1103 replies to this topic

[filth]

Thank you mjr,

 

to be honest, i have no idea what these LEDs draw, there were no specs given. It´s one of these:

http://www.pinball.c...-gehaeuse-chrom

 

It only says, that its using a green LED. Currently im not using RGB Buttons, only a illuminated Start, Super Ball and Launch Ball buttons. But as i was planning to extend my Cab with solenoids etc, I think it makes sense to use the power board and connect the LEDs there as i will need it anyways.

 

Thanks!

Edited by filth, 08 July 2016 - 07:43 AM.

[roar]

Yep, exactly.  In practical terms, I think it comes down to this:

 

1. PC Power Supply -> "PC PSU" connector (JP7 on the main board)

 

2. Isolated Second Power Supply -> "2ND PSU" connector (JP10 on the main board)

 

3. All solenoids and other high-power devices connect to the *second* power supply's (+) supplies for the appropriate voltages (e.g., +12V for your 12VDC solenoids).

 

4. And basically nothing other than the expansion boards should connect to any of the PC Power Supply terminals.

 

mjr I'm digging back into the past here as I re-wire my cabinet! Major progress on that front but I've got a question re: "2ND PSU".

 

You indicate above that the ONLY thing I should have plugged into the "2ND PSU" is JP7 on the main board and any for the sake of my setup, my solenoids, strobes and shaker, but what about JP4 on the Power Board, it is marked 2ND PSU as well... should I tie them both into the 2ND PSU or is that mislabeled on the power board?

[mjr]

 

Yep, exactly.  In practical terms, I think it comes down to this:

 

1. PC Power Supply -> "PC PSU" connector (JP7 on the main board)

 

2. Isolated Second Power Supply -> "2ND PSU" connector (JP10 on the main board)

 

3. All solenoids and other high-power devices connect to the *second* power supply's (+) supplies for the appropriate voltages (e.g., +12V for your 12VDC solenoids).

 

4. And basically nothing other than the expansion boards should connect to any of the PC Power Supply terminals.

 

mjr I'm digging back into the past here as I re-wire my cabinet! Major progress on that front but I've got a question re: "2ND PSU".

 

You indicate above that the ONLY thing I should have plugged into the "2ND PSU" is JP7 on the main board and any for the sake of my setup, my solenoids, strobes and shaker, but what about JP4 on the Power Board, it is marked 2ND PSU as well... should I tie them both into the 2ND PSU or is that mislabeled on the power board?

 

Sorry - that was a confusing explanation on my part!  

 

The boards are labeled correctly.  All three boards have the same division between the PC power supply and 2nd PSU, so you should connect all of the 2nd PSU connectors on all boards together.  You can wire them to the secondary power supply individually, or daisy-chain the wires from one board to the next.  Chaining them is probably more convenient since the boards will probably be installed close to each other.

 

And likewise, all of the "PC PSU" connectors on all boards get wired to the main PC PSU, so you can daisy-chain those as well.

 

Here's what the PSU2 connector I wired up looks like - it has a standard ATX power supply connector (male) at one end, which plugs into one of the disk drive power connectors on the power supply, and branches to three of the Molex connectors used on the expansion boards, one each for the main, power, and chime boards.

 

[roar]

Thanks for the clarification, all makes sense and it is now wired up in the cab.

I'm having a weird problem... When using your directoutputtest tool and I fire my top left bumper with a 255 the solenoid fires and holds nice and solid but when that bumper fires while playing a game like AFM and the ball goes into the pop's it is hardly moving, like it is being sent 100 rather than 255, the other top bumpers appear to fire at full power. Does DOF fire bumpers at different intensities depending on how hard the ball hits the bumpers?

[mjr]

Thanks for the clarification, all makes sense and it is now wired up in the cab.

