165 replies to this topic

[Dodger]

Looks really cool.

[Nemo]

Oh wow ! That's handy ! 

[ClarkKent]

Wow! Looks really nice! It looks and feels the same as the ferris wheel on my real Cyclone pinball machine! I hope that the physics are better than the last version. I lately compared the Cyclone version of VP and FP and I have to admit that the FP version is almost as real as the real thing but the VP version is not even near the real thing! I hope that Hurricane for VP will be like the real one!

[The Loafer]

Clark, you do some good stuff but you are a little too blunt. You need to adapt your approach a bit before everyone tells you to take a hike.

[ClarkKent]

I don't think that anybody got my message wrong. I think the creators of the tables should - if possible - work together with owners of the real pinball tables - I think the realism would be much higher. I also realized the strange ball behavior in the VP version of Cyclone since I own the real one. Very good ports are Pinbot, Bad Cats, Indiana Jones, Medieval Madness or STTNG, physics are almost like on a pinball machine. The latest Hurricane version behaves a little bit strange, too. That's the reason why I hope to see a better tuned physics for this great looking mod! That's all!

 

I want to add that JimmyFingers has a really good feeling for tuning the physics!

Edited by ClarkKent, 05 November 2013 - 05:27 PM.

[jimmyfingers]

I don't think that anybody got my message wrong. I think the creators of the tables should - if possible - work together with owners of the real pinball tables - I think the realism would be much higher. I also realized the strange ball behavior in the VP version of Cyclone since I own the real one. Very good ports are Pinbot, Bad Cats, Indiana Jones, Medieval Madness or STTNG, physics are almost like on a pinball machine. The latest Hurricane version behaves a little bit strange, too. That's the reason why I hope to see a better tuned physics for this great looking mod! That's all!

 

I want to add that JimmyFingers has a really good feeling for tuning the physics!

Thanks for the compliment, however, you do realize that I did the physics for Hurricane, right?  I did the lighting / GI8 and the BMPR along with a set of physics routines. I don’t think anything physics wise was altered before release from any of the other’s in the group. I'm wondering though, from some of how your wording seems in a couple previous posts, if you have the actual "latest" version of the Hurricane table or are you playing and referring to an older one that predates this recent collaborative MOD.

 

This latest update is really only adjusting the Ferris wheels (wickedly mind you) but the main table MOD was released this last summer. As usual, it got complaints about everything from being too dark, to too hard, to too bouncy - all of which can be pretty much argued what real pinball is (save maybe adding a darkened room). Some parts of the Hurricane physics were more difficult because of the table’s design and the only open space being fairly tight and confined to the bottom area. I can assure you though, I did a great deal of assessing and comparing the speeds and "bounciness" to real tables albeit from only every video I could find on the Internet as I did not have access to a real machine like I have with PIN-BOT or Comet (an unreleased BMPR mod and constant work in progress as it's one of my favourite tables). A lot of a table's physics I believe can still be adequately studied and observed from watching (real life or video) except for some things which are more tactile like the feel and behaviour of the flippers. Part of the problem with Hurricane in this tight area (and really a lot of the VP physics challenges in general) is maintaining an accurate bounce at lower speeds but not having the ball fly around, somewhat atomic like, at higher speeds or, specific to Hurricane, in that tight bottom space when it's careening off multiple items quickly. However, the real one still seems to throw some rebounds right back down the throat of the player when a ramp is missed. Problem still remains with VP in that there is no ball spin and / or hopping off the table or kinetic energy transferred to other elements / vectors. The dampening routine I use can help to take some of the heat off of extra bouncy fast moving balls and does so in a non-linear fashion to leave the bottom end mostly untouched and has mixed into it the options for, and for which I set, a fair degree of randomness to help simulate some occasional differences from one bounce or object collision to the next. Maybe for Hurricane the dampening routines on the objects should be cranked up a bit more or adjusted / rewritten for more lower / mid range adjustments.

 

All in all, I think it's got a good feel but until we can deal with ball spin, more accurate properties / weight differences (from steel, to rubber, to wood), and more nuances involved in the core physics of VP, we're all just trying to compensate in some way or the other. I think the ability to increase the ball weight would be very helpful as well and the density of the steel pinball in real life plays a huge part in pinball’s overall physics. However, we still would need a much more complex collision mechanism and object properties / modelling as right now essentially every object is the same composition with only values like elasticity and friction adjustable. This contributes largely to the problem of every bit of energy going into an object being returned to the ball in a consistent and too simple a fashion (even if factored by a 0-1 elasticity setting) as it's the same basic equation every time with only initial speed of the ball being the difference..

