285 replies to this topic

[Rappelbox]

I will do a group buy for Europe so anyone interested can pm me
If everything works how I expect it, there will be also ready soldered boards!

Greets,
Dom

[boiydiego]

yes but what will it cost the total package ??

[Rappelbox]

yes but what will it cost the total package ??

You mean me?
I can only estimate atm, so you will not get a qualified answer from me for now, sorry.

Depending on how fast I can put a package together, next week will follow more

Greets,
Dom

[mjr]

one of each board for me. and yes it can be shipped in those bubbled envelopes, china does it all the time and it always arrive complete... from that far lol.

or thinking better ... I have a lot's of spare parts, that I can manage to do a few boards complete with parts for sale.... if anyone is interested!

 

Great - I put you down for one each (main, power, and chime).  If you do want me to bump that up to multiple copies of any of them, just let me know.

[vampirolatino2]

Yes, put me down to 5 (in total) then. 2 extras of main and power.

2x main

2x power

1x chime

 

this will be great, thanks!

[jreising326]

Count me in for the same as Vampirolatino:

 

2X Main

2X Power

1X chime

 

This will save me from further troubleshooting on my own driver board that is causing me some grief!  I'll post another post regarding that issue...

 

Thanks!

 

Joe

[mjr]

Yes, put me down to 5 (in total) then. 2 extras of main and power.

2x main

2x power

1x chime

 

this will be great, thanks!

 

Okay, got it!

 

 

Count me in for the same as Vampirolatino:

 

2X Main

2X Power

1X chime

 

Done!

[thedutchlander]

Hi. MJR first off all thank you for putting in time for designing and making this great controller available for the pinball community. I had once 4 good titled pinball machines but as other things were more important I let them go 10 years ago. last week i revisited the pinball world and saw how far the virtual pinball machines have come (tried vp on a pc after i sold the pins) and i got all exited again and i'm starting with planning to build my own virtual pin as I used to spend more time on the pin than in school LOL so my connection is very strong . The pinscape controller will be an excellent board to build my pin around. As i would like to put in actual flipper assy, knocker, slingshot assy and popbumpers (under the TV playfield) for making the experiece as good as possible. I can solder and read circuitery on a very basic level and if the boards are well documented on assambly and making it work i will try to build my own controller (prefferable already build, but that won't be an option). As i understand boards are in a final testing stage or are they already final to order at PCB maker?

 

while i'm at it, i have following question:

is it possible to rotate over 2 popbumpers through 1 signal, simulating 3,4,or more popbumper action? because i think 1 popbumper will not be fast enough for simulating close action multiple popbumpers.

 

thanks upfront.

[mjr]

As i understand boards are in a final testing stage or are they already final to order at PCB maker?

 

They're just about ready.  I fabricated a set of the first version and have been testing those.  They had a couple of bugs, so a second run is needed to fix the errors.  The plans on my site (http://mjrnet.org/pi...sion-board.html) have the bug fixes and are almost final.  Only small tweaks are expected at this point.

 

 

while i'm at it, i have following question:

is it possible to rotate over 2 popbumpers through 1 signal, simulating 3,4,or more popbumper action? because i think 1 popbumper will not be fast enough for simulating close action multiple popbumpers.

 

You're right - you'll definitely want several physical bumper devices for realistically fast action, as well as for accurate placement of the sound effects.  There are a couple of de facto standard configuration that people use, one with 4 devices devoted to bumpers and one with 6.  I like the the 6-device setup, which arranges three bumpers across the back of the playfield and three across the middle.  This gives you a pretty good approximation for all of the common locations for bumpers on a real table.

