166 replies to this topic

[uberpinball]

 
FS just takes me out of the realism.  You don't have to agree with me, but it just is what it is.  It isn't for everybody.  So please stop saying that people are missing out if they don't have cabs.  Believe or not, some of us have tried to get into it, but it just isn't for us.  Also for me, I refuse to move out one of my real pinballs to make room for a virtual one.  & who can blame me?

As I said...delusional. How you own real pins and say sitting on your ass pressing keys on a keyboard In front of a desktop monitor give you a more realistic experiece than a virtual cab must mean you're either biased by external forces or under medicated.

Edited by uberpinball, 21 April 2013 - 03:53 AM.

[The Loafer]

Holy crap über, aren't people allowed a different opinion without being delusional? I love FS ant it's awesome but we are all different. Oh wait, you have a smiley, so you must be joking, how could I misunderstand this...

[jaquintd]

The mac version already has a top down full screen view but the graphics and lighting leave a LOT to be desired. I'm betting the first PC release will be a mirror of the mac version with better lighting and higher resolution. A proper cabinet build will probably follow some time later in the year.

I don't see any type of cab / over the top type view on my mac, with latest version... are you sure? how? screenshot? thanks.

[uberpinball]

Holy crap über, aren't people allowed a different opinion without being delusional? I love FS ant it's awesome but we are all different. Oh wait, you have a smiley, so you must be joking, how could I misunderstand this...

Yeah...I was still jabbing at him some. Just was surprising to read his 'vent' post basically saying FS cab owners are in the minority, when to me that spits directly in the face of the origins of this forum. It's hosted by VirtuaPin, what do they make? Fullscreen cabs.

[Jedi Mart]

People always have differerent perspective on what they like, just as the word hobby has a huge varation on people, just like here
in the Pinball world people prefer different tables.
For example for me i choice a specific way to play VIsual Pinball, i do not own any VP Pinball Cabinet, but i play with a Playstation 2 Joystick, 42 inch TV Screen thats connected to my PC, Led lights in the room and a 5.1 Doby surround set, very enjoyable!
 

[rob046]

Holy crap über, aren't people allowed a different opinion without being delusional? I love FS ant it's awesome but we are all different. Oh wait, you have a smiley, so you must be joking, how could I misunderstand this...

Yeah...I was still jabbing at him some. Just was surprising to read his 'vent' post basically saying FS cab owners are in the minority, when to me that spits directly in the face of the origins of this forum. It's hosted by VirtuaPin, what do they make? Fullscreen cabs.

 

You can't be serious?  This is such a dumb argument.  For one thing, cab owners ARE in the minority.  They just are.  I'm not making stuff up here just to upset you.

 

The origins of these forums date back before VP9 was even out, & if you want to get technical goes back to like 2002.  FS tables wouldn't exist if desktop tables never did.  Desktop tables were first, no VPforum would exist without them, even the previous incarnation, or even this one.  All that is a moot point though.  You suggesting that we aren't allowed to dislike FS because Noah sells FS products here is just insanity & I don't even know why you are trying to make this argument.  Noah himself started on this site making desktop tables, & ONLY desktop tables early on.  What does this tell you?

Btw, I don't "dislike" FS tables.  I just prefer desktop for what I like to do, & how I like to use VP.  There are many reasons people can't get into having cabs, whether they just don't like it, or don't have the time to maintain it, or don't have the money, or space.  Whatever.  I think all those reasons might be valid for me, & so it just isn't for me right now.

Edited by rob046, 21 April 2013 - 06:24 PM.

[s1500]

 

You can't be serious?  This is such a dumb argument.  FS tables wouldn't exist if desktop tables never did.  Desktop tables were first, no VPforum would exist without them, even the previous incarnation, or even this one.  All that is a moot point though.  You suggesting that we aren't allowed to dislike FS because Noah sells FS products here is just insanity & I don't even know why you are trying to make this argument.  Noah himself started on this site making desktop tables, & ONLY desktop tables.  What does this tell you?

 

If you want to look beyond the realm of VP & FP, Pinball Construction Set in the early 80s was an overhead view of a table, but not for a cab. Numerous console & computer games were all "for the desktop" which might have an overhead view(Sonic Spinball) and and some have a dipped view(like HIgh Speed for NES). 

[uberpinball]

Calm down rob. Take your meds. To end this arguement, the last time i checked, over 90% of the VP or FP tables are remakes of what? Mechanical pinball TABLES. Done.

[rob046]

Calm down rob. Take your meds. To end this arguement, the last time i checked, over 90% of the VP or FP tables are remakes of what? Mechanical pinball TABLES. Done.

 

Actually, not even that is true.  I have about 1,000 original tables on my hard drive right now, & even that isn't even close to all of them.  There might be 2,000 originals out there between VP & FP.  You keep trying to make strange arguments, & you keep getting shot down.

Edited by rob046, 21 April 2013 - 07:03 PM.

[uberpinball]

Calm down rob. Take your meds. To end this arguement, the last time i checked, over 90% of the VP or FP tables are remakes of what? Mechanical pinball TABLES. Done.

