4027 replies to this topic

[batch]

Hi,

 

@fuzzel/toxie:

 

Would it be possible to have a "In Use" column in the Sound Manager, like in the Image and Material Managers ?

[Thalamus]

@batch : I don't think that can become reliable. Just looking at the "standard" ballrolling routine. It depends on how many balls that are on the table, what name to use etc.

[wiesshund]

Hi,

 

@fuzzel/toxie:

 

Would it be possible to have a "In Use" column in the Sound Manager, like in the Image and Material Managers ?

 

Sounds have no "In Use" state to query against as sounds are only pointed at in the script
unlike images they are never hard attached to anything

[onemanproject]

VPX Crash:

 

Crash report VPX rev4307
============
Process: vpinballx.exe
Reason: 0xC0000005 - EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION at 0023:0058435F
Attempt to read from 0x125F2E08
Thread ID: 0x3BB4 [15284]

Call stack
==========
0058435F vpinballx.exe (0x0019FBA0 0x00499F7E 0x00030222 0x0019fba0)
00499F7E vpinballx.exe (0x00030222 0x00040FC2 0x00030222 0x0019fba0)
00427F1F vpinballx.exe (0x00000111 0x00030222 0x00040FC2 0x00040f88)
00499BFF vpinballx.exe (0x00000111 0x00030222 0x00040FC2 0x00000111)
00425F66 vpinballx.exe (0x00425F10 0x00040F88 0x00000111 0x00030222)
76F92676 USER32.dll EnumChildWindows + 0xC66 (0x00040F88 0x00000111 0x00030222 0x00040fc2)
76F91DE0 USER32.dll EnumChildWindows + 0x3D0 (0x03ABCE60 0x00000000 0x00000111 0x00030222)
76F86A15 USER32.dll wvsprintfA + 0x2D5 (0x00040F88 0x00000111 0x00030222 0x00040fc2)
76F9EF6B USER32.dll AddClipboardFormatListener + 0x4B (0x76F869F0 0x00040F88 0x00000111 0x00030222)
76F95EFA USER32.dll GetClassLongW + 0x7AA (0xFFFFFFFF8830BB20 0x00007FFF 0x00000111 0x00030222)
76F952D9 USER32.dll GetSystemMetricsForDpi + 0x1459 (0x03ABCE60 0x00000000 0x00040FC2 0x00000000)
76FBF100 USER32.dll Ordinal1502 + 0x2110 (0x1310DD40 0x00000000 0x00000007 0x00000000)
76FBE862 USER32.dll Ordinal1502 + 0x1872 (0x1310DD40 0x00000000 0x03AE0750 0x00000007)
76FBD61F USER32.dll Ordinal1502 + 0x62F (0x03AE0750 0x00000000 0x00000007 0x00040f88)
76FBD30B USER32.dll Ordinal1502 + 0x31B (0x00040FC2 0x00000007 0x00040F88 0x00000000)
76F9EF6B USER32.dll AddClipboardFormatListener + 0x4B (0x776166C0 0x00040FC2 0x00000007 0x00040f88)
76F95EFA USER32.dll GetClassLongW + 0x7AA (0x776166C0 0x00000000 0x00000007 0x00040f88)
76F95AFA USER32.dll GetClassLongW + 0x3AA (0x03AE0750 0x00000000 0x00000007 0x00040f88)
76F996BF USER32.dll CallNextHookEx + 0x19F (0x0019D9CC 0x00000020 0x0019DB70 0x77603a20)
77603AED ntdll.dll KiUserCallbackDispatcher + 0x4D (0x03ABCE60 0x00000000 0x00000007 0x00080e60)
76F86A15 USER32.dll wvsprintfA + 0x2D5 (0x00040F88 0x00000007 0x00080E60 0x00000000)
76F9EF6B USER32.dll AddClipboardFormatListener + 0x4B (0x77616700 0x00040F88 0x00000007 0x00080e60)
76F95EFA USER32.dll GetClassLongW + 0x7AA (0x77616700 0x00000000 0x00000007 0x00080e60)
76F95AFA USER32.dll GetClassLongW + 0x3A76F996BF USER32.ntd
Environment
===========
Date/time: 26/11/2020, 14:51:27:178
Number of CPUs: 16
Processor type: 586
System: Windows 10 (10.0 19042)

Memory status
=============
Total Reserved: 111632K (109M) bytes
Total Commited: 664472K (648M) bytes
Total Free: 3418136K (3338M) bytes
Largest Free: 2095468K (2046M) bytes

Registers
=========
EAX=FFFFFDC4 EBX=0019CD28 ECX=0019CD14 EDX=030E0000
ESI=125F3040 EDI=FFFFFFFF EBP=0019DD10 ESP=0019DC28 EIP=77603AED
FLG=00210282 CS=0023 DS=002B SS=002B ES=002B FS=0053 GS=002B


Mini dump saved successfully.
 

