250 replies to this topic

[kruge99]

Oh if that is the case change the beginning state to 1 instead of 0 in the table init

check the sw15 sub routine also. to make sure i didn't have a typo when coding it

This seems like a strange issue.
So the switch needs to be activated at the start? or not activated

If it's any help, when you open the coin door, there is a message to check sw15 on the DMD as well as another message. (can't remember what it is but the number is 56? maybe?)

I see that message whenever I delete the nvram and go into the menu to reset the game to 3 ball game instead of a 5 ball game.


Best Regards,
Todd.

[MRCMRC]

Oh if that is the case change the beginning state to 1 instead of 0 in the table init

check the sw15 sub routine also. to make sure i didn't have a typo when coding it

This seems like a strange issue.
So the switch needs to be activated at the start? or not activated

The switch is controlled by these subroutines (already modified):

CODE

Sub sw15_Hit():Controller.Switch(15) = 0:sw15a.IsDropped = 0:PlaySound "rollover":End Sub
Sub sw15_UnHit():Controller.Switch(15) = 1:sw15a.IsDropped = 1:End Sub

Note that the switch opens when the ball passes through, since (I believe) is an optical switch, and closes then.

The switch must be NOT activated at start, what means that Controller.Switch(15) = 1 would do the trick. But it doesn't seem to work for me. As it seems to be an optical switch, open and closed are just the opposite as in regular switches... Anyway Controller.Switch(15) = 0 doesn't either work. The switch appears always active in the test, until the ball passes the first time through it. Then it remains open and works as expected...

EDIT: It could be a little weird when talking of opto-switches. Here:

http://www.ticketfle...est Reports.htm

is said that in a real machine, an optical switch must appear as active in test mode only when the ball is over it.

Edited by MRCMRC, 26 February 2012 - 02:51 PM.

[kruge99]

Time to compare 2 other previous versions of CFTBL:

Code snippet from Lander's recreation of CFTBL

CODE

Sub TopLeftRollover_Hit()   : Controller.Switch(swTopLeftRollover)=1 : End Sub
Sub TopLeftRollover_UnHit() : Controller.Switch(swTopLeftRollover)=0 :End Sub

---------
Code snippet from Scapino's recreation of CFTBL:

CODE

Sub TopLeftRolloverSwitch_Hit()
    Controller.Switch(swTopLeftRollover) = True
  End Sub

  Sub TopLeftRolloverSwitch_UnHit()
    Controller.Switch(swTopLeftRollover) = False
  End Sub

Both seem to match UW's script.

The only difference I can find is that Lander used a much larger custom shaped trigger, possibly overcome issues with the ball / custom triggers not registering a hit event properly? I'm not saying this is the case, I can only guesstimate the reason Lander did this because he is no longer around to offer an explanation.

Therefore, I don't think changing the script is the answer.


Best Regards,
Todd.

p.s. whenever I start a game now, the 'K' is already lit. I don't know/when this started happening. Using a new nvram fixed that problem, but I don't know what is causing it to happen to begin with.

Edited by kruge99, 26 February 2012 - 03:31 PM.

[MRCMRC]

Therefore, I don't think changing the script is the answer.

But, are we sure that the KISS skill shot worked in those versions? I've downloaded Lander's one, and I can't reach the sw15, the ball doesn't go further the PAID.

p.s. whenever I start a game now, the 'K' is already lit. I don't know/when this started happening. Using a new nvram fixed that problem, but I don't know what is causing it to happen to begin with.

Not a problem. You can disable the "KISS memory" in the pinball menu. It is default enabled.

EDIT: Just changed the plunger parameters, and I can now get to the KISS skill shot on Lander's version and, it works! The tip of the size of the trigger must be the key, as kruge99 pointed.

Let me try, I'll come back in a couple of minutes.

Edited by MRCMRC, 26 February 2012 - 03:41 PM.

[MRCMRC]

Ok. What I've concluded:

- This switch is not opto as I presumed before (checked on the manual).
- All the rollover switches are normally opened (as it must be), but this one is closed (activated) - weird.
- So the switch activates when the ball releases it, not when the ball pushes it (just the opposite as a regular rollover switch).
- So, in the script, is the Unhit subroutine who triggers the KISS skillshot check

As a summary, whe can solve the skillshot problem on two ways:

- As I suggested, changing in the script the switch control command between hit and unhit subroutines (has the problem of the switch initialization)
- As Lander did on his table, without changing the script, drawing a big trigger who ends just on the sw15.

No doubt! Landers way don't have the problem of the switch init. I've tested it on this MOD, and works OK!

[unclewilly]

My switches are reversed. Should be 1 in the hit and 0 in the unhit

[MRCMRC]

My switches are reversed. Should be 1 in the hit and 0 in the unhit

No, no, no, my mistake. I putted the code from your script, but already modified to work. In your original table the switches are as you say.

EDIT: Even, I bet the original KISS skill shot worked OK in previous versions of VP, and just sopped working with 9.1x as the left ramp did...

Edited by MRCMRC, 26 February 2012 - 05:21 PM.

[Arcade4]

Just while our green friend is a hot topic... did anyone manage to fix or make the KISS skill shot?

This works on a random occasion but I could never find the consistent sweet spot.

