176 replies to this topic

[dark]

Dark, if you set Frank where he's supposed to be (somewhere in the neighborhood of X=429, Y=343 for the jacket, for example) and you set he Z properly (for his jacket and body, they're both 0; his arms should be about 65 and his head... 165?  Did you not export each body part to have the same origin?), he's actually pretty spot on where he's suppose to be I think.  Some slight adjust because he hands are currently clipping the ramp slightly; his scale might be off slightly (I would think they scale should be the same for X, Y, and Z).  I think everything might need a slight rotation (that's difficult currently since it doesn't seem like each body part has the same origin).

 

I think he looks fine with Loaf's layback settings, as I mentioned in an above post I'll move the entire model down a bit so his hands are below the ramp chutes.

 

The reason the head requires extra height value is because I had to export him with his pivot point centered on the world axis (on the floor) to make sure his pivot was centered for reasons I mention in the previous post.  The arms require the same treatment but the jacket and chest/body were exported pre-stacked in position for convenience since they don't need to move.  The reason I have slightly different values for X,Y,Z scale is because layback in VP will cause distortion towards the back of the table especially, I did the same for the Last Action Hero crane since objects appear taller towards the back,  I played with these numbers while comparing to R/L photos for most accurate look.

 

For a desktop release all the model parts can be left at 90, but currently I think the slightly leaned back settings are preferable.  I can re-export the jacket and chest to have their pivot points centered on the world axis if need be, but this will in effect stack everything "on the floor" making it a little bit more difficult to line them up, but not a big deal really.

[Shoopity]

I'm not entirely sure how pivot points work in VP but as far as I know, object axis/pivot point is determined by the world axis center in the 3D environment.  When ever I export a model from 3DSmax it will ignore the objects pivot point and use the world axis center as its pivot point instead, so what I do is line up the objects pivot point (perfectly) with the world axis pivot point to make them one and the same.

I've said before, I'm only familiar with Blender since I'm broke ;-), but I know you've done with the R2 model.  For example, in the R2 model, I don't have to adjust Z height of the head, it's already at the exact height it needs to be with a Z of 0; if I rotate on any axis in VP, as long as I rotate both pieces exactly the same, everything lines up perfectly.  But with Frank, I have to set his head to ~165, otherwise it's sitting on the table (slightly below actually, but that might be because the table is slightly raised?).  I would expect to be able to set the X, Y, and Z of every body part to be the same and everything should line up; I should be able to rotate every piece of his body exactly the same an everything looks perfect.  Maybe you forgot a setting?  I know when I export from Blender, every time I do I have re-check the options "Triangulate Faces" and "Write Normals."  I also usually select Forward: Y Forward and Up: Z Up, but then when I import one of my models I select No to mirror and Yes to convert texture.  I don't know if that's just a difference in Blender or not, but when I do it that way, I don't have to rotate anything in VP (it's not perfect, sometimes for some reason I have to point the normals inside before I export).

 

***Edit*** (all of that was typed up prior to me seeing you explanation for breaking things up)

 

Regardless, if you put in my aforementioned settings, the head rotation should look a bit better.  If you need me to zip it up and put on Google Drive, I'd be more than willing.

Definitely adjust things however you guys see fit, it is well documented my artistic eye is nothing to be commissioned for.  But like I said, if you change the numbers in the editor from RotX to ObjRotX then change the code as mentioned, I think the animation should look a little more natural.

Edited by Shoopity, 18 August 2014 - 04:07 PM.

[The Loafer]

This thread is awesome, artists at work folks, artists at work.

[dark]

@Shoop:

Thanks for your help and input as always.

 

Just wait until a bit later today and I'll have a new version of the table with Loaf's lay back settings and the model moved into position better that you can play with.  This Frank model WIP has been in the works for a while now so we don't need to get it done over night - no panic.

 

Since I find myself explaining this time and time again and it's sort of hard to explain with just text I made this thread which demonstrates pivot point stuff so I can just point people to this for reference in the future.

http://www.vpforums....=28742&p=277500

[dark]

I've input Loafs backdrop settings and moved the Frank model down a bit so his hands line up nicely with the diversion ramps but I think the ramp itself needs to be moved back/up a bit since the diversion ramps currently overlap it a bit.  The diversion ramp positioning is good but the ramp not so much, I think it would take some effort to re-work it but I don't see much way around it with these settings.  I think these settings are probably the most ideal so far out of the ones we've tried.  I've also re-imported the body and jacket with their pivot points centered and given them new height values to make them line up just in the event that having slightly offset pivots causes some issue down the road.

 

You can also see that the flashers no longer line up with the plastics, a compromise could probably made there by scaling the plastics a bit and moving the flashers to meet some where half way.

Edited by dark, 18 August 2014 - 05:40 PM.

[The Loafer]

I believe LW stated once you are done he'll move the flashers. We are getting there!

