124 replies to this topic

[rickh]

Rick,

Initially I also thought it was ~220KHZ, but it's only 220Hz.

Yeah, you are right.  I wonder where that noise is coming from?

[Brer Frog]

Here's the supply I ordered. I noticed a lot of the wall wart supplies were for powering LED strip lighting

https://www.amazon.c...0?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Could the 12V supply be using low frequency switching?

[Brer Frog]

Finally connected the TPA3116D2 2.1 amplifier to the new 24V 4A power supply, along with the 2" backbox speakers. Also used a small bookshelf speaker for the woofer. Everything sounds good, especially the bookshelf woofer. The weak link is the 2" speakers, but maybe I'm driving them too hard. Later I'll connect the other bookshelf speaker & use them as a stereo pair without a woofer & crank up the volume.

 

The output of the 24V supply with no load shows a 18mV ripple voltage at about 155Hz.

 IMG_2931C_24V PS.jpg   114.66KB   12 downloads

 

It looks different with higher frequency noise when connected to the amplifier.

 

[Brer Frog]

I connected the TPA3116D2 2.1 amp to a pair of bookshelf speakers but no subwoofer because I didn't have one. Then played some pinball & music & thought it sounded OK. I'm still not sure if the harshness or crispness I'm hearing is due to brightness from the increased audio frequency range compared to the cheap PC speakers I'm used to hearing, or from amp/power supply noise, My high frequency hearing is not what it used to be so it's difficult to make a fair assessment on what is happening.

[rickh]

Here's the supply I ordered. I noticed a lot of the wall wart supplies were for powering LED strip lighting

https://www.amazon.c...0?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Could the 12V supply be using low frequency switching?

Mike, 

Sorry for the delay.  I doubt that a low frequency noise is being generated from a switching PSU.  Regarding those barrel connectors, they are known by Engineering weenies as "Coaxial Power Connectors".  They come in a plethora of sizes, shapes and standards.  As you have already experienced they have three competing standards making interchangeability frustrating at best.  Please refer to: https://en.wikipedia...power_connector

 

 

Rick

[Brer Frog]

I was trying the amp & 24V supply in the mini-cab I'm working on & had no sound. The power supply was not getting power because of a bad power cord. It was working but now it's not. I had a spare cord so all is good for now. What the heck is going on - the other amp had a bad audio cable & this one has a bad power supply cable.

[rickh]

I was trying the amp & 24V supply in the mini-cab I'm working on & had no sound. The power supply was not getting power because of a bad power cord. It was working but now it's not. I had a spare cord so all is good for now. What the heck is going on - the other amp had a bad audio cable & this one has a bad power supply cable.

I dunno, bad Jue jue?  

[fwiler]

Two things.

 

Has anyone tried just a small bass shaker like Dayton Audio TT25 instead of a full range exciter?  I would think that something that produces more shake than sound would do better for vibrating the cabinet.

 

Has anyone tried virtual surround software through multiple speakers?  I know in games and movies in the past, it seemed to work surprisingly well with 2 channel source.  

Just like the dolby and dts virtual sounds on receivers.  Not sure how it would do in this situation because I don't know how the software interprets the sound.  Probably not nearly as good as VP, but it would work with any pinball game.

[RustyCardores]

Two things.

 

Has anyone tried just a small bass shaker like Dayton Audio TT25 instead of a full range exciter?  I would think that something that produces more shake than sound would do better for vibrating the cabinet.

 

Has anyone tried virtual surround software through multiple speakers?  I know in games and movies in the past, it seemed to work surprisingly well with 2 channel source.  

Just like the dolby and dts virtual sounds on receivers.  Not sure how it would do in this situation because I don't know how the software interprets the sound.  Probably not nearly as good as VP, but it would work with any pinball game.

 

I have two in my cab along with regular exciters (using vPX 10.4 and tables coded for surround) and they are much of a muchness really. If anything, I think the regular exciters are better, plus their surface flush mounting is so much easier.

 

I also run a 30hz shaker pulse in some tables and the exciter under my lockdown provides more than enough shake effect.

 

re speakers.... An audio sub on mechanicals helps balance tone, but I see no reason to use speakers when the exciters do the audio job so well plus provide feedback, while being compact and flush mountable straight to the wall of the cab. 

