3889 replies to this topic

[Shockman]

sliderpoint,

If the collection is a bunch of lights on the table or something like that, then that would make since. Where it would go wrong is for another intention and an important one. Say you built a single structure out of a few walls, a light and a primitive. The way it is allows you to treat it as one object as far as alignment at least and takes an extra effort to destroy it. It's the best and only form of grouping we have.

Edited by Shockman, 08 March 2015 - 05:23 PM.

[unclewilly]

After using the editor for a bit, I would like to see the select tool function be reversed.  I would like it to select the object by default and then SHIFT+Click would select the collection.   Does anyone think that as well?
 
 
@Dark
If you have some time, I'd like to try that.  Send me a PM if you get it done.  Thanks!
 
 
-Mike

I think that would be better also as a lot of my lights need individual intensity settings and its sometimes tedious selecting each individually

[sliderpoint]

sliderpoint,

If the collection is a bunch of lights on the table or something like that, then that would make since. Where it would go wrong is for another intention and an important one. Say you built a single structure out of a few walls, a light and a primitive. The way it is allows you to treat it as one object as far as alignment at least and takes an extra effort to destroy it. It's the best and only form of grouping we have.

 

 

I'm not sure how the would go wrong?  You can still lock those objects and you can still shift+click to select the collection.  I would think that you would be aware if you were wanting to select that whole collection.  I'm finding like for Lights and collections that were used for Hit sounds/scripting functions (all rubbers, dividers, etc.) that when I am zoomed in to edit/move one object, I'm not initially aware that I have selected an entire collection of objects.  

 

-Mike

 

 

@Dark,

Thanks, I'll try it out!

Edited by sliderpoint, 08 March 2015 - 06:00 PM.

[Shockman]

I don't understand that UW. If they have to be set individually, they have to be selected individually. The elements don't have to be grouped. The whole point of grouping is to treat them as one in some form or another.

 

A group should not exist unless they share some common settings. Lights that have different intensity settings are probably going to have nothing in common. Not size, shape, falloff, nothing. And if they do have something, like coming on at the same time, that is not an editor function and the script routine would be the same anyway.

 

So common settings, or orientation in relationship to each other. Sorry, but it makes no sense to me to break up a group that easily. It could even happen accidentally if that easy.

 

Put another way. When grouped, the group is not special. Selecting a single element of it is the special thing. 

 

Would it even work? Say you wanted to select more than one element of the group. Click on one, then what are you going to do? Shift and click on all the rest you want selected. So what is the function of a shift click? a group or a single element? Can't be both.

Edited by Shockman, 08 March 2015 - 06:37 PM.

[sliderpoint]

You seem to be forgetting about the primary use of collections prior to VP10 which was for scripting functions.  VP10 has added functions of the selection, but I don't think it will take away from they way they were used in the past.

 

I see your point about selecting multiple objects.  And that brings up a point that someone earlier mentioned.  Most apps use CTRL+Scroll for zoom and CTRL+Click is to select multiple objects.  VP uses CTRL+click for zooming so you lose that as an option to select multiple objects, which is what my recommendation would be (so that is functions more like every other windows app). That might be more changes than the Devs want to look into at this point.

 

-Mike

[fuzzel]

I changed the selection of elements which are part of a collection as some of you have suggested before. If you left click on one element it gets selected as usual. If you haven't selected anything and then you do a shift+left click on a collection all elements of that collection are selected.

[gtxjoe]

Both approaches are already available:

Collection with "Group objects together" not checked - items are associated together but when clicked on are selected individually. From the script you can easily apply changes, as we have done in VP9

Collection with "Group objects together" checked - items associated together and when clicked are selected together.  Shift-click to select an individual item.  From the script and the Editor,  you can easily apply changes

So check/uncheck the "Group objects together" as needed

 

Shockman - good point on not inverting the logic of selecting individual items in a group.  If single click selected only 1 item, and shift-click selected group, there would be no way to select 2 items from the group, since a shift click would select all items...  

 

Looks like fuzzel has a solution... shift-click with nothing previously selected will select the collection.  Can't wait to try it

Edited by gtxjoe, 08 March 2015 - 07:10 PM.