[dark]

@Loafer:  I meant the flasher bulb primitives them selves, not the actual 'flasher objects'.

 

Okay so this latest version includes Loafer's settings, model moved down a bit.  I also angled his arms back a bit more in an attempt to have him appear to 'catch the balls' a bit better.  I'm not very experienced with actual table building so my input on this is limited but I did move the hand kickers down a bit so that the balls for the creature 2 ball actually land on his hand, the issue however is that the ball appears behind the hands because in the VP environment  frank is physically ahead of the kickers by a fair bit and probably has higher height values.  So with those two factors it would be next to impossible to make the ball appear in his hands with the current set up, perhaps a destroy ball and create ball event could be used, possibly in conjunction with a primitive ball (like LAH) could make this look better....I'm really not sure since again, I'm not a table author.  

 

Problem I guess is largely that we are trying to make a modded version of a pretty old table work around a new model, where as if this were done from scratch it could maybe done more so in the reverse....but any ways....I leave it to the capable minds of the community:

 

http://www.mediafire...oafsettings.rar

 

If someone can find some way for the balls to appear in his hands while having his arms not quite as leaned back as they are in this version, I'd personally prefer they not be leaned back quite so far but no big deal either way.

[bolt]

Thank you dark.

[The Loafer]

No prob dark, I think LW meant both primitives and flasher object too but I should not speak for him.

As Frank would say: Arrrggghhhh!

[LoadedWeapon]

I'm on it...  Thanks Dark, Shoopity, and Loafer.. 

[LoadedWeapon]

Ok what you guys think? I darkened everything up abit more.. Just changes a few rings too... If you like it I will upload it.

 Untitled.png   2.72MB   7 downloads

 

 

 

Edited by LoadedWeapon, 18 August 2014 - 09:41 PM.

[bolt]

TOP

[The Loafer]

Oh that certainly works for me!

[dark]

Yep, I don't think anyone will complain about that!

 

A bunch of fine tuning could still be done, especially since arm animation hasn't yet been implemented right?  But even still it's an improvement over the old choppy 2D version.  Can always put an update out as things develop.

 

Thanks for all the help guys.

 

Just curious, how did you darken frank?  Just darkened his texture maps?  In some of the photos I have with brighter light you can see his jacket is a dark shade of blue which is why I didn't just make it black (details are lost in black as well), I kinda thought it could be darkened but it's always easier to darken something than it is to brighten and bring details back.  I think it looks good, looks like it belongs on the table.

Edited by dark, 18 August 2014 - 10:32 PM.

[LoadedWeapon]

Yea just darkened your textures..  Hope everyone likes it..

Edited by LoadedWeapon, 19 August 2014 - 12:09 AM.

[goesta]

Great UPDATE. The new Frank Model - wow!!!

 

Reversed and imported the textures from post#107. Followed the thread all along and thought the darker textures take something away of Franks detail and this plastic look, which was there before.

Maybe it is my TV.

 

The multiball is crazy ;-)

Thx to the whole team for updating

[dark]

Glad you like it Goesta, but you may need to re-import those textures one more time!

 

I got Uncle Willy to help with the 'creature 2 ball'.  I made some 3D mesh primitive balls to fit in Frank's hands so when the balls get loaded into his hands they actually should look like they are being held instead of just floating there.  The kicker will trigger a destroy ball > primitive ball visible > primitive ball invisible after launch animation > kicker launches new ball.  He said it shouldn't be too hard for him to get it working, but he's a busy guy as we all know, so I'd expect one more update on this one at some point.

Praise to UW! 

[goesta]

No problem dark, i was surprised how easy it was. Selected all of Franks textures at once for the export and same for the import. Love the plastic look. Saved the textures for the next update ;-)

Would be good if those textures are not lost and kept hosted for awhile for others to choose.

 

You guys doing awesome jobs here and updating those tables is nearly as fun playing for me. Is nice to see a table evolving like this!

Edited by goesta, 19 August 2014 - 04:09 AM.

[goesta]

Would you consider for the next update ball rolling sounds? Maybe optional ... but this crazy multiball and clashing pinballs sure would be something!

[dark]

No problem dark, i was surprised how easy it was. Selected all of Franks textures at once for the export and same for the import. Love the plastic look. Saved the textures for the next update ;-)

Would be good if those textures are not lost and kept hosted for awhile for others to choose.

 

You guys doing awesome jobs here and updating those tables is nearly as fun playing for me. Is nice to see a table evolving like this!

All those textures are included in the download of the model:

http://www.vpforums....s&showfile=9907

 

This download also includes an alternate head model and DIY instructions on how to insert your own face as a texture map onto the model for fun!

The only real difference is the texture you insert your face into won't have the lights/shadows texture baked into the texture like the original does.  I actually did one special for Loafer since it was his idea and he was so gracious as he supplied me with such great resources for this project, maybe he'll post a screen shot of his mug in action.

Edited by dark, 19 August 2014 - 04:38 AM.