Edited by RustyCardores, 01 November 2017 - 02:33 AM.

[fwiler]

 

Two things.

 

Has anyone tried just a small bass shaker like Dayton Audio TT25 instead of a full range exciter?  I would think that something that produces more shake than sound would do better for vibrating the cabinet.

 

Has anyone tried virtual surround software through multiple speakers?  I know in games and movies in the past, it seemed to work surprisingly well with 2 channel source.  

Just like the dolby and dts virtual sounds on receivers.  Not sure how it would do in this situation because I don't know how the software interprets the sound.  Probably not nearly as good as VP, but it would work with any pinball game.

 

I have two in my cab along with regular exciters (using vPX 10.4 and tables coded for surround) and they are much of a muchness really. If anything, I think the regular exciters are better, plus their surface flush mounting is so much easier.

 

I also run a 30hz shaker pulse in some tables and the exciter under my lockdown provides more than enough shake effect.

 

re speakers.... An audio sub on mechanicals helps balance tone, but I see no reason to use speakers when the exciters do the audio job so well plus provide feedback, while being compact and flush mountable straight to the wall of the cab. 

 

When I said speakers, I meant exciters.  So the virtual sound would direct the sound to multiple exciters instead of relying on the coding in vpx 10.4

 

And when you say no reason for speakers, do you not use any speakers by the backglass for sound and just rely on exciters?

[RustyCardores]

 

 

Two things.

 

Has anyone tried just a small bass shaker like Dayton Audio TT25 instead of a full range exciter?  I would think that something that produces more shake than sound would do better for vibrating the cabinet.

 

Has anyone tried virtual surround software through multiple speakers?  I know in games and movies in the past, it seemed to work surprisingly well with 2 channel source.  

Just like the dolby and dts virtual sounds on receivers.  Not sure how it would do in this situation because I don't know how the software interprets the sound.  Probably not nearly as good as VP, but it would work with any pinball game.

 

I have two in my cab along with regular exciters (using vPX 10.4 and tables coded for surround) and they are much of a muchness really. If anything, I think the regular exciters are better, plus their surface flush mounting is so much easier.

 

I also run a 30hz shaker pulse in some tables and the exciter under my lockdown provides more than enough shake effect.

 

re speakers.... An audio sub on mechanicals helps balance tone, but I see no reason to use speakers when the exciters do the audio job so well plus provide feedback, while being compact and flush mountable straight to the wall of the cab. 

 

When I said speakers, I meant exciters.  So the virtual sound would direct the sound to multiple exciters instead of relying on the coding in vpx 10.4

 

And when you say no reason for speakers, do you not use any speakers by the backglass for sound and just rely on exciters?

 

 

The coding in 10.4 directs the sound to playfield exciters(and audio sub) and backglass speakers & sub via Windows 7.1

 

If you are on facebook, you will find a bunch of configuration diagrams in our group here.... https://www.facebook...56819024597114/

 

As you will see, there are a number of ways it can be configured.

[Brer Frog]

Rick, Rusty, et al -

 

What do you think of this for a woofer for a mini-cab?

https://www.parts-ex...woofer--292-426

 

Seems to be highly rated & has a lot of reviews. IOW it must be a popular speaker. I could spend more but will it make a difference in a pinball cabinet?

 

Or maybe this one. The freq response does go lower, but how low is needed for pinball?

https://www.parts-ex...woofer--295-305

Edited by Brer Frog, 03 November 2017 - 12:06 PM.

[fwiler]

Rick, Rusty, et al -

 

What do you think of this for a woofer for a mini-cab?

https://www.parts-ex...woofer--292-426

 

Seems to be highly rated & has a lot of reviews. IOW it must be a popular speaker. I could spend more but will it make a difference in a pinball cabinet?

 

Or maybe this one. The freq response does go lower, but how low is needed for pinball?

https://www.parts-ex...woofer--295-305

 

I've used the Dayton Audio one in a .15 cu.ft. box with 25w.  It works really good and surprising for the small size.

If you are doing free air, then I would pick the GRS.  Free air is susceptible to too many variables for anyone to say if it will be good or not.

[Brer Frog]

I've seen VP cabinet builds were people make woofer enclosures. Others just cut a hole in the bottom of the cab & face the woofer downward, which is what I planned on. I could build a box over it but not sure if that's worth doing.