[ClarkKent]

I have to admit that I did not, for what reason ever, install the very latest version of Hurricane - I just saw that there was a new version of Aug 2013! I really have to try the very latest release! I think this will shorten time to the latest update here from koadic...

 

Maybe the new ferris wheel can be used for a better Cyclone version, too?

[koadic]

If someone wants to implement it, I am willing to share my materials and scripting.

[htamas]

I hope that the physics are better than the last version. I lately compared the Cyclone version of VP and FP and I have to admit that the FP version is almost as real as the real thing but the VP version is not even near the real thing!

 

That's hard to imagine if you are talking about the latest VP Cyclone version. In fact it is hard to imagine about any recent VP table version

Edited by htamas, 06 November 2013 - 01:41 AM.

[jimmyfingers]

I have to admit that I did not, for what reason ever, install the very latest version of Hurricane - I just saw that there was a new version of Aug 2013! I really have to try the very latest release! I think this will shorten time to the latest update here from koadic...

 

Maybe the new ferris wheel can be used for a better Cyclone version, too?

This explains a lot and I'm glad I asked the question as it really seemed you may not have been working with the current Hurricane "MOD" - the current version and the much older one are vastly different in many ways.  Of course, regarding any table now that is a couple years old, it is no statement on the authors at the time as much more features and options exist for VP currently within the code itself, through scriptable add-ons, and even from other resources like texture and sound libraries. 

Edited by jimmyfingers, 06 November 2013 - 01:52 AM.

[The Loafer]

THere are always better ways to express recommendations and improvements Mr. kent, but I seems you will have to learn this in your own way. But as with your assumption of the version of hurricane that you tested, thinking that nobody got your message wrong is another.

Don't get me wrong, I am 100% positive intentions are only good. Carry on

[ClarkKent]

Now I'm using the right version! Much better now! I can't stand waiting for the new ferris wheels!

 

Now only the predecessor of Hurricane, Cyclone, needs an upgrade to be as good as Hurricane!

[ClarkKent]

 

I hope that the physics are better than the last version. I lately compared the Cyclone version of VP and FP and I have to admit that the FP version is almost as real as the real thing but the VP version is not even near the real thing!

 

That's hard to imagine if you are talking about the latest VP Cyclone version. In fact it is hard to imagine about any recent VP table version

 

I own the Cyclone pinball. I compared it to the latest VP and latest FP version. Believe it or not - the FP version is like the real game, the VP version not. Only drawback for the FP version (as most tables for FP): ball behavior is great but flipper control is not very realistic.

[htamas]

All right, I see what you mean... but the real problem with all FP games is exactly the flipper control which (for me at least) negates any other advantage the FP version may have.

It's a sad thing, really.

Edited by htamas, 08 November 2013 - 01:42 AM.

[The Loafer]

Beat me to hit. I very much like the improvements to FP and the new zed physics do a better job on flippers (for zed tables anyway) but... I can't understand how the most important part of pinball is basically cast aside when comparing how version plays compared to another.

Back on topic (sorta), that video of the Ferris wheel really shows the incredible potential for other vp tables that use toys. We should make a thread with a list of tables that could benefit greatly from these 3d toys.

[koadic]

Back on topic (sorta), that video of the Ferris wheel really shows the incredible potential for other vp tables that use toys. We should make a thread with a list of tables that could benefit greatly from these 3d toys.

And the thing is the wheels weren't even the hard part, the hard part was trying to animate the ball inside the wheels...

Edited by koadic, 08 November 2013 - 09:25 AM.

[koadic]

And here is a quick video showing the 'on the fly' selection of the model detail level and how it effects framerate...



There isn't a whole lot of detail lost between the 100% and 50% range, but lower than that it starts becoming apparent (which is why there are a finer level of selections at the lower levels).

[ClarkKent]

The animated ball in the ferris wheels is just great! Thats totally missing in the FP version!

[SillyRabbit]

I get a crash on this table in rev695 every time. What version works?

[koadic]

I get a crash on this table in rev695 every time. What version works?

That's a known issue that was fixed with 698.