105 replies to this topic

[Shockman]

Is there anything unique and needed in the .tar file?
Is there a project file? All I see is a list of the files.
Is there a way to just download the whole package?

[destruk]

The tarball is a complete copy of all revisions of the SVN tree, including all source code for all versions of VP we have. Nothing is left out. It is the complete package.

[Shockman]

I added some defaults, like rubber on the flipper, and my favorite ball.
I also did some experimental re-construction on the plunger and flipper.

I still don't see how to initiate a build though, but I'm still working on that.

[Bob5453]

I added some defaults, like rubber on the flipper, and my favorite ball.
I also did some experimental re-construction on the plunger and flipper.

I still don't see how to initiate a build though, but I'm still working on that.

I figured the plunger would be one of the first things done, so I didn't bother adding plunger with spring images to the last few tables I updated.

If you replace the ball image, does this example attached still work?

I would have posted this in the thread pointing to a new version, but the thread vanished. Maybe a new thread would be nice.

Attached Files

•  Ball_Changing_Color.vpt   45.5KB   5 downloads

[Shockman]

I did not change anything but the texture of the ball. Any function that alters one texture will alter another, so though I have not tried it, I would say yes, it will still work.
I have not been able see any of these changes because I have not figured out how to compile it yet. I figured there would me a project file with all the includes, so I could just alter any or all files and re-compile.

I figured the link would be deleted, that's why I downloaded it as soon as I could.

It's a shame, because it did not alter the code at all. In fact it was not a recompile at all. It used a resource editor to add a shiny ball. If there was any problem at all it would have been with the name, and that could have been addressed. If that happens to me and my offering, with just a friggen link to it, shit is going to hit the fan. The people or person that deleted that do not own it any more than anyone else and have no more rights to it than anyone else.

[Noah Fentz]

...
I figured the link would be deleted, that's why I downloaded it as soon as I could.

It's a shame, because it did not alter the code at all. In fact it was not a recompile at all. It used a resource editor to add a shiny ball. If there was any problem at all it would have been with the name, and that could have been addressed. If that happens to me and my offering, with just a friggen link to it, shit is going to hit the fan. The people or person that deleted that do not own it any more than anyone else and have no more rights to it than anyone else.

It was a hack, not a new compile, Shocky, and this is why it was archived (not deleted), and why we ask they be submitted first. We don't need a load of versions all with conflicting and confusing nomenclature.

The idea here is to be as organized and as proper as possible to avoid confusion.

I hope I don't have to explain this again in the future. I thought three times should have been sufficient.

[Shockman]

I know what it is. I said in my post it was not a compile.

You can't expect the whole world to have the same rules for development as your team have for their development.

It was just a link to a version that had a shiny ball. Your team knows everyone wants a shiny ball, but instead they concentrate, it seems, on a niche, that is Pinball Wizard hardware and multi-display. The bulk of the users have no use for that, and it comes at a cost of breaking a lot of things to get it. To not allow someone to announce and offer a link to their own versions of VP makes no sense at all, not if you say it does 3 times or 3 hundred times. Instead if you could explain just once why your build is the only one you think should exist.

[Noah Fentz]

As I've already explained, this is a matter of minimizing confusion and support problems.

We can't be expected to answer questions and provide support for dozens of builds, dude, it's just not practical, nor can we have a 'fix' version breaking authors' tables. All tables here should work with the builds we host. By linking to other builds, it just creates problems. It doesn't take an extraordinary amount of foresight to see that coming.

If anyone ... ANYONE has something they want to contribute to the build we support, they are encouraged to do so by submitting it.

I'm not seeing why this is so difficult to comprehend.

[Shockman]

The reason it is hard to understand is that some people might want to work on VP but not be part of the team here. You can't expect everyone in the world to submit their work to you or destruk for approval. You have got to accept that just because someone is not part of your group, that does not mean that their builds of VP are in any way less official. Your team does not own it and they have no control over it. The community wants improvements. There is no way that including a shiny ball, or redesigning the plunger is going to break things like changing the mechanics to support a small number of hardware devices have for everyone that does not own the devices has.
Some people, myself included are going to concentrate on getting VP to run as well as possible, and as designed, as a Windows game to run on a desktop computer.
When I get my build done I will hope it will be offered in a thread here at the pinball forums where it would be expected to be. You will have no place, obligation, nor right to support it, and field questions about it. It will break nothing, and there will be no questions about it. But if there is a question about it I will answer it in the thread I offered it in. Does this not sound good to you? I bet it sounds good to your membership.

It looks like VP9.08 is not going to be released till a bunch of stuff is done to it. Given it's track record of breaking things, you are going to have questions about so many things all at once.

A build with a shiny ball, a realistic shaped plunger tip, and nudging, would make VP better regardless of who created it. Dead zone tweaking for analog devices will make VP better for what? a few score?

Open source means it is open. If you allow no notice of any other than your build, you are hijacking it, and that is disrespectful no end. You nor destruk are working on VP8, destruk said VP8 is dead. VP9 is breaking desktop function in favor of a niche. So we are not even talking about the same program, let alone anything that could be merged into one project.

[Noah Fentz]

No longer interested in discussing it.

We will not support or provide links to any unauthorized builds ... period.

I listed you many reasons already via PM and there is even more than that.

First and foremost, to allow one is to allow all. Not going to happen. Anyone could build a VP version that wipes out your harddrive! Awesome! Let's have links to that on our site!

HELL NO!

We are not saying that VP isn't open source, and we are not saying no one else can work on it. What we ARE saying is links to unapproved VP builds will be removed in the interest of the security of our members and our site's reputation. No one will ever have to worry about our builds, and that's all we want here.