[STV]

I did three of these smaller subs.  No box, I think they sound great.  BG sub is in a hole facing the floor.   The side and rear are mounted on cross braces above their exciters.  

Visaton W100S-4 4" Woofer with Treated Paper Cone 4 Ohm

[Brer Frog]

I did three of these smaller subs.  No box, I think they sound great.  BG sub is in a hole facing the floor.   The side and rear are mounted on cross braces above their exciters.  

Visaton W100S-4 4" Woofer with Treated Paper Cone 4 Ohm

 

Does that mean 2 side & 1 rear 4" woofers? Plus the BG one facing the floor? If so, what make/model is the BG woofer?

 

What are you using for exciters?

[rickh]

Mike,

 

I think both woofers are nice.  If you want to blast, make sure you have a 24VDC amplifier.  

 

Regards,

 

Rick

Mike,

 

In response to the woofer enclosures, many (not all) modern car woofers do not lend themselves to tuned enclosures.  However the two your proposed both do.  If you wish to build an enclosure, check out this calculator:

https://www.diyaudio...erBoxEnclosure/

 

After many sleepless nights, I have fianlly got my 3D printer back from the dead after a literal meltdown.  If you need a tuned port let me know and I'll print one for you.

 

 

Rick

[Brer Frog]

Rick,

 

I'm using the TPA3116D2 2.1 channel amp that you mentioned, along with a 24V power supply. I don't really need to blast, just want to make sure I use a woofer that's going to sound decent for my budget build mini-cab. Consequently I don't plan on using a woofer enclosure. It's a budget build just as a matter of principle. But using 2 amps, a woofer, & possibly a couple exciters is throwing my cheap-as-possible concept out the window.

Edited by Brer Frog, 07 November 2017 - 09:26 AM.

[STV]

 

 

I did three of these smaller subs.  No box, I think they sound great.  BG sub is in a hole facing the floor.   The side and rear are mounted on cross braces above their exciters.  

Visaton W100S-4 4" Woofer with Treated Paper Cone 4 Ohm

 

Does that mean 2 side & 1 rear 4" woofers? Plus the BG one facing the floor? If so, what make/model is the BG woofer?

 

What are you using for exciters?

 

 

 

1 side, 1 rear, and 1 front (BG/ROM sounds) woofer.   The three are all the same identical speaker.   Keep in mind you generally only need a baby touch of bass in the rear and side channels for table noises...  The exciters are  DAEX30HESF-4   and they're great.   Three lepai LP-186HA amps.

 

This new development of using one woofer for all channels might be a good way to go but it's not clear to me how you'd then adjust the level of bass coming out those two table sound channels vs the BG channel.  Having the dials to adjust each individually right up there inside the coin door seems like a necessary thing now that I can do it.  Now that they're "set" I don't need to muck with it too much but I do on occasion twiddle around with things. 

[RustyCardores]

 

 

I did three of these smaller subs.  No box, I think they sound great.  BG sub is in a hole facing the floor.   The side and rear are mounted on cross braces above their exciters.  
Visaton W100S-4 4" Woofer with Treated Paper Cone 4 Ohm

 
Does that mean 2 side & 1 rear 4" woofers? Plus the BG one facing the floor? If so, what make/model is the BG woofer?
 
What are you using for exciters?
 

 
 
1 side, 1 rear, and 1 front (BG/ROM sounds) woofer.   The three are all the same identical speaker.   Keep in mind you generally only need a baby touch of bass in the rear and side channels for table noises...  The exciters are  DAEX30HESF-4   and they're great.   Three lepai LP-186HA amps.
 
This new development of using one woofer for all channels might be a good way to go but it's not clear to me how you'd then adjust the level of bass coming out those two table sound channels vs the BG channel.  Having the dials to adjust each individually right up there inside the coin door seems like a necessary thing now that I can do it.  Now that they're "set" I don't need to muck with it too much but I do on occasion twiddle around with things. 

I have the three subs and love the extra control I have with adjustments available for each, especially when the front sub is actually another exciter under the lockdown rather than an audio sub.

This has always provided me with additional tactile feel, but it really comes into its own with the shaker tone that I have recently introduced to some tables.


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