1972 replies to this topic

[Gravy]

Some minor typos Beta 2:

In adjust camera mode:

Viewport X Strech
Viewport X Strech

Correct English spelling is "stretch".

********************************

Properties/Table/User/Elements Detail Level/Use this slider instead of defaul

Correct spelling "default"


********************************

Properties/Table/User/Night->Day Cycle/Use this slider instead of defaul

Correct spelling "default"

[fripounet]

can you integrate more functionality from ravarcade, spotlight for example in volumetric as well as being able to rotate a whole collection of mini pf ?

and also  add point laterally on the ramps  and add the ies of the bulbs and leds and other..... virtual room (very efficient in vr)

 

https://renderman.pi...om/ies-profiles

Edited by fripounet, 27 May 2023 - 01:55 AM.

[vbousquet]

Just tried playing Tales from the Crypt - VPW v1.22 and getting a runtime error  End Sub

I did test and was not able to reproduce. As far as I understand, this seems to be a table script bug (not a VPX bug). I used the latest on VPU which is 1.22 perhaps there was a change in the table script ?

Typos are fixed for the next release

[hitman2304]

I just tried this new beta, problems with lighting in POV mode solved

Edited by hitman2304, 27 May 2023 - 06:39 AM.

[Gravy]

 

Just tried playing Tales from the Crypt - VPW v1.22 and getting a runtime error  End Sub

I did test and was not able to reproduce. As far as I understand, this seems to be a table script bug (not a VPX bug). I used the latest on VPU which is 1.22 perhaps there was a change in the table script ?

Typos are fixed for the next release

 

Have discovered that the error seems to occur due to the table having an associated .POV file. If I delete or rename the POV then table runs without the error.

Edit: Have also found the error also occurs in 10.7.4 but runs without error in 10.7.2  (haven't tried 10.7.3). I assume I originally exported POV from 10.7.2 in that case.

POV below:

 

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<POV>
	<desktop>
		<inclination>31.599970</inclination>
		<fov>45.000000</fov>
		<layback>0.000000</layback>
		<rotation>0.000000</rotation>
		<xscale>0.802003</xscale>
		<yscale>0.802003</yscale>
		<zscale>1.000000</zscale>
		<xoffset>0.000000</xoffset>
		<yoffset>50.000000</yoffset>
		<zoffset>-650.000000</zoffset>
	</desktop>
	<fullscreen>
		<inclination>5.600000</inclination>
		<fov>40.599983</fov>
		<layback>73.599869</layback>
		<rotation>270.000000</rotation>
		<xscale>1.143996</xscale>
		<yscale>1.463995</yscale>
		<zscale>1.000000</zscale>
		<xoffset>40.600082</xoffset>
		<yoffset>0.000000</yoffset>
		<zoffset>200.000000</zoffset>
	</fullscreen>
	<fullsinglescreen>
		<inclination>30.000000</inclination>
		<fov>40.000000</fov>
		<layback>40.000000</layback>
		<rotation>0.000000</rotation>
		<xscale>0.800000</xscale>
		<yscale>0.700000</yscale>
		<zscale>1.000000</zscale>
		<xoffset>0.000000</xoffset>
		<yoffset>275.000000</yoffset>
		<zoffset>-550.000000</zoffset>
	</fullsinglescreen>
	<customsettings>
		<SSAA>-1</SSAA>
		<postprocAA>-1</postprocAA>
		<ingameAO>-1</ingameAO>
		<ScSpReflect>-1</ScSpReflect>
		<FPSLimiter>1</FPSLimiter>
		<OverwriteDetailsLevel>0</OverwriteDetailsLevel>
		<DetailsLevel>5</DetailsLevel>
		<BallReflection>1</BallReflection>
		<BallTrail>0</BallTrail>
		<BallTrailStrength>0.298039</BallTrailStrength>
		<OverwriteNightDay>1</OverwriteNightDay>
		<NightDayLevel>39</NightDayLevel>
		<GameplayDifficulty>56.000000</GameplayDifficulty>
		<PhysicsSet>0</PhysicsSet>
		<IncludeFlipperPhysics>0</IncludeFlipperPhysics>
		<SoundVolume>100</SoundVolume>
		<MusicVolume>100</MusicVolume>
	</customsettings>
</POV>

Edited by Gravy, 27 May 2023 - 07:57 AM.

[wiesshund]

 

 

Just tried playing Tales from the Crypt - VPW v1.22 and getting a runtime error  End Sub

I did test and was not able to reproduce. As far as I understand, this seems to be a table script bug (not a VPX bug). I used the latest on VPU which is 1.22 perhaps there was a change in the table script ?

Typos are fixed for the next release

 

Have discovered that the error seems to occur due to the table having an associated .POV file. If I delete or rename the POV then table runs without the error.

Edit: Have also found the error also occurs in 10.7.4 but runs without error in 10.7.2  (haven't tried 10.7.3). I assume I originally exported POV from 10.7.2 in that case.