If you visit the MAME site, there is only ONE version there ... their own APPROVED version. We are no different in that philosophy.

End of discussion.

[highrise]

If something is open source, of course you can make your own version - but there is NO way you should be releasing something that gives the impression that it is somehow an 'official' release. At best it is confusing and at worst disingenuous. It goes against the whole spirit of open source. If you want to make your own version, you should give it a name which VERY clearly distinguishes it so that people know what it is. If you don't do that, you run the risk of being ostracised by the very community you want to support. I totally agree with Noah stance on this, to me it's not really that different to modding a table and announcing it not as a mod, but as an 'improved' version. That's totally subjective and is the whole reason why you need an official team that can be impartial.

[FDSystems]

, destruk said VP8 is dead. VP9 is breaking desktop function in favor of a niche.

What is you opinion about that?

[epthegeek]

You have got to accept that just because someone is not part of your group, that does not mean that their builds of VP are in any way less official.

That's EXACTLY what it means! The build that comes from the 'official' group, with approval of the team and the maintainer IS _THE_ official build. No others.

[Greywolf]

This is exactly the scenario I imagined happening once I read that VP was open source, which was why I suggested that there be a core set of people to manage the distributions. Letting the cat this far out of the bag, I feel, was a mistake.

That said, there can really only be one true distribution, and that is the one built from the versioned code. If it's not built from there, it is not "official", and support for it is not guaranteed. Unfortunately, we now cannot discern between malicious versions, hacked versions, "official" versions, and all the variants included therein (distributions, patches, modules, etc).

All because people can't be bothered to play nice.

I retain my original position on this: if you want features put in, submit them for inclusion. If they are not included, there should probably be a very good reason for it, i.e. it's a subset of a feature that is already present, or it is a superfluous feature which bloats more than it contributes.

However things transpire, we really do need a good solid way of creating an Official Distribution with indisputable signing that says This Is An Official Version and can be corroborated by This Site [some site somewhere]. But, because the source is in the wild, there is no way to do this because anyone with brains could engineer this mechanism for Their Distribution.

[highrise]

I think 99.9% of people will agree with these principles. The community wants an official team and a sanctioned release. The community does NOT want random, unregulated releases with minor changes or tweaks mixed with personal opinion about what needs to change.

[Shockman]

There are versions of mame for Windows desktop display, versions for various consoles, a version for arcade monitors, a version specializing in enhancing analog devices. They when active was always based on a current version of MAME and they all have their uses.

VP can use some variations as well. A single version with focus on Pinball Wizard hardware, and cabinets is not good for the community. It's only good for that niche. A shiny ball could have been put in at any point in 20 seconds or less, and it will not erase your hard drive. Dead zone, and math optimization. These things are good, but they are not going to help the lion's share of the users. We use a keyboard, and without using three monitors with one rotated, the execution speed is no issue. VP9 might work a dream on three monitors with a real plunger, but it don't work as well on a desktop computer as VP8 or any previous version does.

This crap with the cabinets and Pinball Wizard should be a derivative, not the official build, with everything that improves the Windows desktop game deleted. The wizard might nudge the table fine, I don't know, but the function is broke without it. It should be fixed and released, and I don't care who or what group does it, and that's just one example. I have a version that uses a steel looking pinball, instead of an aluminium looking one. I'm working on one that has a steel rod and slender tip, and a spring. These are the things that are going to appeal to the masses. I don't know why someone needs a real plunger if they don't have a real ball for it. I could see it as an alternative version, but a friggen niche is just plain stupid for a bully version. Friggen STUPID.

[FDSystems]

VP9 might work a dream on three monitors with a real plunger, but it don't work as well on a desktop computer as VP8 or any previous version does.

Unfortunately, this is true.
At least for the time being ...

[Noah Fentz]

There are versions of mame for Windows desktop display, versions for various consoles, a version for arcade monitors, a version specializing in enhancing analog devices. They when active was always based on a current version of MAME and they all have their uses.

VP can use some variations as well. A single version with focus on Pinball Wizard hardware, and cabinets is not good for the community. It's only good for that niche. A shiny ball could have been put in at any point in 20 seconds or less, and it will not erase your hard drive. Dead zone, and math optimization. These things are good, but they are not going to help the lion's share of the users. We use a keyboard, and without using three monitors with one rotated, the execution speed is no issue. VP9 might work a dream on three monitors with a real plunger, but it don't work as well on a desktop computer as VP8 or any previous version does.

This crap with the cabinets and Pinball Wizard should be a derivative, not the official build, with everything that improves the Windows desktop game deleted. The wizard might nudge the table fine, I don't know, but the function is broke without it. It should be fixed and released, and I don't care who or what group does it, and that's just one example. I have a version that uses a steel looking pinball, instead of an aluminium looking one. I'm working on one that has a steel rod and slender tip, and a spring. These are the things that are going to appeal to the masses. I don't know why someone needs a real plunger if they don't have a real ball for it. I could see it as an alternative version, but a friggen niche is just plain stupid for a bully version. Friggen STUPID.

It's unfortunate that you're just not getting it. If you feel that's the way it should be, then simply post your suggestions or submit your changes.

There will be no other versions made available on this site other than those approved by the Dev Team, and that's all I got to say about that.

Unless you're posting on topic, please start a new topic for your posting needs.

Thank you.

[Shockman]

I ain't gonna submit anything.


What is the topic anyway?

I think you are the one not getting it. I am not working on VP9, I am working on VP8. Submit it to a team that is moving away from this to support hardware they and very few others have. You can not be serious. You don't want it, you would have no use for it, it could not be integrated.

[Noah Fentz]

This topic is for inviting programmers.