[tgx]

 

 

Not yet. It's on my todo list to investigate how they implemented these new physics MODs and how to map them to the internal engine, but the list is loooooooog.  ;/

Hit me up when you're ready to dig in to the physics stuff.  Wish I was a better coder so I could start digging in on my own.

 

When I show serious Pinheads my cab, and the awesome stuff that the community has created, they are normally very very impressed...except when it comes to play physics. One of the questions I always ask is, "what would it take to get you seriously into VP"? The most common answer is gameplay, and how it plays compared to a real machine. Its never the visuals or sounds, its always how that ball plays and the play experience in general. I cant express enough what a downer it was to these guys, when the ball would just drop into a saucer in such a video-game, or binary looking way. I think Its things like that IMO, that can negatively impact the play experience, and I am very glad that this particular issue has received some attention here in 10.7.

 

I can show off a very high quality table that does not have the physics enhancement (hacks) that Roth and others have been using more frequently, and their overall impression will be a bit lacking. But when I show off a very nicely tuned table with these physics hacks, they immediately take notice and always comment that if more tables played that way, they would be much more likely to jump into the hobby and run wild with it. Its the tables with the hacks like this, that they will play on my cab over and over again, just like they would a real pin. Come to think of it, its the same tables that I play over and over as well.

 

My take-away is that if we can get the already very good VP10 physics to take another step forward, I think it would pay dividends by getting more folks involved and likely contributing to the hobby. I think we all know where the physics deficiencies are, and we are fortunate to have the hacks available to address them. But it is just no feasible to add these hacks to the tables in our collections, and the sooner we can get roll them into the engine, the better the overall experience will be.

 

I completely understand that the list of improvements is long, and Toxie and fuzzle are doing a tremendously good job in making things better. I really do  believe that there can be tremendous possible benefits in advancing gameplay physics as soon as its feasible to do so.  I can see the more serious Pinheads getting involved who would now likely reject VP for the reasons stated. That could mean more authors, more quality tables and greater overall experience for everybody involved.

 

Just wanted to mention that.

 

I have found that a lot of the physics issues are a result of the table construction. It is a very challenging thing to get right. Every surface, post, slope angle affects the physics of a real table. If those aren't applied in a consistent manner the virtual table will feel off. I notice a lot of issues on old tables that replicate vintage machines. Overpowered kickers, super elastic rubbers, too strong flippers etc. One of the biggest improvements I recently discovered for vintage tables is upping the ball mass to something like 1.2 really improves the feel to me and reduces ball speed without making it 'floaty' like you get with a simple slope adjustment. Bottom line is, VPX can improve the baseline physics but what is really needed is a VPX guide to creating believable physics during table construction OR for VPX to automatically assign a 'normal' physics value to any new element created, say 'here is a rubber post, it should have these characteristics in most cases', would be even cooler if it assigned a standard sound. Those are the kinds of things that could greatly reduce the time to create a believable table.

[wiesshund]

Pretty hard to assign a standard sound, or physic

What is a "Wall" ?
What is a "Rubber"

When is a wall not a wall and a ramp not a ramp?
When is a rubber plastic?

The answer can be a vast number of things

That is why we have layers and materials and collections
VPX is a toolbox, the onus is on the author to properly apply the tools.

If you really want to improve a vintage table, take a look at JP's physics 3.0 templates
use those as a starting point, and then fine tune it and/or add to it as needed.

And 10.7 will give you an unlimited amount of layers with which to sort and sub divide all the tables collision parts

Soundwise, you can already quickly assign the appropriate collision sound to 1200 pin rubbers
by using collections, and a small bit of VB script

 

Sub aRubber_Pins_Hit(idx):PlaySoundAtBall "fx_rubber_pin":End Sub

mostly what toxie could do, is simply give an assortment of premade physics materials to get you going.

[jpsalas]

VPX comes with a standard set of values, which works quite well. The physics values are detailed in the file "PhysicValues.txt" that comes with VPX. Those are the default values. My "Arcade Physics 3.0" are my own view of how those values should be for the different materials, and you could say they are for advanced authors who know what they are doing, same for the values used by wrd1972, clarkkent, nfozzy, Rothbauer and others. Every author has it's own approach to how to tune the physics on all the objects. But the default values work quite well. And I mean a new author should not concern too much about physics, and simply used those standard values as described in PhysicValues.txt

[ClarkKent]

The maximum ball speed is a good thing...

