1394 replies to this topic

[DJRobX]

If a fix breaks a few unreleased tables, but makes things more consistent and maintainable for the developers of VP going forward, then I think consistency of the core engine needs to be the priority. 

[LoadedWeapon]

Well r783 breaks most of my fav tables most are night mods and My Main one STTNG... I just can't have that lol... Not sure what needs to be done cause I dont understand all of the changes but r782 is where it started..

Never had any problems untill then r780 runs perfect for me..

Edited by LoadedWeapon, 12 December 2013 - 12:58 AM.

[Noah Fentz]

I've been thinking it may be time to release a 916 final version from a revision of choice that maintains the most compatibility with existing tables, and moving development forward as VP10. It's getting awfully hard for newer members to know which version to use when tables have been released as VP 916 tables, and there is no 916. Yet, if they download the latest beta, as instructed in many places, these purported 916 tables don't work then, either.

Can we please do that, and I'll set up sections for VP 10 beta tables?

Thank you!

[toxie]

Well r783 breaks most of my fav tables most are night mods and My Main one STTNG... I just can't have that lol... Not sure what needs to be done cause I dont understand all of the changes but r782 is where it started..

Never had any problems untill then r780 runs perfect for me..

 

could you please list all tables with problems? so that i can have a look at it..

I've been thinking it may be time to release a 916 final version from a revision of choice that maintains the most compatibility with existing tables, and moving development forward as VP10. It's getting awfully hard for newer members to know which version to use when tables have been released as VP 916 tables, and there is no 916. Yet, if they download the latest beta, as instructed in many places, these purported 916 tables don't work then, either.
 

 

We're working on that.. It's just about ironing out bugs and then there will be a 9.2.0 (hopefully before christmas)..

[Noah Fentz]

Will 9.2.0 maintain the most compatibility with tables made before '916'?

I feel this is very important.

I'll be happy to organize the download section accordingly.

[fuzzel]

Yes the 9.2 should be backward compatible to older versions.

[Noah Fentz]

Thanks, guys. Your efforts are greatly appreciated ... and truly awesome!

[toxie]

I personally test a lot on my cab (with ~170 tables) and try to have em all compatible with the most recent version (of course i can only test so much, so..)

[DJRobX]

> could you please list all tables with problems? so that i can have a look at it..

 

The latest Cirqus Voltaire has some black streaks along the right side, and through the ringmaster when its at its lowest point.   It's fine on build 780.     In 783 it doesn't matter whether I set RU or RO or neither, it looks the same. 

 

> I've been thinking it may be time to release a 916 final version from a revision of choice that maintains the most compatibility with existing tables, and moving development forward as VP10. It

 

Let's give them a little more time to figure out the best solution to this rendering issue.   I think they're very close to having it right. 

[LoadedWeapon]

Sorry really wish I had more time to test. But try the nm tables I tested a few CV head and sttng cannon lights mest up. Johnny mnemonic near the bumpers.. can't rem the other I will try to look at some more tonight I'm already back at work
Thank you!

Edited by LoadedWeapon, 12 December 2013 - 11:47 AM.

[toxie]

The CV issue will be sorted out (as Koadic said), the NM versions are most likely the same issue (layer priorities not setup and/or all the same height) and should hopefully be easily updateable by the authors.

 

Although i just had one additional idea for a "fix", i'll try that one later today in the evening (i hope, currently a bit busy days)..

[TedB]

 I'll set up sections for VP 10 beta tables?

 

The VP development process is different from other projects I have seen. Every revision of VP is published immediately and available to the public - kudos to koadic btw .

A lot of table authors are using and creating content with the latest released beta software.

I think that is great and keeps the community, table authors and VP devs motivated. The devs receive almost immediate feedback and code can be improved in a very efficient and incremental way.

 

For newbies that can indeed be very confusing and apparently table authors just a take leap of faith but things might break during the development. That is what beta software is all about..