 

Actually, not even that is true.  I have about 1,000 original tables on my hard drive right now, & even that isn't even close to all of them.  There might be 2,000 originals out there between VP & FP.  You keep trying to make strange arguments, & you keep getting shot down.

 

I can just keep going and you can just continue being a complete ass. 

 

 

Example, Zaccaria Pinball on the iPad.  I bought it the day it came out before even playing it, $3 sight unseen.  Once they improved a couple things, I dropped $30 more on it because I wanted to show them that their efforts will get rewarded through our support.  MANY people did what I did there, just by default, that is what you do in this community.  You support the things you want to see stick around & get better, you don't boycott them if they can't support your every desire, especially one that only caters to a very small portion of the vitual pinball community. 

 

This all started cause you got spun up because someone didn't like Farsight's approach to the lack of FS development and hinted at boycott. You went on about your 'spent money' crusade. If WE don't want to support them, deal with it. If you do, go donate or do w/e the hell you need to do.

 

Pinball is tabletop, stand and look down to play. Period and the end. It's fine that people like desktop ports, READ THAT 'ports' of a pinball fullscreen tabletop. But Farsight is doing something that has already been done 10 times over, taking original pinball games, played standing up, and pushing them to devices that aren't a cabinet. We really don't need another one of those companies in my opinion. We need one to step up and start by supporting cabs and then porting to desktops.

Edited by uberpinball, 21 April 2013 - 09:40 PM.

[s1500]

Pinball is tabletop, stand and look down to play. Period and the end. It's fine that people like desktop ports, READ THAT 'ports' of a pinball fullscreen tabletop. But Farsight is doing something that has already been done 10 times over, taking original pinball games, played standing up, and pushing them to devices that aren't a cabinet. We really don't need another one of those companies in my opinion. We need one to step up and start by supporting cabs and then porting to desktops.

 

There's a problem of economics. Casual players, whether it's a regular computer, iPad, or a video game console, greatly outnumber cab users. With a cab, you have a several thousand dollar investment up front. Compare that to the millions of mobile users & console owners. More people, and thus more spending money. if Farsight only made FS supported tables for PC, they would not make a profit & go out of business. 

 

If you're going to make wheels, you will stand to make more dough off of wheels for Toyota Camrys than Ferarri Enzos. 

[uberpinball]

Pinball is tabletop, stand and look down to play. Period and the end. It's fine that people like desktop ports, READ THAT 'ports' of a pinball fullscreen tabletop. But Farsight is doing something that has already been done 10 times over, taking original pinball games, played standing up, and pushing them to devices that aren't a cabinet. We really don't need another one of those companies in my opinion. We need one to step up and start by supporting cabs and then porting to desktops.

 
There's a problem of economics. Casual players, whether it's a regular computer, iPad, or a video game console, greatly outnumber cab users. With a cab, you have a several thousand dollar investment up front. Compare that to the millions of mobile users & console owners. More people, and thus more spending money. if Farsight only made FS supported tables for PC, they would not make a profit & go out of business. 
 
If you're going to make wheels, you will stand to make more dough off of wheels for Toyota Camrys than Ferarri Enzos. 

You make sense. Valid points and concrete arguments. In the end, I'll spend money on iPad versions as long as there is a direction towards cab versions, so far...there isn't. I like VP cause it saves me from filling my house with used pinballs like that guy on 'Special when Lit'....yikes

[s1500]

You make sense. Valid points and concrete arguments. In the end, I'll spend money on iPad versions as long as there is a direction towards cab versions, so far...there isn't. I like VP cause it saves me from filling my house with used pinballs like that guy on 'Special when Lit'....yikes

 

You never know. These desktop tables for sale on various devices just might be the gateway drug for people to buy a real pin, or a pincab. 

[Bluebook]

Jesus, just read all the posts .... we all do love pinball right?   and having the option to either play on your computer or having a cab is great right? with regards to Steam I am torn because I miss the 'good old days' of popping along to the shops and buying a game. however I am in the process of building a new PC Rig which will be for Steam/'other' gaming. My cab remains FP and VP only...for now... 

[Joe]

Steam get's them a DRM systems that works and they don't have to write on there own.

[Abcdefg]

I started with Pinball Dreams

 

and Pinball Fantasies

 

on the Amiga and PC, beside a few rare real table experiences.

Looking back at virtual pins, they evolved quite some ^^.

 

Last year I found this site and started with all the cool desktop table recreations of real pinball machines. Meanwhile I mostly play FS tables on my 16:9 monitor, which I turn 90° for a better atmosphere and I am quite happy with that. Personally I think FS tables have a better view on the playfield. I love good lighting as seen in the latest Attack from Mars version and even over the top lighting like Godzilla . Keep up the good work guys and don't argue about personal preferences which depend on all kinds of things (money, room, playstyle, attitude etc.)

Edited by Abcdefg, 17 May 2013 - 04:44 PM.

[darquayle]

You make sense. Valid points and concrete arguments. In the end, I'll spend money on iPad versions as long as there is a direction towards cab versions, so far...there isn't. I like VP cause it saves me from filling my house with used pinballs like that guy on 'Special when Lit'....yikes

 
You never know. These desktop tables for sale on various devices just might be the gateway drug for people to buy a real pin, or a pincab. 