[Gravy]

Not sure if this is entirely the best thread to ask but here goes anyway.

 

After owning an Xbox One S and then an Xbox One X for the last few years it has only just recently come to my attention that it's possible to run these consoles in developer mode ( I think it's $20 or something to unlock that feature via MS Store). They are then able to run UWP (Universal Windows Platform) applications (not sure why I never knew this until this week, but there you go).

 

So naturally my next question is, has the dev team ever considered porting VP to UWP for this purpose as it may be quite a cheap and powerful platform to run VP on?

That being said, it may also be a nightmare or not possible due to all the external table files/roms/pinmame etc. Apparently there is a whole world of emulation as well that I didnt realise existed on Xbox one using dev mode.

 

Perhaps this may also be an avenue that the Unity developers might consider?

Edited by Gravy, 27 November 2020 - 03:02 AM.

[wiesshund]

Might be more suited to Unity?

I dont think UWP can access and use DirectX 9, and VPX is written to use DX9
Changing an app from DX9 to DX11+ is anything but a simple easy task, it's a whole other world of hell and torture.

And i wish Toxie had like 20 other coders to plow through that hell as quick and painlessly as possible
It would definitely open up a world of new possibilities, but the unity project may be the answer to that anyways

 

[wiesshund]

What: VPX 10.7 crash

What the hell were you doing: I was adjusting POV on an FSS layout, so launching and exiting and changing and relaunching the table a bit

Is it repeatable: Yes

 

Crash report VPX rev4307

============

Process: VPinballX.exe

Reason: 0xC0000005 - EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION at 0023:00525EC0

Attempt to read from 0x0D689E5C

Thread ID: 0xCDC [3292]

 

Call stack

==========

00525EC0 VPinballX.exe (0x24AE7470 0x0000000F 0x0D686440 0x0d686440)

0052706C VPinballX.exe (0x03011D2B 0x00060E60 0x0D686440 0x00426cd0)

005318D2 VPinballX.exe (0x0000000F 0x00000000 0x00000000 0x0000000f)

00426D1F VPinballX.exe (0x00426CD0 0x00060E60 0x0000000F 0x00000000)

76315EFA USER32.dll GetClassLongW + 0x7AA (0x00426CD0 0x00000000 0x0000000F 0x00000000)

76315AFA USER32.dll GetClassLongW + 0x3AA (0x036A6C60 0x00000000 0x0000000F 0x00000000)

763196BF USER32.dll CallNextHookEx + 0x19F (0x0019EA44 0x00000020 0x0019EAAC 0x77543a20)

77543AED ntdll.dll KiUserCallbackDispatcher + 0x4D (0x0019EC14 0x005B5FB2 0x0019EAE4 0x00000000)

76305DB0 USER32.dll DispatchMessageA + 0x10 (0x0019EAE4 0x00000000 0x00000001 0x0019eb00)

005B5FB2 VPinballX.exe (0x00000000 0x0073E170 0x00000000 0x00000000)

00330BBE  (0x0073E170 0x00000000 0x00000000 0x00000000)

 

Environment

===========

Date/time: 28/11/2020, 16:40:27:88

Number of CPUs: 8

Processor type: 586

System: Windows 10 (10.0 19042)

 

Memory status

=============

Total Reserved: 224404K (219M) bytes

Total Commited: 1681520K (1642M) bytes

Total Free: 2288316K (2234M) bytes

Largest Free: 1830792K (1787M) bytes

 

Registers

=========

EAX=00003800 EBX=0D6864E8 ECX=0D689E5C EDX=0D689E5C

ESI=24AE7470 EDI=0D689E5D EBP=00755648 ESP=0019EC1C EIP=00330BBE

FLG=00210206 CS=0023 DS=002B SS=002B ES=002B FS=0053 GS=002B

 

 

Failed to save minidump.

[wiesshund]

Random but recurring error on table launches
happens when either;

opening, running exiting, then closing, then opening a new table and repeating the process

or when launching and exiting, then maybe editing, then relaunching a table after a random number of successive time

 

No crash log is made, but here is the error visually (in 2 parts)
And don't laugh at the donkey, he don't like when you laugh at him.
 

 

 

[kiwi]

I don't know if this has already been reported.