POV below:

 

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<POV>
	<desktop>
		<inclination>31.599970</inclination>
		<fov>45.000000</fov>
		<layback>0.000000</layback>
		<rotation>0.000000</rotation>
		<xscale>0.802003</xscale>
		<yscale>0.802003</yscale>
		<zscale>1.000000</zscale>
		<xoffset>0.000000</xoffset>
		<yoffset>50.000000</yoffset>
		<zoffset>-650.000000</zoffset>
	</desktop>
	<fullscreen>
		<inclination>5.600000</inclination>
		<fov>40.599983</fov>
		<layback>73.599869</layback>
		<rotation>270.000000</rotation>
		<xscale>1.143996</xscale>
		<yscale>1.463995</yscale>
		<zscale>1.000000</zscale>
		<xoffset>40.600082</xoffset>
		<yoffset>0.000000</yoffset>
		<zoffset>200.000000</zoffset>
	</fullscreen>
	<fullsinglescreen>
		<inclination>30.000000</inclination>
		<fov>40.000000</fov>
		<layback>40.000000</layback>
		<rotation>0.000000</rotation>
		<xscale>0.800000</xscale>
		<yscale>0.700000</yscale>
		<zscale>1.000000</zscale>
		<xoffset>0.000000</xoffset>
		<yoffset>275.000000</yoffset>
		<zoffset>-550.000000</zoffset>
	</fullsinglescreen>
	<customsettings>
		<SSAA>-1</SSAA>
		<postprocAA>-1</postprocAA>
		<ingameAO>-1</ingameAO>
		<ScSpReflect>-1</ScSpReflect>
		<FPSLimiter>1</FPSLimiter>
		<OverwriteDetailsLevel>0</OverwriteDetailsLevel>
		<DetailsLevel>5</DetailsLevel>
		<BallReflection>1</BallReflection>
		<BallTrail>0</BallTrail>
		<BallTrailStrength>0.298039</BallTrailStrength>
		<OverwriteNightDay>1</OverwriteNightDay>
		<NightDayLevel>39</NightDayLevel>
		<GameplayDifficulty>56.000000</GameplayDifficulty>
		<PhysicsSet>0</PhysicsSet>
		<IncludeFlipperPhysics>0</IncludeFlipperPhysics>
		<SoundVolume>100</SoundVolume>
		<MusicVolume>100</MusicVolume>
	</customsettings>
</POV>

 

Gravy if you are curious, you may be able to determine what part of the POV is giving the issue
make a backup copy

than take the POV, and empty the contents of a section, beginning with last section listed first
so the items between <customsettings> and </customsettings>

Save POV and try table

If it works then, and you were still curious, you could add, one by one, the settings back
and see which one it implodes on.

 

I know i had run across a few POV that were exported in some previous version that just didnt end well in later versions
usually i was able to save the actual POV info and punt out the rest, as i rarely set any actually custom settings per table anyways

No explanation though on what caused them to get garbled in the 1st place, i just know that later versions of VPX became sensitive to it.

 

 

[stoj]

10.8 beta 2 looks great.  I especially like the updated POV window projection for cabinets which (to me) seems a lot more intuitive than the legacy POV setup.

 

A couple of questions regarding OpenGL..

• Was the main motivation for adding OpenGL to support non-windows DirectX systems?
• For non-VR users, what are the benefits to run the GL version over the DirectX version?  To my eyes, they both appear to render very similar, consume similar CPU/GPU resources, with similar frame rates.
• Is there a way to support screen recording with ffmpeg when using OpenGL?  For example, when initiated via PinballY frontend, this no longer to work and just records a black screen when using the GL version, but works fine for the 10.8 beta 2 non-GL version.  I did do a quick bit of research on their website but came up empty.  If it helps, below is an example of the CLI that's used.. I'm assuming use of GDI is the issue but not sure how/if this can be worked around?
  

  ffmpeg.exe" -y -loglevel warning -thread_queue_size 32  -f gdigrab -framerate 30 -offset_x 6400 -offset_y 0 -video_size 4096x2160 -i desktop -c:a none -t 15 -probesize 30M -rtbufsize 2000M  -c:v libx264 -threads 8 -qp 0 -preset ultrafast "C:\vp\apps\PinballX\Media\Visual Pinball\Table Videos\The Addams Family (Bally 1992).tmp.mkv"

Edited by stoj, 28 May 2023 - 05:46 AM.

[vbousquet]

 

Was the main motivation for adding OpenGL to support non-windows DirectX systems?

 

No. Things happened without a plan. Everything started because I needed new features for my tables and read the great Whirlwind WIP by Flupper (and created a semi automated way of doing like he does). This leads me to add a few things to 10.7, diving in the code. DX9 is pretty outdated regarding a lot of features, so I decided to make my test with VPVR which uses latest OpenGL. Then Jason came in wanting to port to other platforms and little by little it drove us to what is the 10.8.

