1394 replies to this topic

[jimmyfingers]

which rev did you use, cause there was a bug introduced in 560 (and fixed again in 563)..

When 563 get's compiled and made available, I will try it out regarding this bug.  I am stuck at the moment regarding testing any higher rev. than 561 as that is the last one listed.

Edited by jimmyfingers, 10 May 2013 - 03:09 AM.

[ryukoken]

my computer is to old i'm going to change for the new one

i dont have alot of money but i really need it

 

just one question what have change since rev 525 ??

because this build work fine without HD enable ?

Edited by ryukoken, 10 May 2013 - 11:07 AM.

[toxie]

i think its due to our changes with the vertex buffers, we want to use that as much as possible as it will help us making VP more dynamic/switch to DX9..

maybe we can work around the disabled HD thing, i'll look into it..

[toxie]

566 has the fixes for the problems with ramps and primitives not updating.. please let me know if it works for you guys..

[jpsalas]

Yes, we'll tell you as soon as koadic compiles it, since I don't know how to compile it myself.

[toxie]

and 567 fixes the remaining primitive issues that player1 mentioned.. it wasn't actually related to the sides, but if the draw textures inside flag was unset..

 

so i guess that were all bugs (for now) then? 

[koadic]

569 is compiled and uploaded, just grab it from the 'all daily builds' folder

[jpsalas]

Thanks toxie and koadic  The primitives seems to be working fine now. Only tested with MM, since that use get strange black triangles, and now it works very well.

The redraw error is gone too

Edited by jpsalas, 10 May 2013 - 06:46 PM.

[Themer]

Probably the wrong topic, but would it be possible to make primitives collidable? This would allow us to recreate Ice Cold Beer and some other games

[unclewilly]

A primitive and an invisible wall does the same thing

[jimmyfingers]

The white colour objects issue when using light sources and disabling on any light object appears to be fixed, so thanks for that one. However, it doesn't seem the "Exact Lighting on Dynamic Objs" is doing anything for the alpha ramp flashers and the ramps do not have a similar option as with the lights for enabling / disabling "Old/darken 'On Image' lighting".

 

So this light source stuff still looks promising but we actually still need the ability to disable it on alpha flasher objects (ramps) and, unfortunately and maybe should have discussed this earlier, but the light objects also need the option to turn it off even for the "off image" lighting as any table using fading lights (most of them) will have improper intermediary lights as the "off" image for a fading light can be the 2nd brightest "a" level. Essentially the fading lights will not work correctly as they use 2 lights and both the on and off images with only one of the lights actually showing an "off" image for the off state of the light (the other showing the still mostly on “a” level). So, we really need to be able to disable lighting changes for the whole light / or both on and off independently otherwise the intent for this added option won't really be usable / succeed with any fading lights. Also, having the off image not affected in even non-fading light routines may be desirable for problems with borders between GI ranges and overly dark off images that were already drawn to ideal levels.

 

Sorry Toxie to point this aspect out now instead of earlier but also thought the ramps / flashers was already taken care of but never got to testing it while focusing on the lights and seeing the white graphic glitches. Hope it's not too hard to amend the code for these other changes too. By the way, I did this last bit of quick testing with the latest 570 revision.

Edited by jimmyfingers, 10 May 2013 - 09:04 PM.

[Argo]

rev570 gives me the error "Visual Pinball 9.1.6 rv570 has stopped working" during the game

Edited by Argo, 10 May 2013 - 09:09 PM.

[bent98]

Any specific table? What OS u running?

[toxie]

@jimmyfingers: i tweaked the 'additive blending' flag of the alpha ramp to include the disabled lighting flag if you set this (with rev 571). I guess there it makes the most sense, as it will be enabled for flashers anyhow, and so flashers will then always add the full, untweaked image over the other table elements (kinda like an 'emissive' flash). Is that okay?

 

as for the light state off/no lighting: maybe you can explain a bit more: why are for fading lights both states (on/off) used for the fade and not just the on state?

[Themer]

A primitive and an invisible wall does the same thing

 

For as far as I understood, primitives can be moved at runtime which is / was impossible for walls. Please correct me if I'm wrong

[teppotee]

If I have understood correctly for fading lights there are 2 lights. One for OFF / fade_b and second for fade_a / ON. So to get the fading effect you need 2 on top of each other...

 

For future development my next question is: how hard would it be to include the 2 additional fading images to the light object?

 

So that you could have images for OFF, fade_B,fade_A and ON for the each light. I don't know if this would break the emulation somehow but since all the fading lights are scripted by hand anyway -> it would make it so much easier to create fading lights/GI if it required only one light with all necessary images (and matching states).

[jpsalas]

rev570 gives me the error "Visual Pinball 9.1.6 rv570 has stopped working" during the game

 

Yes, the same happens to me when I try to run the table or a few seconds/minutes after I run any of my latest tables, some crash to the desktop ina few seconds after they started, other take 1 minute or so. I haven't found a pattern as why this happens (it crashes with my latest MM, Star Wars, Sopranos). Rev 569 works fine. I have been using it several hours building my new table. And everything seems to work fine.

 

as for the light state off/no lighting: maybe you can explain a bit more: why are for fading lights both states (on/off) used for the fade and not just the on state?

 

Well, that's how I made the fading lights I used two lights, and the fading uses 4 states. The first light have the states off and a "little on", and the second light has the "more on" and the on states. Why I used only two lights? Mostly to save cpu. In VP when you turn on a light it will move on top of the other lights, and I don't know if it is a bug or it was meant to be like this, but it is a feature I have used But if a light is already on you need to turn it off and on if you want it to move to the top and be visible. So if I used 4 lights, then I'll need to turn off and on each light for each step of the fading, that's 8 changes in the light states. By using two lights I get away with just one change per fading step. I guess with the newer cpus this doesn't matter so much anymore

 

Anyway the new tables will use leds So no need for fading hahaha.

[unclewilly]

A primitive and an invisible wall does the same thing

 
For as far as I understood, primitives can be moved at runtime which is / was impossible for walls. Please correct me if I'm wrong

What exactly are you using the primitive for?

For flipper logos there is a flipper under the primitive.
For drop or stand up targets a wall works fine.
For a toy such as the trunk in theater of magic a wall works fine.

I dont know of any other toy on a table that interacts with the ball in which you couldnt use a wall.

Can you give me an example of what you need.

Walls are dropable so you can move a wall with the primitive.

I think the issue with making a primitive collidable would be that for a lot of the toys the images used to make them have transparency so the entire primitive doesnt make up the toy. Look at the xwing in jps star wars. So the ball would actually appear to collide with nothing in some cases.

Its not like the models in fp. The x wing in star wars is actually an image on top of a square box

I hope that makes sence

[Themer]

Maybe I misunderstood the concept of primitives, but I thought they could be moved / rerendered at runtime. If that would be the case and they were collidable, we could recreate Ice Cold Beer in which a bar holds the ball and the player controls this bar to move the ball downward evading the holes in the wall behind the bar. Maybe that clears some things up? There are also some old arcade machines which could be recreated with moveable collidable objects, whether these are walls or primitives

[unclewilly]

Im not familiar with the game. Maybe they could make the colidable property as a check box. Has this game been recreatex. Ill check it out on the ipdb