4027 replies to this topic

[Thalamus]

I'll check this soon, but, to me it sounds like your on to something indeed. What I find a bit disturbing though is that in wrd1972 there is also a intro sound imported that plays at start of the game and that too is very low. That isn't rom related, so, my way of seeing it is that it will most probably effect many tables, ie originals.

 

There is no doubt that something changed from 10.6.1 to the first beta. I hope that Toxie knows what this might be. Thank you very much for testing and verifying what I've been saying.

Edited by Thalamus, 19 December 2020 - 10:00 PM.

[wiesshund]

I'll check this soon, but, to me it sounds like your on to something indeed. What I find a bit disturbing though is that in wrd1972 there is also a intro sound imported that plays at start of the game and that too is very low. That isn't rom related, so, my way of seeing it is that it will most probably effect many tables, ie originals.

 

There is no doubt that something changed from 10.6.1 to the first beta. I hope that Toxie knows what this might be. Thank you very much for testing and verifying what I've been saying.

 

I would have to look at the specific table

You say it is called wrd1972? I will look at it later

 

In older tables i will mention something i run into a lot

total lack of the SSF type sound routines in the supporting sounds area, combined with stereo files set as table
I am not totally sure what VPX attempts to do when the line says playsound soundFX, i do not know if it attempts to do something positionally or not.
If it does, it does not do a good job of it.

 

but i know that a sound that is stereo, and is forced to try to play based on an X/Y position does not come out right, which is kind of expected as far as 3d game audio engines go.

 

What i wind up seeing in vpx 10.7 is a sound that comes out someplace that i dont expect, like left flipper coming out at the rear of the table, on the wrong side
and maybe the volume is not right even.

 

Those tables, i generally put in the code for the sound functions so we can pan and fade to table objects or ball position
I export all of the mechanical, or table positional sounds, and run them through audacity.
Any that are stereo, i split to mono, and delete the side with the lowest attenuation.

I also usualy attenuate them all to 0dB (personal choice, i hate quiet stuff, i can turn it down in script, i cant make it louder than it is)

Then reimport them

Then i will usually run through the script and make sure that flippers bumpers kickers slingshots, spinners and anything else that should be distinctly positional
is set to audiopan/audiofade to that object, for slingshots, i pan to the little kicker arm since prims are a valid X/Y source and Walls\Rubbers are not

 

If i see any sounds that are distinctly backbox, like pseudo ROM sounds, i will usually set them to backbox - rear (as 10.7 can actually use backbox any speaker available)

so that they play ROM like, from the place you would be hearing PinMAME play from.

 

But these, for me anyways, have been tables that mostly began a number of years ago, and while some have updated since, it looks to be art and physics updates
and the audio does not seem to have been looked at as far as thinking about SSF and such.
Maybe SSF did not work back then, or was not exactly being used?

There are even brand new tables we are getting now that have no audio consideration for SSF, table is set up for running on 2 speakers only

got a couple yesterday.

 

I suppose it is possible that 10.6 may do better in that type of situation?
maybe it has some kind of fall back to it
and it also understands a lot less about your audio capabilities to go looking at

10.7 could play a table whose audio was designed by Lucas, if you let it

[Thalamus]

We should not discuss this any further here in 10.7beta thread as we are now going into other subjects. But, you seem to be doing at least some stuff that has already been done and is available to download. https://github.com/s...pxtable_scripts - scroll down to the end and then it explains when ssf started etc. Again, thank you again and wrd1972 is the author of F14 that I'm using for testing. https://vpinball.com/VPBdownloads/f14-tomcat-williams-1987-wvr-room/ -

[wiesshund]

We should not discuss this any further here in 10.7beta thread as we are now going into other subjects. But, you seem to be doing at least some stuff that has already been done and is available to download. https://github.com/s...pxtable_scripts - scroll down to the end and then it explains when ssf started etc. Again, thank you again and wrd1972 is the author of F14 that I'm using for testing. https://vpinball.com...-1987-wvr-room/ -

 

Yea, i have an aversion to external table scripts
aside from a few that will like auto set a table to tournament mode or something

 

i just put it into the table itself

if table author updates, i put new and old in DIFF
if the things i changed are not updated in the new version, i just bump those changes over.

 

I have a different F14 it seems.
Was done by ganjafarmer aug 4 2017

I will look for the other one, as it does me no good to compare when i dont have same table as you

[batch]

I've a problem with my table "Nemesis"

 

In desktop mode, captive balls visually pass through the wire guide and the target

 

It was fine with the current version (1.0.0), created with VP10.6 final

 

 

But in the updated version, with VP10.6 too, it looks like that

 

 

If I uncheck "Static Rendering" on the wire guide, it looks like below

 

 

But I don't have this option for the targets

Edited by batch, 20 December 2020 - 05:11 PM.

[kiwi]

I've a problem with my table "Nemesis"

 

In desktop mode, captive balls visually pass through the wire guide and the target

 

It was fine with the current version (1.0.0), created with VP10.6 final

 

 

But in the updated version, with VP10.6 too, it looks like that

 

 

If I uncheck "Static Rendering" on the wire guide, it looks like below

 

 

But I don't have this option for the targets

Do you have the two kickers visible? If so, hide them.

[batch]

Thanks a lot, Kiwi, this was the problem

 

So, sorry Toxie & Fuzzel, this is not a V10.7 beta bug

[fuzzel]

rev4364 is up:

 

- set VPX file version to 10.7

- one more improvement for that damn DMD shader: use a tri-reconstruction-filter instead of box, and increase amount of samples again  :/

- check for duplicate element names and if found add a number at the end of the name

- do not use low level/undocumented API call to set a lower timer resolution, as it lead to sound distortion on some setups in PinMAME, so disable it also in VPX for now

[batch]

I just installed rev4360, and when trying to open JP's table "Polar Explorer (Taito 1983) v3.0.1" with VP10.6 final, at first, the table appeared with no textures, and the second time, VPinball crashed

 

And then, it crashed every time I tried to open it (it also crashes with VP10.7 beta rev4360)

 

I tried with another one, "Space Patrol (Taito do Brasil - 1978) 3.0", it doesn't crash but textures don't appear, but it works fine with VP10.7 beta rev4360

 

I re-started my computer, and it's all the same

 

I have the new VBSSripts installed in the script folder

 

(VP10.6 final)

 

Crash report VPX rev3788
============
Process: VPX6LAST.exe
Reason: 0xC0000005 - EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION at 0023:00519538
Attempt to read from 0x0000020C
Thread ID: 0x3308 [13064]

Call stack
==========
00519538 VPX6LAST.exe (0x00000001 0x0019E960 0x00000291 0x09e06a00)
004853DB VPX6LAST.exe (0x02DB8790 0x02DFB8E0 0x00000000 0x18a301f0)
004BA4EB VPX6LAST.exe (0x18A33E78 0x77B0F94E 0x00000000 0x00000000)
77B0F94E ntdll.dll RtlAllocateHeap + 0x3E (0x02D70000 0x00000000 0x000000A0 0x0019e5b0)
76F89F86 combase.dll PropVariantCopy + 0x536 (0x0019E5AC 0x76E3BE3B 0x76E3BEBA 0x00000000)
76E41B0C coml2.dll StgOpenStorageOnILockBytes + 0x209C (0x00000000 0x18A33E78 0x76E3EE58 0x18932960)

Environment
===========
Date/time: 21/12/2020, 15:48:18:932
Number of CPUs: 8
Processor type: 586
System: Windows 10 (10.0 18363)

Memory status
=============
Total Reserved: 105824K (103M) bytes
Total Commited: 350984K (342M) bytes
Total Free: 3737432K (3649M) bytes
Largest Free: 2095440K (2046M) bytes

Registers
=========
EAX=00000000 EBX=09E06A00 ECX=02DFB8E0 EDX=00000001
ESI=0019E960 EDI=0019E978 EBP=00000000 ESP=0019E5C0 EIP=76E3EE49
FLG=00010246 CS=0023 DS=002B SS=002B ES=002B FS=0053 GS=002B


Mini dump saved successfully.


(VP10.7 beta rev4360)

 

Crash report VPX rev4364
============
Process: vpinballx.exe
Reason: 0xC0000005 - EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION at 0023:0059FB14
Attempt to read from 0x00000038
Thread ID: 0x2150 [8528]

Call stack
==========
0059FB14 vpinballx.exe (0x00000004 0x00000001 0x030BA8A0 0x08925e20)
004E686B vpinballx.exe (0x0019DD2C 0x083515E0 0x0C4CFCE8 0x006d0049)
0052E838 vpinballx.exe (0x77AF2EE9 0x0C4CFD24 0x00000001 0x00000000)
77B3334C ntdll.dll ZwContinue + 0xC (0x0C4CFD24 0x00000001 0x00000000 0x00000000)
77AF2EE9 ntdll.dll LdrInitializeThunk + 0x29 (0x08352578 0x03010000 0x086EA390 0x00000053)
77B47EC2 ntdll.dll LdrLoadEnclaveModule + 0x7B2 (0x32B47EC2 0x086EA330 0x08925E20 0x07fcf0c0)
77B0D796 ntdll.dll RtlFreeHeap + 0x46 (0x0019DD2C 0x0019DD00 0x092702F0 0x005ced21)
00512890 vpinballx.exe (0x0019DD2C 0x0019DD00 0x77B0CFB0 0x0c4cfea4)
005CED21 vpinballx.exe (0x083515E0 0x0C4CFE78 0x0C4CFF10 0x0061c0bd)
005D0652 vpinballx.exe (0x0019DD2C 0x0C4CFF1C 0x0C4CFF1C 0x0050cdb9)
00512BE9 vpinballx.exe (0x00512940 0x0C4CFF60 0x00615A00 0xffffffffffffffff)
00512963 vpinballx.exe (0x092702F0 0x2B79C972 0x005F88FF 0x005f88ff)
005F8956 vpinballx.exe (0x0C853310 0x75426340 0x0C4CFFDC 0x77b28944)
75426359 KERNEL32.DLL BaseThreadInitThunk + 0x19 (0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF 0x77B4A0BD 0x00000000 0x00000000)
77B28914 ntdll.dll RtlGetAppContainerNamedObjectPath + 0xB4 (0x00000000 0x00000000 0x005F88FF 0x0c853310)
77B4A0BD ntdll.dll RtlCaptureContext + 0xDD (0x00000000 0x005F88FF 0x0C853310 0x00000000)

Environment
===========
Date/time: 21/12/2020, 16:03:08:212
Number of CPUs: 8
Processor type: 586
System: Windows 10 (10.0 18363)

Memory status
=============
Total Reserved: 112048K (109M) bytes
Total Commited: 358780K (350M) bytes
Total Free: 3723412K (3636M) bytes
Largest Free: 2095440K (2046M) bytes

Registers
=========
EAX=00000000 EBX=00000000 ECX=08925E20 EDX=00000001
ESI=0C4CFE08 EDI=08925E20 EBP=FFFFFFFF ESP=0C4CFFEC EIP=77B4A0BD
FLG=00010246 CS=0023 DS=002B SS=002B ES=002B FS=0053 GS=002B


Mini dump saved successfully.

 

Edited by batch, 21 December 2020 - 03:08 PM.

[Thalamus]

@batch : Try downloading those newest JP releases once more. He reverted them so that they where made with 10.6 - maybe you didn't get that info and had already downloaded the tables that had issues. I just tried Polar Explorer with the newest and I could not see anything wrong with it.