I'm having a weird problem... When using your directoutputtest tool and I fire my top left bumper with a 255 the solenoid fires and holds nice and solid but when that bumper fires while playing a game like AFM and the ball goes into the pop's it is hardly moving, like it is being sent 100 rather than 255, the other top bumpers appear to fire at full power. Does DOF fire bumpers at different intensities depending on how hard the ball hits the bumpers?

 

DOF does use PWM with contactors.  There are two settings for this in the DOF config tool.  The first is the global intensity setting on the "Port Assignments" page.  The default is 48, which is the maximum, so unless you changed that at some point that's probably not affecting anything.  The other is that the individual device triggers on the table configs can set the intensity, but I don't think the default configs tend to do that with bumpers.  They do that for other types of effects, like target bumps, but I think bumpers are generally at full intensity.

 

It could conceivably be timing.  You can try adjusting the global duration setting for contactors on the Port Assignments page - try changing it to 120 (the default is 60) and see if that changes anything.  If that makes it worse, try going the other direction and changing it to 0.  

 

Since you say it's only the one bumper with the problem, it might just be something about the device.  Try swapping it with one of the others and see if the problem follows it to the new position.  If it does, maybe that device is a little weaker than the others and you'd be best off replacing it.

[filth]

Is it possible to use the Pinscape Interface Board without an PSU? The reason im asking: i would like to have a step-1 setup without an dedicated PC in my cabinet and use my gaming pc instead. I would wire the buttons of my cabinet with the Interface board and would not use any LEDs etc yet.

 

Will the whole thing work, if it gets only an usb connection to my PC in the first step? 

 

Should i use fuses for the outputs of the power board in the future? If yes, which fuses should i use?

Edited by filth, 12 July 2016 - 09:30 AM.

[mjr]

Is it possible to use the Pinscape Interface Board without an PSU? The reason im asking: i would like to have a step-1 setup without an dedicated PC in my cabinet and use my gaming pc instead. I would wire the buttons of my cabinet with the Interface board and would not use any LEDs etc yet.
 
Will the whole thing work, if it gets only an usb connection to my PC in the first step? 

Yep, that'll work. You don't need any external power to use the button inputs, plunger sensor, or accelerometer nudging. That will all work with just the USB power. You don't even need the interface board for any of that either - the only thing it adds for those features is better organized connector pin headers. You can just wire everything directly to the KL25Z pin headers using the assignments shown in the v1 build guide. But if you plan to add outputs in the future, you can set it up with the interface board and add the other stuff later.

Should i use fuses for the outputs of the power board in the future? If yes, which fuses should i use?

When you hook up outputs, yes, I'd recommend a fuse on each output to protect the circuitry on the board against overload. For the power board outs, a 4A standard fuse should work. For the flashers you should go with 1.5A. I'll give pointers to specific part numbers in the new build guide (eventually) - if you need part recommendations before I get that done let me know.

[r00n]

Hi Mike,

 

i've got it all up and running.  Its really amazing what you have achieved with this. The nudging is realistic. The plunger works superbly (even though I am only using a spring and a piece of aluminium to cast shadows. The whole concept and proof of concept is really fantastic.

 

I have a few issues that need some assistance if I may.

 

Firstly, upon bios post the kz is working fine is see the blue and green flashing as it should.  As soon as windows starts up (and loading drivers on the usb ports I assume) the kz pcb loses communication and starts it double red flash routine.  After boot if I unplug and replug the usb chord its all normal again, but once inside a cabinet this is going to be an impossibility. I am running pinballx and a small utility called joy2key that reassigns start button to keyboard number "1".  I don't think this is causing any issues. Any suggestions?

 

Secondly, in the physmod version, the physics are extremely exaggerated.  Is there a work around for that? I know vpin physmod version is running from the same settings as vpin9.9x and x and y set to 1000 works well in the later but not the physmod.

 

Finally, I have lost the ability to tilt the game.  A 7 on the richter scale and nothing.  it is quite a strange experience being able to see the virtual ball respond believably to analogue quakes.