[fuzzel]

and because I'm on this key handling I've added support for the ctrl+mouse wheel zooming thing too

[fuzzel]

and rev1821 is up:

 

- add support for zooming in/out by ctrl+mouse wheel
- shift-left mouse click selects all elements of the collection if no other element was selected before.
- only update gate wire VB if necessary
- tiny optimization of walls, wall-slingshots,flashers and light shapes
 

[sliderpoint]

Wow, Fuzzel, busting this stuff out!

@Dark, That new ramp worked like a champ thanks!

 

 

rev1821.  I seem to have lost the images on the tops of walls...  

EDIT: a little early to say that.  Something is different but they work fine on the default table so I'll figure that out.

Edited by sliderpoint, 08 March 2015 - 07:55 PM.

[jimmyfingers]

The wall images are indeed broken in this latest revision (at least with my Firepower VP10 mod / update):

 

rev1821:

 Capture of FP broken wall images in rev1821.PNG   668.3KB   16 downloads

 

rev1812:

 Capture of FP working wall images in rev1812.PNG   677.5KB   17 downloads

 

Edited by jimmyfingers, 08 March 2015 - 08:20 PM.

[Shockman]

So a simple click on a grouped element is going to temporally un group it?

 

Then can we have a lock group function to exclude it from this strange nomenclature. 

 

If you are going to be selecting a few elements you are going to have to put a finger on the shift key sooner or later.

 

Grouping has been reduced to not even multi-select, but multi-select possible.

Edited by Shockman, 08 March 2015 - 09:59 PM.

[fuzzel]

So a simple click on a grouped element is going to temporally un group it?

 

Then can we have a lock group function to exclude it from this strange nomenclature. 

 

If you are going to be selecting a few elements you are going to have to put a finger on the shift key sooner or later.

 

Grouping has been reduced to not even multi-select, but multi-select possible.

Yes and no.  If you click on an element which is part of a collection you get just the element as it wouldn't be part of a collection the element is still part of the collection though. shift+left click behaves as usual only if you didn't select anything (or just the table) then a shift+left click will multi-select all elements of the collection.

I think this is much better because you have to tweak single elements much more often than the entire collection but if you have to then you can select all members of the collection.

 

I guess something went wrong with the optimization of the walls, will be fixed in the next build.

Edited by fuzzel, 08 March 2015 - 10:17 PM.

[Shockman]

I'll never be convinced that the normal way of selecting when applied to a group should break up that group. 

Edited by Shockman, 08 March 2015 - 10:20 PM.

[fuzzel]

The new grouping feature is just a helper that you don't have to multi-select all elements of interest manually. Actually you have much more freedom in selecting different elements manually now and only if you need the entire group you shift+click on member of the group and get the entire group. Multi-selecting other elements which are not part of the collection won't break the collection.

[Shockman]

Nothing has changed. It is as it was. It's just that a strange nomenclature has taken over.

 

No worry. I can adapt to treating groups as though they are not groups, unless I do something special. Apparently easier than others can adapt to treating groups as though they are groups, unless they do something special. 

[Shockman]

It's just that treating elements as a collection or not is one thing. It does not matter the manor of selection. But treating a group as a group is another. The purpose of creating a group as a group as opposed to just another element of a collection would be to keep for example a few walls that make up a bridge or tunnel together. I understand they can still be used as a group, but surely you can understand there is now something whack about the method. I still think we should have a lock because anyway you cut it, you are going out of your way to treat a group as a group. You could argue that it is not far out of your way, and I would agree, but that's my point about keeping logical nomenclature too.

Edited by Shockman, 08 March 2015 - 11:22 PM.

[vampirolatino2]

and because I'm on this key handling I've added support for the ctrl+mouse wheel zooming thing too

 

oh yes, amen to that lol ... but is better Alt+ mouse wheel because I move from PS/AI and my hands automaticaly go to those keys lol but this is good. THANKS!

[randr]

Noticed newest build caused some materials to not apply? Mainly walls had to make alpha for it to show else was not visible? Odd.

[freneticamnesic]

Noticed newest build caused some materials to not apply? Mainly walls had to make alpha for it to show else was not visible? Odd.

 

Yea newest build is not good, can't see tops of walls