This is very true for me. Although I tried VP and FP a few years back I walked away from it. Last year I tried TPA on my Ipad and got rehooked on playing virtual pinball. This led me back to VP and FP. Six months later and I'm all-in with over 350 tables running on a home built xenon cab. In addition I've got to learn a lot and make some new friends. Fun stuff.

[TheMcD]

At the end of the day, the desktop format isn't going away. It's still the more popular format by a good distance here and has been the only format for VP for years and years (since the true cabinet support only came with VP9 - there was something similar in VP6, but it was never really accepted as a real side-format, it fell to the wayside fairly quickly, especially with VP7 and VP8), after all.

 

Making the cabinet format the primary development focus is a horrible idea from a business standpoint, as the cabinet system is still very much a niche product, and since pinball itself is already niche, you're going into niche squared, which is never somewhere where you want to be if you actually want to make money by appealing to the niche squared group as compared to the plain niche group, since it's not like you can charge extra money for the cabinet version to make up for the smaller audience - you can't afford a price hike period if you're appealing to a niche group, because the moment they decide your product is too expensive, you're going out of business, because usually, that's all you've got. Of course, some niche groups have a higher tolerance limit for that, and it all depends from case to case.

[uberpinball]

At the end of the day, the desktop format isn't going away. It's still the more popular format by a good distance here and has been the only format for VP for years and years (since the true cabinet support only came with VP9 - there was something similar in VP6, but it was never really accepted as a real side-format, it fell to the wayside fairly quickly, especially with VP7 and VP8), after all.
 
Making the cabinet format the primary development focus is a horrible idea from a business standpoint, as the cabinet system is still very much a niche product, and since pinball itself is already niche, you're going into niche squared, which is never somewhere where you want to be if you actually want to make money by appealing to the niche squared group as compared to the plain niche group, since it's not like you can charge extra money for the cabinet version to make up for the smaller audience - you can't afford a price hike period if you're appealing to a niche group, because the moment they decide your product is too expensive, you're going out of business, because usually, that's all you've got. Of course, some niche groups have a higher tolerance limit for that, and it all depends from case to case.

If anyone actually played a real mechanical pinball in their youth, poured in quarters, there is no way a lame desktop version of their old quarter dump pinball would ever translate into sitting on their ass in front of a desktop. Not even a comparison.

[rob046]

At the end of the day, the desktop format isn't going away. It's still the more popular format by a good distance here and has been the only format for VP for years and years (since the true cabinet support only came with VP9 - there was something similar in VP6, but it was never really accepted as a real side-format, it fell to the wayside fairly quickly, especially with VP7 and VP8), after all.
 
Making the cabinet format the primary development focus is a horrible idea from a business standpoint, as the cabinet system is still very much a niche product, and since pinball itself is already niche, you're going into niche squared, which is never somewhere where you want to be if you actually want to make money by appealing to the niche squared group as compared to the plain niche group, since it's not like you can charge extra money for the cabinet version to make up for the smaller audience - you can't afford a price hike period if you're appealing to a niche group, because the moment they decide your product is too expensive, you're going out of business, because usually, that's all you've got. Of course, some niche groups have a higher tolerance limit for that, and it all depends from case to case.

If anyone actually played a real mechanical pinball in their youth, poured in quarters, there is no way a lame desktop version of their old quarter dump pinball would ever translate into sitting on their ass in front of a desktop. Not even a comparison.

 

Come on now.  This hobby was BUILT for YEARS & made POPULAR by DESKTOP tables.  Desktop tables have sucked people like myself deep into the hobby of pinball & even owning real pinball machines, so I'm pretty sure desktop mode is effective.  You are disrespecting a lot of members & VP greats by suggesting that they don't know how to enjoy pinball.  I've said this before.  But I have real machines, thus I have no desire for a cab.  I enjoy desktop for when I'm sitting at my computer.  I wouldn't play VP at all if it weren't on desktop. 

At least I admit that I understand why some people prefer cabs or FS.  Each person might be after a different experience & believe it or not, it might not be the same thing you are after.  For me, & I understand pinball pretty well, I find the desktop view to be more realistic because it is (or can be with the right inclination/FOV settings), & that is just a fact.  A cab is more realistic if you want the feel of standing at a pinball machine, at the expense of some table distortions & losing depth.  For some people that is a worthy tradeoff, but not everybody.

 

For me, what I look for in realism is how a table looks & plays, not what I play it on.  I play on my ipad, phone, ps3, 360, pc... I don't require a cab... & many pinheads out there aren't much different than me & we aren't going anywhere.  Not to mention that there might be some desktop users out there who would love to have a cab but don't have thousands in spending cash to burn on one, or maybe just don't have the time to deal with one.  & you are telling all those people that they are playing crap pinball because they don't have a small fortune to spend?  Shame on you.  We are trying to attract members to here, not push them away by telling them that VP sucks if you don't have a cab.  As long as people keep making desktop tables, they will get downloaded.