Oh yea, speaking of the Kiss section of the game.
As a past owner of a real CFTBL I noticed that after making a left shot to the Kiss Lane, the ball returns to the flippers way to fast on this version.
On the real machine you get to hear the entire quotes from the shot before you can shoot at it again. With this version it is possible to hit the shot at such rapid of a pace that the quotes get cut off.
So to sum up, there needs to be more of a delay before the ball pops out from the right, after making a KISS shot.

My comment regarding this was that the KISS timed skill shot doesn't really function. I think you're supposed to be able to plunge past the PAID light at a certain time to light KISS and so the 'F'.

Sorry, I was in no way referring to the KISS skill shot.
I was just trying to call attention to another area of the game that does not work perfectly that just happens to involve the KISS letters.
There has got to be a way to delay the ball coming out of the right VUK after a KISS shot.
It is returning much faster than the real machine does.
You should be able to hear the entire KISS quotes in order, one after the other, as the ball returns to the right flipper.
They should not be getting cut off as early as they do on this VP version.

[kruge99]

I think it's just a corrupted nvram.

I backed up my nvram for CFTBL (it has my 2 billion high score stored in it)

-either factory reset or delete the nvram file and error messages for sw15 and sw56 (trough) disappeared afterwards.

Anyone else can test and confirm please? I'd like to close this case. ;-)


Best Regards,
Todd.

[MRCMRC]

Anyone else can test and confirm please? I'd like to close this case. ;-)

I did so. The messages disappeared, as you say, but in test mode sw15 remains closed (activated), which is strange for a rollover switch. Anyway, with the trick of triggering the switch when it is unhit, the KISS skill shot works as it should do.

I've also modified this evening the ramps, because in some systems the left corner still was having issues. I've also repositioned some ramp borders that were a little bit high.

Tomorrow I'll try to take a look to the issue pointed by Arcade4, and then I think the MOD will be finished.

[Arcade4]

Anyone else can test and confirm please? I'd like to close this case. ;-)

I did so. The messages disappeared, as you say, but in test mode sw15 remains closed (activated), which is strange for a rollover switch. Anyway, with the trick of triggering the switch when it is unhit, the KISS skill shot works as it should do.

I've also modified this evening the ramps, because in some systems the left corner still was having issues. I've also repositioned some ramp borders that were a little bit high.

Tomorrow I'll try to take a look to the issue pointed by Arcade4, and then I think the MOD will be finished.

[MRCMRC]

I'm still thinking about the switch 15 issue.

I'll try to explain a bit more the problem, so maybe an expert could take a look to it:

- Switch 15 seems to be a rollover regular switch. So it must be normally opened, and closed eventually when the ball passes through it.

- When we launch this table (and other VP versions of CFTBL), in test mode we see that switch 15 is CLOSED (A), that is, activated. Other rollover switches are OPENED (as they should be). Maybe someone who owns a real CFTBL could run test mode and say to us how switch 15 appears?

- In a regular switch, an event can be triggered when the switch activates, that is, when it goes from opened to closed state. Is what we call swXX_hit in VP script.

- This switch acts weirdly (the opposite as presumed):
* The command "Controller.Switch(15) = 1" in the hit subroutine doesn't close (activate) the switch, but OPENS it.
* The command "Controller.Switch(15) = 0" in the hit subroutine doesn't open the switch, but CLOSES (activates) it.

- So, in this case is the UNHIT subroutine who activates the switch, and triggers the KISS skillshot event, instead of the HIT subroutine.

Any thoughs?

Edited by MRCMRC, 27 February 2012 - 07:48 AM.

[unclewilly]

My thought would be that its an opto switch rather than a roller.
Optos are always activated until the ball passes through them when they become not activated then active again after the ball has past by

[MRCMRC]

This was also my first thought, but taking a look to the manual I wasn't able to confirm it.

So, if this is an opto then the test is reporting OK its initial state (closed). I must confirm it when I arrive home this evening, but I'm pretty sure that VPinMAME is dealing with this opto like with regular switches, that is, the events are triggered when the switch goes from opened to closed, when it should be the opposite way in optos. That is why I noticed that is the unHit subroutine which triggers the KISS skill shot.

Anyway, as I said, I will confirm it this evening.

Thanks UncleWilly for your help!

[kruge99]

This was also my first thought, but taking a look to the manual I wasn't able to confirm it.

So, if this is an opto then the test is reporting OK its initial state (closed). I must confirm it when I arrive home this evening, but I'm pretty sure that VPinMAME is dealing with this opto like with regular switches, that is, the events are triggered when the switch goes from opened to closed, when it should be the opposite way in optos. That is why I noticed that is the unHit subroutine which triggers the KISS skill shot.

Anyway, as I said, I will confirm it this evening.

Thanks UncleWilly for your help!

I think it's pretty easy to presume that it's a rollover switch. Just look at the photos of a playfield image and you can see the cut-out for the wire.

Best Regards,
Todd.

[unclewilly]

The only reason i thought it could be an opto is because of how the previous versions were coded

[kruge99]

The only reason i thought it could be an opto is because of how the previous versions were coded

It is a bit of a bugger isn't it?

My only hope is that I was able to help in some way to resolve it.

[MRCMRC]

Maybe an owner of a real machine could tell us, and could check sw15 state in test mode...

Edited by MRCMRC, 27 February 2012 - 03:36 PM.

[PinKitty]

it's a rollover switch

[MRCMRC]

it's a rollover switch

Thanks. I don't understand then why VPinMAME acts that way with this switch...