 

This controller is amazing.

[mjr]

Firstly, upon bios post the kz is working fine is see the blue and green flashing as it should.  As soon as windows starts up (and loading drivers on the usb ports I assume) the kz pcb loses communication and starts it double red flash routine.  After boot if I unplug and replug the usb chord its all normal again, but once inside a cabinet this is going to be an impossibility. I am running pinballx and a small utility called joy2key that reassigns start button to keyboard number "1".  I don't think this is causing any issues. Any suggestions?

Try giving it about 10 or 20 seconds - it might reconnect on its own if you give it a few seconds. Windows resets USB a couple of times while it loads drivers, which breaks the connection. The KL25Z should reconnect by itself after a few seconds, but there are compatibility issues with some motherboards that make it get stuck if the connection is interrupted. The v2 software has the auto reboot feature that you can configure from the setup tool. By default it reboots after 7 seconds, which usually gets it unstuck even on the problematic motherboards.

Secondly, in the physmod version, the physics are extremely exaggerated.  Is there a work around for that? I know vpin physmod version is running from the same settings as vpin9.9x and x and y set to 1000 works well in the later but not the physmod.

For VP10 and physmod versions, you just need to turn the gain settings on the X and Y axes down to about 10. It's due to the difference in the physics loop timing on those versions vs VP9. The newer versions save their settings under separate registry keys from VP9, so you can have different settings for each on the same system without any conflict.

Finally, I have lost the ability to tilt the game.  A 7 on the richter scale and nothing.  it is quite a strange experience being able to see the virtual ball respond believably to analogue quakes.

For accelerometer nudging, you really also need a physical tilt bob for the full effect. Wire that as a key input tied to the T key. The accelerometer doesn't trigger the tilt bob signal to the ROM the way the space bar does in desktop mode. (Also install nudgeplugin.vbs - I don't have the link handy, but you should be able to find it on this forum).

[r00n]

That fixed it.
Thanks.

[NobodyYouKnow]

Hello Mike. I hate doing this because I know you answered my question before. I have searched and cannot find your answer for the life of me.

 

For the MOSFET and Chime boards, I know each channel is good to 4 amps, and I am fusing appropriately. My questions is what is the aggregate maximum current going to ground each board can handle? I seem to recall it is 10 amps. Am I right?

 

Regards

Edited by NobodyYouKnow, 24 July 2016 - 01:12 AM.

[32assassin]

does anyone know of a US seller for the blank boards, or an Asian market that will not charge so much for shipping

 

I only found a seller in Germany.

http://www.platinenc....html&cPath=5&=

 

and yes going to pass on the shipping

Edited by 32assassin, 24 July 2016 - 02:08 AM.

[Drybonz]

Hey 32... I got mine from this place.  http://www.mouser.com/

[32assassin]

where is the link of it,  I need the main and power PC boards (no components),  the only US seller I found wants a 10 piece minimum order.

[Drybonz]

Sure... I apologize in advance if I am mis-understanding what you are looking for, but here's the link.

 

http://www.mouser.co...FratDaJVW2nplde

[mjr]

Hello Mike. I hate doing this because I know you answered my question before. I have searched and cannot find your answer for the life of me.

 

For the MOSFET and Chime boards, I know each channel is good to 4 amps, and I am fusing appropriately. My questions is what is the aggregate maximum current going to ground each board can handle? I seem to recall it is 10 amps. Am I right?

 

It depends on exactly what parameters you use to calculate trace widths and amperages, but your recollection is about right.  The main ground traces from the MOSFETs back to the power supply ground are about 210 mils wide, which, according to the calculator below is good to 11A with 20 C temperature rise.

