with tilde-menu, are just "outside plugged to" the Rom - the Rom itself don't see them, only Vpinmame "assign" them together, and they are stored in (romname).cfg in the Vpinmame cfg folder

[Tesla]

Yea, unless you are debugging a ROM
or in a few cases, trying to manipulate something in the ROM directly via MAME tilde menu

like turning up the OPL music processor in black knight for example so the music is louder

for the most part, you wont care where the vpm display thinks it is

 

and only ROMs in which you actually moved the display will be off in the unknown regions

 

Cool.

 

Also, thanks for the tip on Black Knight. It was the last table I installed months ago (my #40). I might need this adjustment.

 

It plays real-good, but I would really like to read the card to remind how to enable the Magna-Save buttons (so I can test them and just because I think they are cool).

Edited by Tesla, 18 November 2023 - 12:29 AM.