202 replies to this topic

[humid]

This is not a fun conflict to try to mediate, but I don't feel either of you should be getting so serious about opinions on realistic flippers.....or what constitutes "best". Watching most of the videos of T2 it's apparent that the ball does run smoothly through the inlanes to flippers. This shows it, but not much on flipper passes.


http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

The ball weight on Groni's MM does feel tighter in response, but T2 has more visual jiggle on impact. IMO there isn't much 'wrong' about either of your talents at creating heightened feel. Both have delivered very impressive gameplay. You all deserve the praise you receive, and you both should try to avoid making statements that include 'best'.

We are a fraternity of creative hobbyists. And the competition should always be friendly. When Steve and Black locked horns over their issues the community felt a pang of 'why did that have to happen?' I hope you both will reflect on the bigger picture and call it a draw.

[Noah Fentz]

GRONI, since you continue to declare they are 'wrong' instead of being constructive and offering suggestions, you have become part of the problem, not the solution.

I've played your tables, and your flippers are WAY off how real flippers truly behave, so just quit posting in this topic, if you have nothing constructive to say.

[el_timbo]

Its actually scary how CLOSE this thing is to the ambience and 'feel' the real machine has. The game i play (and have played there for YEARS) is in a darker area, and this thing is as close as your ever going to get, apart from standing at the real machine feeding in credits. I feel that i know this game quite well, and as far as a computer simulation goes, this is IT.

el_timbo

[Debbus]

GRONI, since you continue to declare they are 'wrong' instead of being constructive and offering suggestions, you have become part of the problem, not the solution.

I've played your tables, and your flippers are WAY off how real flippers truly behave, so just quit posting in this topic, if you have nothing constructive to say.

Why this discussion? I think every table maker has his own ideas, and makes it, the way they want to play it.
I like to play this table, and maybe the flippers are not behave as real ones, but this is a simulation, not a real machine.
Thanx again for the work, and Groni if you don't like the table how it plays, why don't you recreate it yourself?
Attack from Mars, Funhouse are also 2 versions, and they play also very different.
Have a nice Easter!

[njamont]

indeed let everyone make they are own tables with there own settings and people who complain , adjust them for your own use.

is anyone working on a FS version? hopefully noah and UR will let it?

[EalaDubhSidhe]

No VP flippers are ever going to properly compensate for how the balls bounce off or connect with each other; that's an entirely seperate branch of the engine physics over which we have no control, and it's well-known that the momentum transfer between ball collisions is wildly exaggerated within VP. Captive ball strikes demonstrate this all too well.

It sounds to me like you've given them the moon, and some people are asking for the sun...

[rossicomputers]

Anyone have your own way to make the table and satisfy with that...

Doesn't matter if the flipper is like this or that...

Everything comes from Noah and UR are superb for me...

No complains about somebody else job...

Do it your own......

That is it...

Rossi

[TedB]

After reading all the comments I had to try this one to see what the fuss is all about. Had a couple of games and really enjoyed the table.
I like the flipper settings, it "feels" more real than the usual settings. On a real table there is also a bouncy effect and it is nice to see that effect digitalized.
I'm not a very good pinball player so am not an expert but it seems to me the settings doesn't make it really harder, just different. As far as I can tell I can hit any target as easy (read: hard) as other settings.

I lke the dark look and no stutter at all! Great job to you both, you have created an instant favorite. Thanks!

[Wizards_Hat]

Many thanks for making & sharing this table - I'm really very impressed by the skills some people have with these table recreations, it's certainly something I know I couldn't get close to.

Thanks again guys for taking the time & effort to do this one.

Regards,
Dan.

[The Loafer]

Tried it last night, I won't go into the any debate on the flippers, because that's all subjective to one's own interpretation of what is real anyway and the limitations of the engine. I'll just say "wow, is this table every freakin' fun to play, the playability is excellent, many thanks guys for this great release". Everyone has their own interpretation of what constitutes "real", imho debating that in the authors release thread is lacking in tact.

Edited by The Loafer, 03 April 2010 - 02:12 PM.

[lettuce]

All this talk of flippers not acting as they should do is all BS, as i bet if you stuck 2 Terminator 2 machine next to each other, they would not play identically to each other would they?, so the same thing can be said for VP!. I was thinking that it would be good that if all tables used the same flipper settings, but then i thought that this isnt true to really machines, every machine plays different and has different feel to the flippers, even pinball tables that are the same machine play different from one another, you'll never get 2 machines that play identical to each other even if they are from the same production line, end of!

Edited by lettuce, 03 April 2010 - 02:22 PM.