Making a change to the colors of the Editor/UI, the color options window at first does not update the changed color,

it always changes the default color of the material, but it's just a matter of closing and reopening the options window to find the colors just edited.

[fuzzel]

I don't know if this has already been reported.

Making a change to the colors of the Editor/UI, the color options window at first does not update the changed color,

it always changes the default color of the material, but it's just a matter of closing and reopening the options window to find the colors just edited.

Thanks is already fixed and comes with the next update

@fuzzel/toxie:

 

Is it possible to add elasticity falloff to the walls? the same as in the rubbers and primitives?

Yes that's possible. The property is actually part of the wall properties but set to 0.0  

[toxie]

Hi guys.. Similar to fuzzel i was also a bit out of the loop here in this thread due to way too much things going on in real life (especially work)..

And then spending my spare time rather on PinMAME than on VPX recently, digging through my ton of 'leftovers' in there..

Will try to go through some of the stuff that piled up here.

Had a chat with Cyberpez about inserts. We have been trying to find best ways to make VPX to render edges and the prints on the inserts. The main issue has been that VPX doesn't render alpha channel on PF image properly. Or we haven't found a way to do it as Alpha Mask value only cuts the semitransparent pixels out. So this means that when there is a hole in the PF PNG, the edges will appear jagged and alpha blend smoothing will disappear. Here's example image from 4k pf:

 

In the PNG there is alpha blend smoothing, but it gets removed in game. We at Vpin Workshop have found out a way to workaround this by making the text AND the outline of the insert with additional PF sized flasher that hides these jagged pixels:

 

 

There are still some jagged pixels coming through, but overall it looks better. On BadCats we also had these edges hidden using flasher, but there this issue is not visible as we used a huge 4100x8800 PF image. Future proof you know...

 

So the question is! Could there be a way to fix this issue in 10.7? So that the edge pixels of a hole could be alpha blended when rendered. This would make insert integration much easier and we should not need to use there PF sized flasher for insert texts.

This is due to VPX pre-rendering as many things as possible to get good performance on lower end systems.

Due to this, the depth and alpha are per-pixel composited.  :/

 

What: VPX 10.7 crash

What the hell were you doing: I was adjusting POV on an FSS layout, so launching and exiting and changing and relaunching the table a bit

Is it repeatable: Yes

 

Which table was this?

Hi, I don't know the reason but this tables crash with the 10.7 beta 4307 : Half-Life (TBA 2019) and Dragon Ball Z VPX 1.06

Anybody else seeing this? Cause for me both work. Could you please show your video preferences?

[fuzzel]

@fuzzel/toxie:
 
Is it possible to add elasticity falloff to the walls? the same as in the rubbers and primitives?

You will get that with the next update

[jpsalas]

 

@fuzzel/toxie:
 
Is it possible to add elasticity falloff to the walls? the same as in the rubbers and primitives?

You will get that with the next update

 

 

That will be nice, as with the walls I can get perfect surfaces for the ball to collide with. Using rubbers is not just the same, although the rubbers are easy to change and form, but walls are much easier and give better results

[wiesshund]

 

 

What: VPX 10.7 crash

What the hell were you doing: I was adjusting POV on an FSS layout, so launching and exiting and changing and relaunching the table a bit

Is it repeatable: Yes

 

Which table was this?

 

 

Pretty much any that use FSS since you cant use camera mode to adjust those in one shot.

[fuzzel]

after a long break rev4351 is up:

 

- add ElasticityFalloff to the wall physics properties

- fix color button not showing the correct color in the editor preferences dialog

- support to add custom notes to a table. To open a dockable notes dialog use the menu View -> Notes. Any text that was entered there is saved with the current active table.

  The notes handling might have some issues when switching between tables and the notes dialog is open.

- update JPs physics recommendations

- always set higher precision timer AND use very high precision timer resolution (if possible 0.5ms)

- improve quality and performance of internal DMD shader (especially visible on FSS tables)

- license stuff updated

[wiesshund]

 

after a long break rev4351 is up:

 

- add ElasticityFalloff to the wall physics properties

- fix color button not showing the correct color in the editor preferences dialog

- support to add custom notes to a table. To open a dockable notes dialog use the menu View -> Notes. Any text that was entered there is saved with the current active table.

  The notes handling might have some issues when switching between tables and the notes dialog is open.

- update JPs physics recommendations

- always set higher precision timer AND use very high precision timer resolution (if possible 0.5ms)

- improve quality and performance of internal DMD shader (especially visible on FSS tables)

- license stuff updated

 

 

Oh goody

Breaking it now

er i mean downloading