1394 replies to this topic

[kiwi]

Kickers seem weird since they were introduced the static objects (Rev681-688).
From revision 689, the kickers are not visible and when the ball is caught by a kicker is only half visible, the trick of the light above the kicker does not work,
with RU-RO Off-On makes no difference.
This happens by adding a static object in the table (Primitive or Mesh), works well with Static rendering disabled.

 

Thanks

 

Max

[fuzzel]

Hmm weird...is the static primitive near the kicker? Could be a limitation of the static primitive option. Static primitives are rendered together with the playfield after that nothing changes the primitive anymore. So if you have dynamic elements intersect a static primitive or it's under that primitive the behavior looks weird because the region of the primitive gets no updates. But I'm guessing here

[jpsalas]

The kicker in the TOTAN table works as always. Remember that the balls get cut in half in all kind of kickers but the kicker cup, and by using the light I hide the kicker, since the kicker cup is visible.

 

I think version 756 works quite well, and just now I'm not home and I can only test it in my old portable (a dell E4300, with an intel cpu at 2.6Ghz and an Intel Graphics). Still I think the tables I tried work better without the RU. I only have enabled the Hardware Rendering and the Region Otimization, and all the alpha ramps work quite well without the need for an extra refresh.

 

To all the other authors: have you tried selecting only the HR and RO? Please try my beta AFM and TOTAN tables I uploaded and see how they work. Using this old portable I get 71 fps on TOTAN, but if I turn on RU I see a small decrease in fps, and if I add a light the fps decrease even more.If I select all the alpha ramps and I turn on the "Update Region" then the fps goes down to 29 (without the refreshing light, of course), and then they work just like without RU, but with a slower framerate.

 

On my home computer with an NVidia GTX 680 I don't see any difference with RU on of off. This is why I started testing without RU. I know all the system are different but try to turn off RU (with HR and RO on), remove those refresing lights and see how the table plays. That's what I do with all the new tables, and I feel I get better framerates.

Edited by jpsalas, 01 December 2013 - 06:25 PM.

[unclewilly]

I don't use ru or to. It's the only way I can use nvidia as without graphics glitches

My machine is pretty beefy though

[fuzzel]

Does anyone else has glitches on CV with rev 756/757 and RU/RO on ? Some flashers are just white but it could be a problem just on my system.

[kiwi]

The static object is not near the kicker,

though now I realized that when I assign a picture to a static object (PNG 64 x 64 PX), the kicker disappears,
with the Top/Bottom/Side colors, the kicker is visible.

 

Max

[toxie]

The kicker in the TOTAN table works as always. Remember that the balls get cut in half in all kind of kickers but the kicker cup, and by using the light I hide the kicker, since the kicker cup is visible.

 

I think version 756 works quite well, and just now I'm not home and I can only test it in my old portable (a dell E4300, with an intel cpu at 2.6Ghz and an Intel Graphics). Still I think the tables I tried work better without the RU. I only have enabled the Hardware Rendering and the Region Otimization, and all the alpha ramps work quite well without the need for an extra refresh.

 

From my experiences RU off works best on laptops, i guess some sideeffect of the usually shared memory system.. That's also actually one of the reasons i put this RU off-option in back then..

For the rest of the systems its a mixed bag, especially depending on the table elements themselves..

Hmm weird...is the static primitive near the kicker? Could be a limitation of the static primitive option. Static primitives are rendered together with the playfield after that nothing changes the primitive anymore. So if you have dynamic elements intersect a static primitive or it's under that primitive the behavior looks weird because the region of the primitive gets no updates. But I'm guessing here

 

That makes sense.. The static primitive is not included in the region updates, but can only trigger underlying objects to refresh..

[jimmyfingers]

My experience has been pretty consistent with the RU / RO setting combinations (always with HR enabled) and that is for me it has always been much better FPS wise with neither on and only HR. With HR and only RO (no RU) I've gotten much worse performance when testing but I don't use this mode as my default settings because it breaks nVidia AA for some things (ball over flippers, etc), When testing, I've tried with forced nVidia AA on and off, with Windows "disable desktop composition" on and off (on the .exe file in Windows - leaving unchecked fixes tearing on flippers and other objects), and with many other combinations and over my two main systems and now a 3rd as I'm in the process of upgrading my mini-cab hardware (i5-4670 with 760 GTX testing now / may return components if improvement not significant).

 

On all the systems I've tested and using the test table I posted in this topic a few pages back (page 43 / post 860), I get approximately 30% of the FPS when I use HR and RO together with no forced AA and I get as low as about 15-20% the FPS when I use HR and RO together with AA forced (plus it breaks AA) - all compared to HR only. I've further verified today the same settings on my new hardware and got the same thing, higher FPS though, but the same general proportions which makes this now 3 systems that I've got identical results. With other tables I've tried to date this experience has generally been the same but the proportions may change somewhat, however, never have I got RO being on to actually help my FPS. My systems have all been Windows 7 32-bit with nVidia and normally the 306.97 driver but for the last little while using 331.65 which seems pretty stable / decent with a small improvement over 306.97. Like I say, this is all testing various modes and even at times checking other things that shouldn’t matter as much like where the alpha slider is located and the max. textures setting.

 

This being said, when I try the two recent beta tables from JP above, I get very little difference between HR only and HR and RO (only about 5% to 10% drop respectively) - still lower with both HR and RO but not be nearly as much as on the test table above and on the other tables with which I test.

