106 replies to this topic

[mayuh]

As I'm going to build a cabinet, it wouldn't be a waste of money to go for a 3DTV, right?
I'd like to go for this one http://www.lg.com/de...-37LM611S-3d-tv as it goes for 480 incl. VAT.

I'm looking forward to see VP in 3D in action! :-)

Thanks,
Mario.

Edited by mayuh, 04 October 2012 - 07:16 AM.

[toxie]

i went for the LG LW 5400 because they were insanely cheap to get at amazon at some point and feature a very thin frame (so i didn't have to de-case them).. but i guess every LG should hopefully work fine..

apart from that, most real life stuff is sorted out now and i hope to tackle the final bug around this weekend..

[mayuh]

...that's a nice option too :-) I just tried your pictures on my 55" LG, because I wondered why it would be necescary to rotate the circular polarized filters in the glasses. But as I thought It just works that way too. Plus the color shifts are gone completely at 90° CCW too. Which happens at -/+ 20° if you'd tilt your head.

As for the LG TV I would recommend Top/Down 3D input, as it is line by line polarized, thus keeping the full possible resolution (2x 1920x540). Side by side would resize the input from 960x1080 to 2x 1920x540, resulting in a 920x540 image.

Sorry for being "klugscheisserisch" :-), but I'm doing stereoscopic for 20 years now. Anyway, if you'd need anything, just let me know! I can easily get some Pol-Glasses with -90° rotated filters, if anyone needs them, from my 3D suppliers.

On a side note:
Regarding those autostereoscopic displays (like the triality) questions, I really have to say, they are crap. Sorry. But with their lenticular mask the resolition is always divided by the possible number of view points. That means, like the triality has 9, you only get 213 pixels from a full HD image. I have done at least 10 films for that, and it was almost impossible to have text inserted onscreen, as it wasn't readable anymore. Plus it needs an input image that normal software can't produce in realtime: lenticular split 9-fold stereo crap. Even the Phillips' WOWx system, which only expects color and a Z-buffer side by side, can only work with bigger objects -- I really doubt that ramps and such can render good on these. Well NHK has Ultra HD in the works :-) 4x4 fullHD, maybe in 10-15 years :-)


All the best, and thanks for all your efforts!
Mario.

Edited by mayuh, 04 October 2012 - 03:58 PM.

[toxie]

Hi!

thanx for the input, i also suspected circular polarized filters to mostly work out of the box, but without testing i don't give guarantees, so better safe than sorry (also given the mentioned color shifts and other potential sideeffects from the TV)..
or do you mean that all LGs work with circular polarized light by now?

as for top-down: that's what i use for now, although i've read some weird theories/conspiracies that some TVs actually scale this up and then down again (and some even do scale the x-axis), but on my LGs it seems to work 1:1, at least there is no noticable blur IMHO..

as for the autostereoscopics: i completely agree, but at some point these will be common, i mean companies will still want to sell new stuff in the future, so to support these one will need to sell not only new TVs, but also new BluRay (or whatever it will be called then) players, accompanying new (transferred) releases of your favorite movies, and also new GFXboards to handle rendering games for multiple views at once.. as for the WOWx-system: it has the same probz as the current VP 3D stereo implementation: as it only works with one buffer and re-projection, it cannot handle transparent surfaces very well (which is not so much a problem for a pinball machine, but for real life images)..

as for the glasses: how much would that be? i'm very interested!!

[sleepy]

The current buzz is about 4K HDTV/Monitors = 4,000 horizontal pixels.
Panasonic recently showed off a 103 inch 4K plasma set which features glassless 3D.
Could this be the 3D set that James Cameron was talking about with regards to Avatar?:

http://www.tomshardw...y-3D,17349.html

And LG plans to ship an 84 inch 4K LCD set with passive circular 3D (glasses)...for $22,000 USD in Korea starting this month, with plans to ship the model worldwide next month. Don't know if the set ships with the model though...

http://www.engadget....-84-inch-uhdtv/

So expect a 4K player shortly. BTW, the upcoming "Hobbit" was shot in native 4K resolution and 4K is a major format in theatrical digital movies, so 4K home theater promises to deliver the same resolution as the theaters now offer.

And I expect the 4K format to offer smaller sizes but not tabletop sizes. Even so, that should mean a 4K 48 inch 3D monitor
as the 4K horizontal pixel count promises to deliver 3D resolution equal to current 1080 H. pixel 2D.

Edited by sleepy, 04 October 2012 - 06:58 PM.

[mayuh]

Well, the hobbit is shot on RED's new (mystery chips based) cameras, from what I've seen in the video diaries. At least it's real stereo and not some India/Rumania based 2d to 3d converted movie. James Cameron, who licensed the camera rig, does a fine job regarding x-eyed stereoscopy, which will ensure a nice 3d image even at greater than 18 meter distance. Without having disadvantages of gigantism or lilliputianism (eg. Looking into a Doll's house or onto a 1:50 scale mountain).

