357 replies to this topic

[toxie]

because it works, and its simple to add, and has no sideeffects at all (unless the ROM triggers the two mentioned special cases)! 

Edited by toxie, 17 October 2016 - 08:01 PM.

[Ben Logan]

Nice work, Toxie!

[gtxjoe]

Very cool idea, toxie!  

 

@Thalaumus - here is my understanding:

1) There are invisible flippers that will hit the ball as soon as you press the flipper button, i.e. immediate flipper response that we are all looking for  NOTE: These flippers are invisible but they will hit the ball around

 

2) There are a 2nd set of flippers in same location.  These flippers are visible but not enabled (they can not hit the ball around.  balls would pass right through them).  These are connected to the vpinmame solenoid call.  NOTE:  These are visible but can not hit the ball at all

 

3) So, you get the lag free flipper behavior with the invisible flipper, but visually the flippers only move if the vpinmame solenoid moves them.  So, when game is off, the flippers appear not to move at all, but really, the invisible flippers are rotating everytime you press the flipper button

[BorgDog]

OK, so if I read this right, if we are using primitives for flippers we still want the primitives to follow the original right?  

 

And we could still hit balls during tilt and such we just wouldn't see the flipper move correct?

[Thalamus]

@gtxjoe : ah - thank you, I finally understood :-)

[toxie]

OK, so if I read this right, if we are using primitives for flippers we still want the primitives to follow the original right?  

 

And we could still hit balls during tilt and such we just wouldn't see the flipper move correct?

 

Exactly.

 

Not perfect, but maybe good enough for most of the users/machines. For the detail-loving table authors i guess there is even a way to detect some of these special cases?

[toxie]

Something else in addition:

@Noah & Knorr: If you look at Dr.Dude (VPX) one can also see super-responsive flipper settings, maybe you can test these if they match your expectations?

[Drybonz]

Is this something that goes in the VPX engine, or would it be scripted into each table?  Also, would this break something like the Zaccaria game time bonus?

Edited by Drybonz, 17 October 2016 - 09:42 PM.

[toxie]

Cannot go into the core engine, as all the VPM<->VP connection is done via scripting.  :/

 

As for the second part: What is the game time bonus?

[Drybonz]

Some games the last ball is based on a timer... when the timer runs out the flippers stop working and the balls drains.

[toxie]

Okay, this is then like the TOTAN scenario i described.

The flippers would still work, but you would not see them moving. (as the invisible ones are doing the physics)

[Ben Logan]

So in your test,Toxie, does the slower visible flipper still appear to be hitting the ball at the correct time, even though the faster invisible flipper is the one making actual physical contact? In other words, does the eye compensate for the mismatch well enough to maintain the illusion of flipper batting the ball?

[toxie]

As the main difference is there when you are pressing and releasing the flipper button, its very hard to spot that the ball does not perfectly match the visible flipper collision as everything is in very fast motion at that point. But i leave that up to you guys to judge.

[Drybonz]

Okay, this is then like the TOTAN scenario i described.

The flippers would still work, but you would not see them moving. (as the invisible ones are doing the physics)

 

So, this just wouldn't work for games like TOTAN or Magic Castle, etc?

[dark]

banana flippers

[Noah Fentz]

As the main difference is there when you are pressing and releasing the flipper button, its very hard to spot that the ball does not perfectly match the visible flipper collision as everything is in very fast motion at that point. But i leave that up to you guys to judge.

Why not just leave them off the table completely, as I suggested in an earlier post, with the rest of the solution?

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[gtxjoe]

The physical fast flippers are invisible, so there would be no flippers on the table if you move them visual slow flippers off the table

[Noah Fentz]

Make the fast flippers visible and the VPM Flippers irrelevant. They don't even have to have length, they're just for reference.

That way, there will never be a conflict if the speeds are off.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[BorgDog]

Make the fast flippers visible and the VPM Flippers irrelevant. They don't even have to have length, they're just for reference.

That way, there will never be a conflict if the speeds are off.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Because this way you will not see flippers move when the flippers are not supposed to move.

[Noah Fentz]

But, they'll still hit the ball. Even wonkier.

Since you don't need flippers when there's no ball in play, disabling them is simple. You can even animate them by comparing the active state when fired, for games like TAF that animate them.

This is all pretty simple scripting, really.

Unless there's a way to make them uncollidable, I definitely foresee an issue with two sets acting independently.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk