1103 replies to this topic

[Tesla]

 

I purchased NXP's KL25Z from Amazon. I'm guessing it's a fairly standard "reference design PCB" because they all seem to look the same.

 

I was wondering if anyone knows if these PCBs are single-layer/double-sided (traces only on top and bottom where the components are soldered on)?

 

Also, since mine came without headers installed, should I be OK to go-ahead and solder them in? Have yall ever heard of someone doing that? 

 

1. As far as I know, NXP is the only manufacturer of these boards.  The schematics are published, although I don't think they're exactly open-source - I don't know if the license allows anyone else to manufacture them.  I think the schematics are published mostly as a form of documentation to assist those creating their own designs based on the CPU, which of course NXP would like to encourage.

 

2. I don't think there's any reason anyone would not want the headers. 

 

3. I wouldn't hesitate to install them; it's much easier to work with that way.

 

 

1. Thanks for that info. Yes, I want to solder-in the headers. I thought maybe the schematic and/or the official board-layout might have the specification for the required headers (exact form-factor, etc.).

 

2. Agreed.

 

3. Would you happen to know exactly what I need to order? 

[mjr]

I thought maybe the schematic and/or the official board-layout might have the specification for the required headers (exact form-factor, etc.).

 

Oh, sorry, I missed that you needed the part info.  They're just the ubiquitous 0.1" pin headers that you can find anywhere.  You can find specific part links on Mouser under "Standalone KL25Z" here:

 

http://mjrnet.org/pi...p?sid=partslist

 

...but the pin headers are a common type that you can buy anywhere that sells fine electronics.

[Tesla]

 

I thought maybe the schematic and/or the official board-layout might have the specification for the required headers (exact form-factor, etc.).

 

Oh, sorry, I missed that you needed the part info.  They're just the ubiquitous 0.1" pin headers that you can find anywhere.  You can find specific part links on Mouser under "Standalone KL25Z" here:

 

http://mjrnet.org/pi...p?sid=partslist

 

...but the pin headers are a common type that you can buy anywhere that sells fine electronics.

 

 

Excellent, thanks.

 

Would you happen to have a high-resolution pic of how the Standalone-KL25Z should look after the headers are installed? I'm assuming it needs to be built fairly perfectly to be able to plug into the other boards.

 

Do you have a document that describes what functionality I can hope to have by simply connecting discrete-components directly to the headers on the Standalone KL25Z? I'm assuming I can use some kind of wiring-harness or pig-tail ? (to keep it kinda modular) 

 

Finally, at what point does a pinball-cabinet builder decide that functionality is not enough and they need to connect the KL25Z to a larger board (like as a daughter-board) to accomplish their new objectives?

 

If it's allowed, I was hoping to use the KL25Z as Standalone (for analog variable-nudge) as I am now ... BUT ALSO a little more eventually by direct-connect of discrete-components directly to headers. When I out-grow that, I'll use it as a daughter-board (on whatever other boards I need). Do a bit of re-wiring and then keep expanding. Is this plan feasible?

Edited by Tesla, 02 April 2023 - 06:26 PM.

[mjr]

Would you happen to have a high-resolution pic of how the Standalone-KL25Z should look after the headers are installed? 

Not off-hand.  Just use reasonable care to keep the headers pressed flat against the board while you solder the first couple of pins.  Once the first couple of pins are soldered it will be effectively immovable, so soldering the rest is pretty much trivial.

 

 

Do you have a document that describes what functionality I can hope to have by simply connecting discrete-components directly to the headers on the Standalone KL25Z?

 

http://mjrnet.org/pi...sid=pscOverview

http://mjrnet.org/pi...e.php?sid=expan

 

 

If it's allowed, I was hoping to use the KL25Z as Standalone (for analog variable-nudge) as I am now ... BUT ALSO a little more eventually by direct-connect of discrete-components directly to headers. When I out-grow that, I'll use it as a daughter-board (on whatever other boards I need). Do a bit of re-wiring and then keep expanding. Is this plan feasible?

 

Sure, you can reconfigure the software for different hardware configurations at any time.

[chrimeg]

Hi mrj. So am I safe in assuming R39 can be substituted with a resistor under 1K as well. I know you mentioned R36 can as its tied to opto. R39 is also tied to opto IC so this is an assumption but didn't want to put 680 ohm in there and regret it after

[mjr]

Hi mrj. So am I safe in assuming R39 can be substituted with a resistor under 1K as well. I know you mentioned R36 can as its tied to opto. R39 is also tied to opto IC so this is an assumption but didn't want to put 680 ohm in there and regret it after

 

Substituting a 630R will probably be okay.  As with the other one, you're kind of pushing your luck by going higher, but hopefully your PC817's are forgiving enough that you can get away with it.  I'd personally just go order some 560R's from Mouser or Amazon or eBay - they're only about 10 cents apiece.

[MisterCoffee]

Hello Mike,

Hi guys,

first of all that you for making all this possible! I love the pinball community.
 