[billyrjse]

Gentlemen,

Both the work of Noah and Groni are excellent. No doubt you were the ones that get closer to the real physics. I have experience in real pins, I play sometimes in a club with more than 100 pinball machines near my house (yes, I'm a luck guy )... so I think I can talk about. Each table has its particular gameplay/physics. No pinball machine plays exactly like another although the same title, depending on conditions of the machine. And about VP… we can’t forget it’s limitations.

I see a positive point in this whole discussion... the pursuit of excellence in emulation. That's great!!! And I believe that one day you bright and talented recreators will reach the perfection. In my opinion, is very close.

I want to thank you all for the effort, dedication and concern of you to give your best in the construction of these wonderful tables.

[GRONI]

GRONI, since you continue to declare they are 'wrong' instead of being constructive and offering suggestions, you have become part of the problem, not the solution.

I've played your tables, and your flippers are WAY off how real flippers truly behave, so just quit posting in this topic, if you have nothing constructive to say.

Nope I havent, cause you don´t even realize what I´m trying to tell you....Praise your table to the sky and forget the rest about you...

BTW....this was my last post in this topic......forum......

[rossicomputers]

Groni,

Why this happening....??

Two great artiists.... doing this???????


Come on Groni....

Don't be rude... and come back..


We love your recreations and your job, to do the best for this comunity...


We all realy apreciate your job...

Don't be a fool...

Rossi

[gear323]

I finally got a chance to try this one out. First I want to say, Great F'ing job guys!

This table is really fun to play. My computer is too darn slow to play VP9 tables correctly so I can't judge the flipper settings even if I wanted to . I have a 1/4 second delay each time I press the flippers as I do with all VP9 tables and I get choppy video.

Criticism that is just my personal preference. I know you can't make everyone happy

To me some things about the table seem to be over exaggerated. I'm going to post them but please don't take this the wrong way. I really like the table allot.

1. The cannon motor sound. (maybe I just need to open the coin door and raise the volume of rom and then lower my speakers and that wound fix it? I'll try that in a few minutes. That will lower my other sounds which i'm not sure I want but i'll try it. At my current settings the cannon motor seems so loud.

2. The lighting. The lighting effects on this table are awesome but it seems too drastic. For me, I'd appreciate these great lighting effects if they were a little more subtle. In order to make them more subtle, the lighting of the table would have to brighter. This is probably mostly personal preference since I'm not usually a fan of the @ night tables. The arcades by me were usually dim but not this dark. Once there is a full screen version, I'll be very interested to see what these dark settings look like on my 52" TV in the living room.

That's all from me. Great work guys. Now I just need to upgrade my computer so I can actually play VP9 correctly

Edited by gear323, 03 April 2010 - 05:00 PM.

[Noah Fentz]

I try to balance the sounds as best I can. It seems some systems play the ROM sounds at varying volumes on various systems. The motor IS a bit loud, though. I used actual footage of the gun test for the audio.

Try increasing the ROM volume, and you should be good. If not, you can export the sound and change the volume level in any audio editor and reimport it.

[mars007]

Noah ...
Good pictures on profile...

[gear323]

I try to balance the sounds as best I can. It seems some systems play the ROM sounds at varying volumes on various systems. The motor IS a bit loud, though. I used actual footage of the gun test for the audio.

Try increasing the ROM volume, and you should be good. If not, you can export the sound and change the volume level in any audio editor and reimport it.

Thanks for the suggestion Noah! I raised my rom volume as far as I could without getting crackly sounds and lowered my speaker volume. it is much better. I think I am going to use your other suggestion though and modify the volume level of this sound though since now the other sounds seem too low.

I need a new computer now!!!!!!!

It looks like you guys are helping the economy since I'm now ordering parts for my new computer. I can't take it anymore! goodbye old computer, time to put you in my mame cab!

(i'm waiting to see what David Foley and Black come up with before I build a pinball cab ) I'm hoping that they have some rom support in FP and have head tracking or maybe we can take advantage of these new 3d monitors. Holding off is getting harder and harder with all of these great releases though!

Edited by gear323, 03 April 2010 - 05:46 PM.

[ANDROID]

Edited for stupidity!!
I downloaded both, T2 and HS2 Getaway at the same time. I unzipped HS2 first and mixed up the two threads, when I posted b4. They both play great. I was so deadset on getting a pincab, but now I'm thinking the REAL thing! even if its an em. I seen a Target Alpha I have my eye on...Sweet! if I could get one.

Edited by ANDROID, 07 April 2010 - 05:00 AM.

[lettuce]

Dont forget guys this table is still very much work in progress, noah didnt have to release this 'final beta' version, so this will only get better and better when the updates come