 

Would it be better to create a VP development forum and download section that will not be visible for the general public? Who gets access could be decided by the VP devs  -  then you can be sure folks that have access realize the used VP version is beta software and the tables created are test tables. As long as there is no official release the created tables for that release can be quarantined and will be fully available for download after an official release is made.   

 

Just my two cents

[SpykeDaddy]

Personally, I think it's wonderful to be able to troll and watch the dev process. It helps me with troubleshooting and making decisions around whether to upgrade to a new release or not. Anything that happens or breaks, I don't ask for help because I know the risks. If I want stable tables, I'd stay with the official release and not pull the new 916 tables into my cabinet. I think all of you are very clear about this being BETA.

 

I have a great appreciation for what the devs are doing and am very patient and never will complain about progress or speed because I see all the interaction in these forums. I think hiding things might be detrimental. The value of this forum is that everything is wide open. You may not see the 100's of people trolling, but we are. ;-)

 

I built a very nice cabinet, from scratch, with my 14 year old son just from reviewing and searching these forums. If you could believe it, I never asked ONE question. That's how awesome you guys are in posting information, tips, etc.

 

Keep up the great work and I'm just amazing by the output of this community. Can I hire some of you guys into my IT department?

[teppotee]

Heh... never knew I was abusing a bug in my mods I have always had RO/RU turned on and just unchecked the "normal 3d stereo" for the flashers / alpha GI because I thought that's the correct way. In my setup I never noticed any difference between the 2 values anyway. However I don't think the alpha GI ramps were set at the same height... I got drawing order problems otherwise.

 

I guess a lot has happened during last weeks (been traveling so haven't really read these in detail). I don't really have much interest in going through old mod's again although I understand that it would be nice to get a unified way of working without the current confusion with different RU/RO combinations. At least I won't make any changes before a final and correct way has been defined. 

[TedB]

If I want stable tables, I'd stay with the official release and not pull the new 916 tables into my cabinet. I think all of you are very clear about this being BETA.

 

You are probably right, but for non-technical newbies that might be very different and I have seen posts from table authors being more careful with releases now they realize things can change fundamentally.
I still think a separate development and download section might be helpful - doesn't have to be hidden - test tables could then be accompanied with a warning before downloading.

[unclewilly]

I'll hold off on doing the lighting on monster bash till a 9.2 release

[toxie]

Heh... never knew I was abusing a bug in my mods I have always had RO/RU turned on and just unchecked the "normal 3d stereo" for the flashers / alpha GI because I thought that's the correct way. In my setup I never noticed any difference between the 2 values anyway. However I don't think the alpha GI ramps were set at the same height... I got drawing order problems otherwise.

 

You were perfectly right doing so.. Unfortunately this turned out to be a problem on some setups due to this exploit..

As said, i'll look into this one more idea i have, and otherwise i'll guess we have to stick with the current behavior as it seems to be the best tradeoff..

[bodydump]

Maybe we need a ramp abusers support group.

"Hi, my name is Tom and I abuse ramps"

The first step is admitting you have a problem

[DJRobX]

Would it be better to create a VP development forum and download section that will not be visible for the general public? Who gets access could be decided by the VP devs  -  then you can be sure folks that have access realize the used VP version is beta software and the tables created are test tables. As long as there is no official release the created tables for that release can be quarantined and will be fully available for download after an official release is made.   

 

 

I would much prefer to keep development discussions and download sections open to anyone interested in participating in the "bleeding edge" of VP.    That's more in the spirit of an open-source project.   I think most people understand what "Beta" quality software is.   Tables that require a beta VP should just be kept in a separate place, so people looking for a stable experience can find older versions that are compatible with the public release more easily.      For what it's worth though, most of the tables I tried that were labelled "916" actually worked just fine on my 915 setup before I decided to start playing with the beta.

Edited by DJRobX, 12 December 2013 - 05:18 PM.

[melon]

I think it would be great to have a flasher/light component. Now we are using ramps for the GI and flashers, Wouldn't it be better to have a specific component to do this? and leave the ramps as they are now. That component would be square and we could change the image and/or opacity just like we're doing right now.