 

Regarding your specific question about putting multiple bumpers on one signal:  If I understand correctly, I think the answer is no, at least not without creating some extra electronics and software of your own.  But the good news is that there's really no reason you should need to (again, assuming I understand your goal correctly).  It sounds like you want to multiplex one output channel on the controller and connect it to several devices.  Is that right, and is your goal here to conserve output channels?  If so, and you use the expansion board, I'm pretty sure you won't have to worry about conserving outputs.  It has enough channels that you'll probably be trying to dream up new toys to use all the free channels.  If you set up what I think of as the "standard" configuration, with the main board and the MOSFET power board, you'll have a total of 65 outputs, 32 of which are for general-purpose high-power devices like bumpers.  My cab currently uses about 50 outputs, and it's practically stuffed to the gills - I'd have a hard time just physically fitting much more in there.  Hopefully the 65-output setup will be enough that your main constraint to adding toys becomes the amount of space in your cab (and of course your budget!).

Edited by mjr, 26 January 2016 - 06:39 AM.

[thedutchlander]

 

As i understand boards are in a final testing stage or are they already final to order at PCB maker?

 

They're just about ready.  I fabricated a set of the first version and have been testing those.  They had a couple of bugs, so a second run is needed to fix the errors.  The plans on my site (http://mjrnet.org/pi...sion-board.html) have the bug fixes and are almost final.  Only small tweaks are expected at this point.

 

 

while i'm at it, i have following question:

is it possible to rotate over 2 popbumpers through 1 signal, simulating 3,4,or more popbumper action? because i think 1 popbumper will not be fast enough for simulating close action multiple popbumpers.

 

You're right - you'll definitely want several physical bumper devices for realistically fast action, as well as for accurate placement of the sound effects.  There are a couple of de facto standard configuration that people use, one with 4 devices devoted to bumpers and one with 6.  I like the the 6-device setup, which arranges three bumpers across the back of the playfield and three across the middle.  This gives you a pretty good approximation for all of the common locations for bumpers on a real table.

 

Regarding your specific question about putting multiple bumpers on one signal:  If I understand correctly, I think the answer is no, at least not without creating some extra electronics and software of your own.  But the good news is that there's really no reason you should need to (again, assuming I understand your goal correctly).  It sounds like you want to multiplex one output channel on the controller and connect it to several devices.  Is that right, and is your goal here to conserve output channels?  If so, and you use the expansion board, I'm pretty sure you won't have to worry about conserving outputs.  It has enough channels that you'll probably be trying to dream up new toys to use all the free channels.  If you set up what I think of as the "standard" configuration, with the main board and the MOSFET power board, you'll have a total of 65 outputs, 32 of which are for general-purpose high-power devices like bumpers.  My cab currently uses about 50 outputs, and it's practically stuffed to the gills - I'd have a hard time just physically fitting much more in there.  Hopefully the 65-output setup will be enough that your main constraint to adding toys becomes the amount of space in your cab (and of course your budget!).

 

i think i need to clarify my goal better. I want to install 2 popbumpers and run those to simulate more than 2 pompbumpers. (good point on the lowerfield, i will install there also popbumpers). I want to go with this solution instead of installing for example 4 popbumers. this will help in making a clean installation. Then run over a change-over-relais the 2 popbumpers like 1-2-1-2-1-2-1-etc(where VP values might be popbumper 4-2-3-1-2-1etc)by only one controlling signal generated by VP. I have not looked at the VP program as i'm just starting. So this would mean that i must be able in VP to generate for each pompbumper the same signal on the same channel, this will run the changeovercoil and switch between the 2 popbumpers giving them time to go back to the unactivated state. As i understand from your reply i can have in VP like 10 virtual popbumpers and 10 real popbumpers and control each one of them by VP. I have no idea about how much channels i will be using, but better to much choice than no choice at all LOL .

[mjr]

i think i need to clarify my goal better. I want to install 2 popbumpers and run those to simulate more than 2 pompbumpers. (good point on the lowerfield, i will install there also popbumpers). I want to go with this solution instead of installing for example 4 popbumers. this will help in making a clean installation. Then run over a change-over-relais the 2 popbumpers like 1-2-1-2-1-2-1-etc(where VP values might be popbumper 4-2-3-1-2-1etc)by only one controlling signal generated by VP. I have not looked at the VP program as i'm just starting. So this would mean that i must be able in VP to generate for each pompbumper the same signal on the same channel, this will run the changeovercoil and switch between the 2 popbumpers giving them time to go back to the unactivated state. As i understand from your reply i can have in VP like 10 virtual popbumpers and 10 real popbumpers and control each one of them by VP. 