[fuzzel]

The static object is not near the kicker,

though now I realized that when I assign a picture to a static object (PNG 64 x 64 PX), the kicker disappears,
with the Top/Bottom/Side colors, the kicker is visible.

 

Max

Try rev758. It should fix this.

[toxie]

a bit unrelated, but meanwhile i think i found the fix for the crackling sound issue (volume at max, etc) on WMS sound emulation..

i noticed some members of the pinmame team, lets see if this was really the issue or if its just luck on my machine..

 

EDIT: oh, and coming back on topic: should we like -really- try to make this rev now the final 9.2.0?

Edited by toxie, 01 December 2013 - 09:07 PM.

[jimmyfingers]

a bit unrelated, but meanwhile i think i found the fix for the crackling sound issue (volume at max, etc) on WMS sound emulation..

i noticed some members of the pinmame team, lets see if this was really the issue or if its just luck on my machine..

 

EDIT: oh, and coming back on topic: should we like -really- try to make this rev now the final 9.2.0?

What about the per table Alpha Ramp Accuracy slider that I mentioned above and others have mentioned previously?  I agree that we should try and get some finalization going on the official release but with all the new stuff since we last thought it was locked, the alpha slider per table option could be one last very key thing (i.e. we already have per table settings for RU, RO, the fake AA, reflection, so this ramps aspects would round it off).

[fuzzel]

That shouldn't be a big problem...

[perplexicon]

Does anyone else has glitches on CV with rev 756/757 and RU/RO on ? Some flashers are just white but it could be a problem just on my system.

 

Yes, I can confirm I have the same problem!

[jimmyfingers]

That shouldn't be a big problem...

[chas]

xllnt gentlemen

VP has come a long way since i have been here since 905/907 in Feb/2010

 

maybe i missed it......is there a way to enable/disable global settings in "physics settings" in preferences for flippers and table settings?
i see an "override by global physics set =0" in "backdrop".
Q; is this the global setting for flippers and table settings"?

Q; what  does the number 0 and up do?

Q; what is set 1-8?

if no enable/disable in physics menu maybe you could  add the option?
 

i have a stutter glitch in sexygirlFS.

756 starts ok...when the model girls change in the center table image it starts stuttering...

rolled back to 474....did not stutter.

im on XP.

[toxie]

Q; is this the global setting for flippers and table settings"?
Q; what  does the number 0 and up do?
Q; what is set 1-8?
if no enable/disable in physics menu maybe you could  add the option

1: yes, this is for the table.. There is also a separate setting for each flipper
2: 0 means that it uses the local table setting, NOT the global ones
3: this selects the respective set that you configured in the global physics options

Edited by toxie, 02 December 2013 - 07:38 AM.

[sleepy]

Just a suggestion.

The VP Script Editor, I think, is running on Scintilla. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Scintilla was updated in April to allow Block Comments syntax. Friends, if you have ever needed to comment out more than a few lines of consecutive script, then you might be interested in this.

 

It would also be nice to have Line Numbering in the Script Editor. I have seen hundreds of script errors returned in the last 13 years, usually referring to the line number, but I often need to scroll up and down to find the lines in Red when the errors are multiple. 

[chas]

 

Q; is this the global setting for flippers and table settings"?
Q; what  does the number 0 and up do?
Q; what is set 1-8?
if no enable/disable in physics menu maybe you could  add the option

1: yes, this is for the table.. There is also a separate setting for each flipper
2: 0 means that it uses the local table setting, NOT the global ones
3: this selects the respective set that you configured in the global physics options

 

1..ok

2.. 0 for on and 1 for off?....not 2,3,4 and up?  ex: in the script there is hidden = x....1 is off and 0 is on shows the DMD display.

3...not sure what you mean by "selects the respective set configured in global settings".....what is 1-8?....please explain a little more.

you guys have made so many changes in 91x daily builds.

the use guide in the red menu "design resource" is 911 feb/2011  .....a little outdated.

Edited by chas, 02 December 2013 - 09:46 AM.

[toxie]

2: 0 means that it works like before (i.e. NO global settings used for this table), 1 selects set 1, 2 selects set 2, 3 selects set 3, etc (see next part of the answer)

3: the sets are specified in the global physics options, which are found in the VP options menu list, if i remember correctly somewhere below the video preferences of VP

there you can select and configure 8 different sets (f.e. you could define one for JPs settings, UWs settings, Lord Hiryus settings, VP default table settings, etc etc) which you can then select -per table- by using the number of this set

The VP Script Editor, I think, is running on Scintilla. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Scintilla was updated in April to allow Block Comments syntax. Friends, if you have ever needed to comment out more than a few lines of consecutive script, then you might be interested in this.

 

It would also be nice to have Line Numbering in the Script Editor. I have seen hundreds of script errors returned in the last 13 years, usually referring to the line number, but I often need to scroll up and down to find the lines in Red when the errors are multiple. 

 

actually i looked into this a while ago, but the problem is that the used version of scintilla in VP is soooooooooo old that it didn't work right out of the box, and i was scared to touch the code, as i don't understand it..

so if we have some wizard here that knows about such stuff, i would be please to cooperate there..

[fuzzel]

What about the per table Alpha Ramp Accuracy slider that I mentioned above and others have mentioned previously?  I agree that we should try and get some finalization going on the official release but with all the new stuff since we last thought it was locked, the alpha slider per table option could be one last very key thing (i.e. we already have per table settings for RU, RO, the fake AA, reflection, so this ramps aspects would round it off).

 

done with rev 759