 

There is a high chance that the version he used for 10.7 last, is not compatible or something with the new one - just guessing now of course.

Edited by Thalamus, 21 December 2020 - 03:40 PM.

[batch]

Thanks, Thalamus, I'm gonna do that

 

So, if I understand, all tables built or updated and filed with the last VP10.7 beta are no more playable with VP10.6

[Thalamus]

That is beta for you. They might sometime break something, so, sometime it works, sometime it doesn't. Don't expect games made with 10.7 to work with 10.6 in the future. But, I expect that they focus on still being able to use 10.7 to play 10.6 tables. But, yeah, that is when you might experience issues still. Partly why we have beta. Be also careful of using 10.7 - expecting it will work in the next beta. Very high chance that it will not break, but, no guarantee I guess. As long as you don't need any of the 10.7 features, then it is safer to at least save tables in 10.6 for now.

Edited by Thalamus, 21 December 2020 - 04:01 PM.

[batch]

Bad luck, I build my table "L'Hexagone" using VP10.7 beta from the beginning, so, I hope it will work with VP10.7.1, but as I'm very slow, it's possible !

 

More seriously, I think some other authors do the same, it's the only way to improve and develop VP10.7

[Thalamus]

As I said, the chance is very high that it will work. Problem is if there is something really messed with the way something is constructed and they have to fix it and it becomes incompatible with the new and improved. You should not really have to worry too much about it. Especially since Fuzzel uploads beta versions to VPinball. You can always go back a couple of versions to get around such issues, in worst case, export the resouces, script etc, then import them to the new. I would not worry to much about it, just saying that It can happen. Don't expect users running 10.6 to play your tables created in 10.7 tough, that is basically what you need to focus on.

Edited by Thalamus, 21 December 2020 - 04:25 PM.

[fuzzel]

Thalamus is right. 10.7 is in beta status for a good reason We really appreciate all the tests player and authors do with the 10.7 but using 10.7 to build a table for VPX 10.6 is not a good idea and you have already noticed that I guess Therefore I increased the VPX file version number in the latest update. If you load a table saved with 10.7.4364+ in VPX 10.6 or earlier you will get a notification that the table was saved with a new version of VPX and that you might encounter problems playing it. 

If I build a table with the newest beta I stick to that new development version and don't try to play the table with older versions of VPX. Other authors do the same and if they release the table the mention that the table was built with a beta version of VPX 10.x.y.

[batch]

Ok, thanks

 

So, as I want VP10.6 users to be able to play my table L'Hexagone, I think I found the way to go back from VP10.7 to VP10.6

 

Here is what I did:

 

1 - Create a new table in VP10.6

 

2 - Delete everything, elements in the "Table view" and the "Backglass view", sounds in the "Sound Manager", images in the "Image Manager", materials in the "Material Manager", and text in the "script"

 

3 - Change dimensions for them to be the same than in the VP10.7 one

 

4 - Open the VP10.7 table in VP10.6

 

5 - Export all sounds, images and materials in a folder

 

6 - Import them into Sound, Image and Material Managers of the VP10.6 table

 

7 - Copy all the elements from the VP10.7 table "Table view" to the VP10.6 "Table view"

 

8 - Copy all the elements from the VP10.7 table "Backglass view" to the VP10.6 "Backglass view"

 

9 - Copy the script of the VP10.7 table to the one of the VP10.6 table

 

Its done !

 

It seems to work and ain't neither long nor difficult to do, just some little adjustments with layers, and Collections to do again

Edited by batch, 21 December 2020 - 06:14 PM.