 

Okay, I think I get it - you want to minimize the number of physical devices, not the output channels.

 

I don't think there's any good way to do switch back and forth like you're proposing using any of the current software.  I think the working assumption for all of the software designers is that everyone wants more real output devices rather than fewer.  In the case of bumpers, most people do find it better to use more real devices to get more precise placement of the sound effect, so that your ear hears the bumper noise coming from the right direction.

 

What you have in mind would require special software support somewhere in the system.  Putting it in VP would require editing every table you wanted to play, which would be way too much work.  You probably want to put it somewhere lower level so it would work across multiple tables.  I think you'd set things up in DOF so that it *looks* like you have the usual complement of 8 or 10 contactors, but somewhere in the low-level software, you remap the "virtual" contactor events to your 2 real bumpers on a rotating basis.  You might  be able to hack something into DOF for that.  Or, if you end up using the Pinscape controller, you could put it in the controller, since it's all open-source software.  I could probably even help you out with it, although it might be a little too specialized to put into the main branch (mostly because I can't picture how this option would be presented in the config tool UI in an understandable way!).

[thedutchlander]

I see. Well a good point to start is to have an excellent controller in place to hook everything i want to put in later on, so i will start basic and work from there. I cannot tell how putting in all actual devices works out in comparison with the feeling of an actual pinball machine, maybe someone can tell what the feeling is compared to an real pinball machine?. I geuss with sounds comming out of the speakers to mimic devices and the devices installed under the playfield i presume creating of kick is more important then from where the sound is comming because that would be mainly the speakers because the louder the better.

[mjr]

I cannot tell how putting in all actual devices works out in comparison with the feeling of an actual pinball machine, maybe someone can tell what the feeling is compared to an real pinball machine?. I geuss with sounds comming out of the speakers to mimic devices and the devices installed under the playfield i presume creating of kick is more important then from where the sound is comming because that would be mainly the speakers because the louder the better.

 

Well, you'll probably want to turn *off* the sound effects for anything where you have a feedback device.  The digitized effects sound pretty fake and redundant once you have a physical device installed that's making a more realistic noise.

 

Also, I think the sound localization actually is pretty important.  It's especially noticeable to me when sounds *aren't* coming from the right place.  For example, on old EM tables that don't have music, the digitized sound effects of the ball rolling and bumping into posts tends to be prominent.  My cabinet speakers are about mid playfield, so the placement is good *most* of the time.  But when the ball is rolling around near the very top or bottom of the field, you can tell that the sound isn't coming from the right place.  

 

So in my opinion, you'd be better off using more than just two physical solenoids, giving you a better spread of devices across the playfield for more accurate placement of DOF effects.  I understand your motivation here - real pinball bumper mechanisms would certainly produce the most realistic effect, and it would be hard to cram 6 of those into a cabinet.  But I think on balance you'd be better off with more devices, even if it means you have to find something a little more compact.  

 

Regarding your question about how realistic the different devices are, I can only tell you about what I have installed.  I have a set of 10 of the Siemens contactors that everyone likes.  They're a pretty good compromise - they're small, run on 24VDC, and can be left on forever without overheating.  They sound and feel about right in terms of the quality of the sound, but real pinball bumpers and flippers are a bit louder.

Edited by mjr, 28 January 2016 - 01:38 AM.

[mjr]

I managed to sneak one more small addition into the main KL25Z interface board.  There's now wiring for an IR transmitter to allow for future software support for turning on TVs wirelessly via IR remote control commands, as well as for an IR receiver (TSOP382) for learning remote codes from an existing remote.  The idea is that you'll be able to take advantage of the TV-ON system built into the board and the software without having to take your TV apart.  Just place an IR LED within line of sight of your TV's remote control receiver.  The hardware setup will let you wire multiple LEDs if necessary to control multiple TVs, and since the commands will all be generated in the software, it will be no problem to send different commands for different TVs.