I am building my first pinscape vpin right now.
In addition to the pinscape main and power board I want to use the pinscape chime board, but I do not find any assembled version online. So I decided to use MJR´s plans from his dokumentation and order 5 assembled versions from elecrow. The process is pretty easy. The assembly cost is high but fair I guess.

Now they got two questions concerning the BOM.csv, which you can download at MJR´s documentation.

http://mjrnet.org/pi...hp?sid=expanFab or here for a part list: http://mjrnet.org/pi...p?sid=partslist

 

I do not understand how a PCB works, so I cannot answer them. Hopefully you can help me out.

 

In MJR´s BOM.csv there are some bypass oder resistor entries as below.
1. Part    Value    Attributes    Package    Description    Part Num
BYPASS1    0R        0207/10    RESISTOR, American symbol    *

Is it true that there is no part needed? A bypass means "skip it" more or less? A Resistor is not needed?

2. 21RZ310-RC is out of stock and it is P=2.5MM. The replacement Pitch CT4-0805B104K500F3 is 5mm. They think it will work. Will it?

Thank you very much for your help.

 

I don´t want to order bad chime boards.

Greetings from Germany.
MisterCoffee

[fhjui]

@MisterCoffee

>>In MJR´s BOM.csv there are some bypass oder resistor entries as below

please read mjr's remark in the chime schematic carefully, he has described in detail this part. -->

>>TIMER BYPASS

Each timer circuit can be individually bypassed

to convert the output to a simple untimed digital

out. To bypass a timer, omit all parts in timer

block (marked with outline on board silkscreen)

EXCEPT for PC817. Install a 0 Ohm resistor (or

jumper wire) for BYPASSn, and install a 270 Ohm

resistor in place of 2.2K and 47R adjacent to

PC817, as shown by diagonal line marked on board

silkscreen. This connects the PC817 anode to the

74HC595 output (through the 270 ohm resistor to

limit diode current), and connects the cathode to

ground, allowing the 74HC595 output to directly

control the MOSFET.

DO NOT POPULATE BYPASSn JUMPERS FOR

FULLY BUILT TIMER CIRCUITS.

 

To the point with the chime-pcb: why didn't you ask here or better in the german flipperforum.de, if someoe has a spare pcb ?

I have non pupulated chime-pcbs as spare, because the minimum quantity was 5 at jlcpcb (and many other pcb manufacturers

[mjr]

> Is it true that there is no part needed? A bypass means "skip it"

> more or less? A Resistor is not needed?

 

Right - if you're building out the full timer circuit block, DON'T include the bypass resistor.

 

(Just to be clear, "bypass" isn't any kind of technical PCB term, and it doesn't mean "skip it" by itself.  The technical term for "skip it" is usually "DO NOT POPULATE" marked on the schematic.  The bypass resistor in this case is just an alternate option you can install if you want to use an output circuit without building the timer portion.  So if you *are* building the timer portion, you *don't* use the bypass.  Hope that makes more sense now.)

 

> 21RZ310-RC is out of stock and it is P=2.5MM. The replacement Pitch

> CT4-0805B104K500F3 is 5mm. They think it will work. Will it?

 

I'm afraid that probably won't work very well.  The "pitch" for this kind of part is the space between the wire legs.  A 5mm pitch part will be hard to fit into the available space - the holes in the board are 2.5mm apart, so you'd have to bend the legs at a funny angle to get it to fit.  It's probably not impossible, but it would be awkward at best, and at worst, you'd leave a bunch of exposed wire that might cause random short circuits.  I'd look for another part that's the right size - it's a really common capacitor type so there should be lots of options.

[MisterCoffee]

Thank you both for explaining the technical terms.

I didn´t see that in the schematic. This is like a new language for me:-)

 

So just to be sure I get it right with my missing english skills mixed with technical terms... If I want to build a real chime board with timer option I need the 0207/10 resistors?

 

Thank you @fhjui for your offer. But I am looking for a assemled chime board. This seems to be impossible. I can solder a bit, but I am pretty sure, I would need hours and do someting wrong at the end. 

 

Concerning the 21RZ310-RC I will ask elecrow to look for another part with the right size.

[mjr]

> So just to be sure I get it right with my missing english skills mixed with technical terms...

> If I want to build a real chime board with timer option I need the 0207/10 resistors?

 

Right, you need to install everything EXCEPT the "BYPASS" resistors.

 

It might be best if you edited the Eagle files before sending them to Elecrow and manually delete all of the BYPASS parts entirely.  Just delete each BYPASS resistor from the schematic, and then re-generate the Gerber files.  That would ensure that there's no confusion at Elecrow.

 

> Concerning the 21RZ310-RC I will ask elecrow to look for another part with the right size.

 

Here's a Mouser search for suitable parts, in case it helps:

 

https://www.mouser.c...=y&sort=pricing

(That search turns up 51 in-stock options.)

Edited by mjr, 09 May 2023 - 07:32 PM.

[MisterCoffee]

> It might be best if you edited the Eagle files before sending them to Elecrow and manually delete all of the BYPASS parts entirely

 

It is the first time I use eagle, but I guess, I made it:-) If I remove the BYPASS a GND remains. This should be removed as well, right?

 

In the BOM.csv I just delete the lines Bypass 1 to 8, right?

 

Elecrow already added a DNP to these lines. Guess this means "do not populate", so it seems like they did it right already.

But anyway I will clean the gerber file.

 

Thank you for the mouser link. This really helps.

Now I see, what I misunderstood all the time. The bypass is a 0207/10 resistor. I thought it is a "or" inbetween. Like bypass or 0207/10 resistor. But "or" ist the option of the whole line.

Well building a vpin lets you learn a lot. The building makes same fun as playing.

[mjr]

> If I remove the BYPASS a GND remains. This should be removed as well, right?

 

You can just leave the disconnected GND - it won't have any effect on the board.  But it's also perfectly fine to delete it.  It does look a little messy to just leave it floating out there.

 

> Elecrow already added a DNP to these lines. Guess this means "do not populate",

> so it seems like they did it right already.

 

That's exactly right.  I was just being overly cautious.

 

> The bypass is a 0207/10 resistor. I thought it is a "or" inbetween. Like bypass

> or 0207/10 resistor. But "or" ist the option of the whole line.

 

Ah, I see!  That "0R" notation for "Zero Ohms" *is* a little confusing, now that you mention it.

[MisterCoffee]

> Ah, I see!  That "0R" notation for "Zero Ohms" *is* a little confusing, now that you mention it.

 

Like I said, this is a new language for me:-)

 

I think I´ve got it now. Guess elecrow does not need a new gerber then. But I will ask them just to be sure.

 

Thank you for your help. I am looking forward to my new chime board.

[BoPaul]

Oh I found you mjr... why didn't I look here first.

 

I accidentally got a kl26z and since i looked so similar thought maybe it would work. So I got down a rabbit hold of just getting it to work on win 11, and finally got it accepting binaries, and was glad the pinscape bin loaded.

 

However as I see you mentioned it's internally different enough to not work completely. All the buttons are on except PTE22 works, which is odd.

 

But since my main reason for the board was nudge, I am glad to see the accelerometer does show up! So maybe I got it for that at least, and I'll but one of those cheap encoders off amazon for buttons.

 

Anyway before this I was going to ask if a simple rebuild of the source with a new target would work but it sounds like no. Not that using the sdk is straightforward but I did get that going too, but what a rabbit hole!

 

Thanks for all the work on it though, the software is really nice especially the configurator.

 

 

 

HI,
for the KL26Z board did you use Mjr's Pinscape software exactly or did you modify it?
I just need the accelerometer functionality.
Thank you.

[Tesla]

 

I accidentally got a kl26z and since i looked so similar thought maybe it would work.

.... as I see you mentioned it's internally different enough to not work completely. 

 

 

HI,
for the KL26Z board did you use Mjr's Pinscape software exactly or did you modify it?
I just need the accelerometer functionality.
 

 

 

Ambitious.

 

However, if you just want a working Accelerometer ... one that works with MJR's Pinscape ... I think it would be easier to just order and install the correct board KL25z.

Edited by Tesla, 18 May 2023 - 04:25 PM.

[BoPaul]

 

 

I accidentally got a kl26z and since i looked so similar thought maybe it would work.

.... as I see you mentioned it's internally different enough to not work completely. 

 

 

HI,
for the KL26Z board did you use Mjr's Pinscape software exactly or did you modify it?
I just need the accelerometer functionality.
 

 

 

Ambitious.

 

However, if you just want a working Accelerometer ... one that works with MJR's Pinscape ... I think it would be easier to just order and install the correct board KL25z.

 

Yes, that's true, but they can't be found...

I have now ordered a KL26Z, do you have any other alternatives to suggest?

Thank you.

[Tesla]

 

 

Ambitious.

 

However, if you just want a working Accelerometer ... one that works with MJR's Pinscape ... I think it would be easier to just order and install the correct board KL25z.

 

Yes, that's true, but they can't be found...

I have now ordered a KL26Z, do you have any other alternatives to suggest?

Thank you.

 

 

They have some KL25z here. 

[BoPaul]

 

 

 

Ambitious.

 

However, if you just want a working Accelerometer ... one that works with MJR's Pinscape ... I think it would be easier to just order and install the correct board KL25z.

 

Yes, that's true, but they can't be found...

I have now ordered a KL26Z, do you have any other alternatives to suggest?

Thank you.

 

 

They have some KL25z here. 

 

Thank you.
But are there alternatives to this card or is it the only solution to implement an accelerometer?

[mjr]

> But are there alternatives to this card or is it the only solution to implement an accelerometer?

 

Are you planning to create your own software, or did you want to run the Pinscape software?  If you're just looking for a platform for writing some new software, then yes, there are a couple of other dev boards out there that have on-board accelerometers.  If you wanted to run the Pinscape software, I'm afraid it only runs on the KL25Z.