Anyway 4k player cards are available now from blackmagic design, but you need one hell of a RAID to get your videos put through to it :-) unfortunately it has nothing to do with real time (gfx card) rendering :-)

@toxie: the price of the glasses only depends on the volume needed. I can assure you, that all passive polarized LG 3DTVs (i have 4 different ones of them) work with regular circular polarized glasses in 0/90/180/270 configurations without the need to altering the glasses. The glasses are the same you get in your local cinema (realD) for €1,--
I just checked... Custom polarization is 3,50/piece for a 1000 pcs order :-( but I would guess I get a few (haha 'prototypes') if we need them for free...

Thanks again,
Mario.

[Slydog43]

would this tv work in a cab? (not sure it will work with "regular circular polarized glasses in 0/90/180/270 configurations"


LG 42LM6200 42-Inch Cinema 3D 1080p

[mayuh]

Yep, i have that one. Really a very very (did I say very?!) narrow frame around it. It works perfectly.

What I meant with the configurations is, that circular pol glasses (like the ones you get in real d cinemas) work on all passive polarized 3dtv from LG. no matter how you rotate your tv. In 90 degrees steps of course :-)

I can't stand shutter glasses. It makes me mad seeing the ambient light flickering at 50/60hz. Maybe I'm just getting old :-)

Well :-)
All the best,
Mario.

[toxie]

ah, now i get what you mean! actually i never thought that far.. (i also feel very stupid now )
awesome! first thing i'll try as soon as i get home, as i also have two of these!

[toxie]

hmmm.. unfortunately it doesn't work that well.. the circular polarized glasses show some slight ghosting and slight color shifts in the 'rotated' usage for my setup (not in 'standard' mode though)..

so if you could get some 'prototype' glasses for free, i would be very very thankful if you could count me in for 2 pairs..

[mayuh]

Really? Hmmm, I'll see what I can do. Pm me your address please.

What tv do you have with those glasses being all wrong?!

Wait. Sorry :-)

Say, you do know that that LGs only have a 15 degrees up/down viewing angle. In this case left/right? You don't happen do have looked on your playfield form this POV, do you? ;-)

Cheers,
Mario.

Edited by mayuh, 05 October 2012 - 11:44 PM.

[toxie]

As said, it's a LG LW 5400 in that case.. and it happens basically even when looking straight at it.. :-(
If i shift my head of course it gets worse.. i'll write you a pm..

[mayuh]

As said, it's a LG LW 5400 in that case.. and it happens basically even when looking straight at it.. :-(
If i shift my head of course it gets worse.. i'll write you a pm..

Ok, now we are talking. I think I figured out, what the problem could be. LG must have implemented the stronger second linear pol layer, which is somehow required anyhow, in the model. See: http://en.wikipedia....larized_glasses

That said, they (must have) changed the pre-polarization of the LCD accordingly. Reminds me of the mid 90's when the first LCD projectors came out and we weren't able to polarize them properly as the their pre polarization was just weird :-/

Anyway, nothing that can't be compensated with a little charme and a few bottles of good wine for my suppliers.

I'll get back to you on Monday.

All the best,
Mario.

[Spektre]

I guess I am confused how this would work at all.

Steroscopic 3D is accomplished by a 3D display which alternates images for the left and right eye, which are offset along the same axis as your eyes. It is this offset along the same axis as your eyes that allows for what is essentuially only 2 images, to be rendered as 3D by your brain.

Rotate the screen 180 degrees and you now the left and right eye images are not above and below each other. This is not the axis of your eyes and thus should not work. This has nothing to do with the polarization of the glasses (if any), it has to do with the psycho-optic effect that allows 2 stereoscopic images to be perceived as 3D.

[toxie]

Absolutely right.. That's why there is a separate setting 'Y-Axis' in the video preferences that tells the engine to calculate the 3D for this kinda setup.. The TV doesn't need to know about all of this, it simply displays the picture the engine provides..

[ringorian]

i am confused about all this polarisation etc talk. Is there a chance to get my samsung led working with these shutter glasses ? Since i dont use them (glasses) i also will experiment if nbeeded in modding them in any way.

[toxie]

So far there are no definite answers as even some shutter based glasses seem to abuse polarisation, so only experimenting yourself will bring the answer for a specific TV..
I can only say that the LG LW 650s and LG LW 5400 both work perfectly with rotating the LG glasses and somehow (slight ghosting) with (unrotated/standard) circular polarized cinema glasses..

[Nemesis]

they already invented this, its called pinball 2000, buy one

[toxie]

i have em already, both SWEP1 and RFM, so.. ..

[Aaron James]

Awwww SNAP! Oh no he didn't ....oh yes he did.