 

This is purely experimental right now - I haven't actually written any of the software support for it yet.  I've investigated it enough to think it'll be doable, though.

 

This should have no impact on anyone building the board if you don't need the IR features.  You can just leave those components out and everything else will still work.  If you do want to use this feature, the added parts are cheap (about $5 total).

 

The updated schematic and board layout are on the web site (http://mjrnet.org/pi...sion-board.html).

[vampirolatino2]

You have reached your quota of positive votes for the day

 

So... Triple LIKE!!!!

[NobodyYouKnow]

Just when I thought Pinscape was as cool as it could possibly be . . .

 

The IR blaster is definitely something I will take advantage of. Thank you!

[NobodyYouKnow]

Hey mjr - Can you update the Main Board BOM linked to Mouser from "http://mjrnet.org" to include the new parts for the IR Blaster. I think I found all the deltas, but want to be sure. Thank you!

[NobodyYouKnow]

Here is my take on the additional / changed parts needed to support the IR Blaster add-on to the Pinscape Main Board. This is a link to a shared project on the Mouser web site.

 

http://www.mouser.co...ssID=e2306208d7

 

1) Note the components for "M-JP4" will replace the previously specified 2x2 header parts with 2x3 equivalents. You will omit one M20-1070200 housing, one M20-9760246 header and four M20-1160042 pins. The above project adds back in the proper number of pins.
 

2) Interestingly, Harwin does not make a 2x3 pin header - they jump from 2x2 right to 2x5. The part specified in my list is a Molex equivalent. You can also get the Harwin 2x5 (M20-9720546) and trim it to 2x3.

 

3) This list does not include the IR emitters. You can choose whatever part best suits your need. The schematic suggests using 1.6 forward voltage, 50ma devices.

 

Thanks again to MJR for his fantastic contributions. I confess I am eagerly awaiting whatever may come next.

[mjr]

Here is my take on the additional / changed parts needed to support the IR Blaster add-on to the Pinscape Main Board. This is a link to a shared project on the Mouser web site.

 

Thanks for putting that together - getting the parts list updated is next on my list.

 

Right now I'm doing one "final" tweak of the boards: taking Zeb's advice and adding a small gate resistor to each MOSFET.  They don't seem to be strictly necessary (empirically in my testing, anyway), but standard engineering practice for these types of circuits is to use them, so I figured it would be good to add them.

[NobodyYouKnow]

Understood. Adding series gate resistors to the MOSFETs will slow their slew rate slightly, and help moderate any ringing / transients that may occur at switching. Modern MOSFETs used in non-inductive load applications tend to be much more forgiving to digital devices used to drive them, and do not have such a challenge with inrush current. MOSFETs used in inductive load situations, however, benefit from clamping and flywheel diodes (and sometimes even zeners for ultra-fast switching). Virtual pinball cabinets have both inductive and non-inductive applications, and judicious use of protective devices are well advised, including gate series resistors and clamping / flywheel diodes.

 

I have to plead ignorance on some aspects of MOSFET operation. I know that most - if not all - MOSFET designs include an intrinsic body diode between source and drain. I understand its primary purpose is to prevent an unstable point in the MOSFETs operational range, and is not so much there as a protective device. What I don't know is what kind of transient it can absorb or if it needs an external device to keep it stable. I expect in this application, with power demands so far below operating limits, this paragraph is moot.

 

I have not researched the opto's characteristics nor the PWM waveforms that drive them. I know that in high speed applications, a gate-ground resistor allows the gate voltage to bleed off much faster and yield a more "controlled" transition to off. It looks like the 1k resistors between gate and ground are targeted to do just that. (I am considering stacking a couple of resistors and a LED in that spot for each channel to provide a visual status of individual gate activation. It will be a useful debugging tool, and besides - I like flashy lights. )