[wiesshund]

Ok, thanks

 

So, as I want VP10.6 users to be able to play my table L'Hexagone, I think I found the way to go back from VP10.7 to VP10.6

 

Here is what I did:

 

1 - Create a new table in VP10.6

 

2 - Delete everything, elements in the "Table view" and the "Backglass view", sounds in the "Sound Manager", images in the "Image Manager", materials in the "Material Manager", and text in the "script"

 

3 - Change dimensions for them to be the same than in the VP10.7 one

 

4 - Open the VP10.7 table in VP10.6

 

5 - Export all sounds, images and materials in a folder

 

6 - Import them into Sound, Image and Material Managers of the VP10.6 table

 

7 - Copy all the elements from the VP10.7 table "Table view" to the VP10.6 "Table view"

 

8 - Copy all the elements from the VP10.7 table "Backglass view" to the VP10.6 "Backglass view"

 

9 - Copy the script of the VP10.7 table to the one of the VP10.6 table

 

Its done !

 

It seems to work and ain't neither long nor difficult to do, just some little adjustments with layers, and Collections to do again

 

Just do this....

Open table in a 10.7 older revision  rev 4356 works.
hit save, then exit

 

now table will open in 10.6 again, will play in it fine and edit in it fine

 

Everything after 4356 will not be compatible, even this last revision

tables will run OK, but they will have no textures, and trying to edit them in 10.6 will break them for any version.

 

I just used 4356 to take twilightzone back and forth from 10.7 rev 4364 to 10.6.1

repeatedly

Edited by wiesshund, 21 December 2020 - 09:27 PM.

[wiesshund]

This is a new version of VPX, and it was always expected, well i always expected anyways, that we would at some point
reach the stage where content created in new version does not work in old version, but new version will run old version content fine.

 

to me this is not alarming, it is the normal progression of things

[Segovia11]

Dear Development Team,

                                          I have recently been working with the PlaySound Method. Your Command reference states that restart is 0 or 1 ( only useful if useexisting is 1). Music will stop after using the StopSound method,

however, when the music is played again it restarts from the last stop position. Is the code running correctly ? or should it restart from the beginning. Its been like that for a few years now.

VPX.7 beta 4364 is looking good. Thank You for the good work.

Joseph Gofton

 

[fuzzel]

Ok, thanks
 
So, as I want VP10.6 users to be able to play my table L'Hexagone, I think I found the way to go back from VP10.7 to VP10.6
 
Here is what I did:
 
1 - Create a new table in VP10.6
 
2 - Delete everything, elements in the "Table view" and the "Backglass view", sounds in the "Sound Manager", images in the "Image Manager", materials in the "Material Manager", and text in the "script"
 
3 - Change dimensions for them to be the same than in the VP10.7 one
 
4 - Open the VP10.7 table in VP10.6
 
5 - Export all sounds, images and materials in a folder
 
6 - Import them into Sound, Image and Material Managers of the VP10.6 table
 
7 - Copy all the elements from the VP10.7 table "Table view" to the VP10.6 "Table view"
 
8 - Copy all the elements from the VP10.7 table "Backglass view" to the VP10.6 "Backglass view"
 
9 - Copy the script of the VP10.7 table to the one of the VP10.6 table
 
Its done !
 
It seems to work and ain't neither long nor difficult to do, just some little adjustments with layers, and Collections to do again

 
Just do this....

Open table in a 10.7 older revision  rev 4356 works.
hit save, then exit
 
now table will open in 10.6 again, will play in it fine and edit in it fine
 
Everything after 4356 will not be compatible, even this last revision
tables will run OK, but they will have no textures, and trying to edit them in 10.6 will break them for any version.
 
I just used 4356 to take twilightzone back and forth from 10.7 rev 4364 to 10.6.1
repeatedly

Do me favor and stop giving such wrong hints or information if you don't know the details how things work. If you want to build a table with VPX chose a version and build it with that version. But don't expect that this table will be playable with previous versions of vpx. This goes for all VP versions. If you want to test 10.7 than build a table with it but don't release it or play it for 10.6 or even 10.5. If it works it's more a coincidence than a feature.