 

http://www.4pcb.com/...calculator.html

 

Note that this kind of figure is for sustained current - many minutes continuously.  Peak currents can safely higher.  The limiting factor is the heat that's created by electricity running through the traces.  The copper traces on the board are like any other wire in that they have electrical resistance, which means that running current through them generates heat.  That heat has to go somewhere.  The 11A figure basically reflects the balance point where the rate of new heat being generated from the current equals the rate of dissipation into the surrounding air.  Peak currents can be higher for brief periods because the extra heat they generate will be able to dissipate after the burst ends.  So you don't have to worry about a bunch of solenoids all firing at once and blowing past the 11A limit.  You'd have to exceed the limit for a while before it'll start to be a problem.  Just don't run your toaster oven and refrigerator on this at the same time.

where is the link of it,  I need the main and power PC boards (no components),  the only US seller I found wants a 10 piece minimum order.

 

The manufacturer I used is elecrow.com - they'll do batches as small as 5 copies per board, I think.  They're in China, so their shipping prices are about as expensive as the boards, but their prices are low enough that it's still a pretty good deal.  And they seem to do good work.

 

If you're in the US and you only need one or two of each board, I still have a few left from the original group order.

Edited by mjr, 24 July 2016 - 06:40 PM.

[NobodyYouKnow]

Thanks for the fast response, Mike. Yes - certainly - I am thinking slo-blow, not fast blow for fusing. I will use a 4A fuse per channel and a 10A in the ground return path coming off the MOSFET and Chime boards. I'll do something similar for the main board, but it won't be near 10A.

 

I was hoping to see your parameters for calculating power dissipation in the PCB traces, but that part of your response (and the link to the calculator) seems to have been cut off. Can re-post that part, please?

 

(I know I keep saying this, but thank you for all you do to support this hobby.)

[mjr]

I was hoping to see your parameters for calculating power dissipation in the PCB traces, but that part of your response (and the link to the calculator) seems to have been cut off. Can re-post that part, please?

 

I just edited the missing link back into the post - hopefully it'll stick this time!

 

The 10A fuse on the ground connection probably isn't a bad idea.  I leave that part unfused on my machine and just fuse the individual outputs, but the overall protection can't hurt.  And yeah, a slow-blow is probably the way to go on that, since it's not going to melt the copper to run it past the limit for a short time.

[MatthGyver]

Hi,

 

I've "lightmate" for my flipper and magnasave button and I'm lost about resistance.

I can read in your schematics :

 

If connecting multiple LEDs in parallel per output
(e.g., with Lightmite boards), set the limit to be
slightly higher than the required combined current,
and DO use limiting resistors on the LEDs to ensure
each parallel circuit is limited properly.

 

My english is not perfect and I'm a noob in electronic ... If I understand, I could replace R5 by 2.4K and put 200 ohms resistance on each chanel in Lighmate board ? (values are approximate because I don't know the standards)

Have you a concrete exemple for 20ma LED please ?

 

Thank's for your wonderfull project ;-)

[roar]

mjr...

 

In what feels like one step forward and a million steps back... I've got a problem I'm having trouble tracking down.

 

I think I may have fried my lightbar. I may have inadvertently sent 12V to all of my RGB's. At one point I had everything working on a PCB on my light bar where I've got my strobes and RGB's all running from the one board with a 12V line going to the strobes and 5V to the RGB's but a recent modification to that board may have tied the 12V line into the 5V line... at least that is what my readings were telling me... now I'm not getting any of my RGB's to work for the exception of one.

 

I've tried to simplify things to rule out my wiring as being the culprit.

 

I've got the following:

 

A test lead running from the +5V of the flasher section to the red banded end of my resistor, then a test lead from the other side of the resistor to the + side of the RED on a brand new RGB LED. Then I have a test lead going from the pin JP11-9 (Port 13) from the main board to the - side of the RED on a the brand new RGB LED. I then run the directoutputtest utility and when I run 13 255 nothing lights up. If I set my mutlimeter to continuity and touch the + and the - the LED lights up. 

 

Did I blow something on the main board that might need replacing?