 

 

For non-VR users, what are the benefits to run the GL version over the DirectX version?  To my eyes, they both appear to render very similar, consume similar CPU/GPU resources, with similar frame rates.

 

VPVR used to be a fork entirely designed to run in VR (so desktop rendering had been dropped). I fixed that and, now, VPX/GL is supposed to have the exact same rendering as the DX9 version. You can use it for desktop. The OpenGL version uses latest OpenGL, giving some benefits over the DX9 version:

- MSAA => this is a cheap and effective antialiasing solution,

- real stereo rendering => the result is really better in my opinion (at the cost of the need of more GPU power), fixing most visual artefact, supporting transparency,...

- better color management (DX9 has a bug on how it computes mipmaps, but the difference is very slight),

- perhaps a slightly faster startup,

- VR support (obviously).

The main drawback is that you need a computer with OpenGL 4.3 support, so fairly new, when the DX9 version supports very old devices with very old Windows version. I think the DX9 version is also somewhat faster than the OpenGL one.

 

 

Is there a way to support screen recording with ffmpeg when using OpenGL?

 

Not with current version. This is a bug. Low priority on my list, but still this would be nice to solve it.

[wiesshund]

Presently i get the OGL build to function well
DX9 exe will run an arbitrary table at say 300 fps

OGL exe will sit there at 13.

 

Now that could perhaps be from putting the OGL executable in the dx9 vpx's folder i guess (same build action though)

Havent figured that out yet
I might give the OGL version it's own folder and see if that makes a difference.

 

Just running it in normal cab view fashion, i dont have VR

[stoj]

Thanks vbousquet for the detailed reply. Much appreciated.

 

I'll certainly be using the OpenGL version going forward.

 

I'll raise a bug in GitHub later today to track the ffmpeg recording issue. Not a big deal though as it's easy to work around by using the non GL version when recording video.

[Jasonh1981]

Awesome beta with a lot of wonderful improvements.

I have a question about the revamped supersampling option. Will it be possible to use different percentages on a per table basis for supersampling? For example, if I had 200% as the default option under preferences/graphic options would it be possible to use a lower percentage on a per table basis? I noticed the only options are "on" "off" and "default" like previous versions of VPX.

Edited by Jasonh1981, 28 May 2023 - 04:27 PM.

[hitman2304]

Is future implementation of DX11/12 or Vulkan is posible or is it too much work to handle?

[Drybonz]

Vulkan is posible

 

I was wondering about Vulkan too, but I was afraid to ask since GL is still in beta form... lol

[ktmspark]

been testing the beta 2 ( non glide) and it seems great on all tables so far except Batman 66 where lights are super bright , is this a simple setting tweak or just because we are in beta ?

 

Thanks for all work , brilliant!!!

[jpsalas]

Which Batman 66? Do you have a download link? I have one version, from this site, and it looks fine.

[Gravy]

 

 

 

Just tried playing Tales from the Crypt - VPW v1.22 and getting a runtime error  End Sub

I did test and was not able to reproduce. As far as I understand, this seems to be a table script bug (not a VPX bug). I used the latest on VPU which is 1.22 perhaps there was a change in the table script ?

Typos are fixed for the next release

 

Have discovered that the error seems to occur due to the table having an associated .POV file. If I delete or rename the POV then table runs without the error.

Edit: Have also found the error also occurs in 10.7.4 but runs without error in 10.7.2  (haven't tried 10.7.3). I assume I originally exported POV from 10.7.2 in that case.

POV below:

 

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<POV>
	<desktop>
		<inclination>31.599970</inclination>
		<fov>45.000000</fov>
		<layback>0.000000</layback>
		<rotation>0.000000</rotation>
		<xscale>0.802003</xscale>
		<yscale>0.802003</yscale>
		<zscale>1.000000</zscale>
		<xoffset>0.000000</xoffset>
		<yoffset>50.000000</yoffset>
		<zoffset>-650.000000</zoffset>
	</desktop>
	<fullscreen>
		<inclination>5.600000</inclination>
		<fov>40.599983</fov>
		<layback>73.599869</layback>
		<rotation>270.000000</rotation>
		<xscale>1.143996</xscale>
		<yscale>1.463995</yscale>
		<zscale>1.000000</zscale>
		<xoffset>40.600082</xoffset>
		<yoffset>0.000000</yoffset>
		<zoffset>200.000000</zoffset>
	</fullscreen>
	<fullsinglescreen>
		<inclination>30.000000</inclination>
		<fov>40.000000</fov>
		<layback>40.000000</layback>
		<rotation>0.000000</rotation>
		<xscale>0.800000</xscale>
		<yscale>0.700000</yscale>
		<zscale>1.000000</zscale>
		<xoffset>0.000000</xoffset>
		<yoffset>275.000000</yoffset>
		<zoffset>-550.000000</zoffset>
	</fullsinglescreen>
	<customsettings>
		<SSAA>-1</SSAA>
		<postprocAA>-1</postprocAA>
		<ingameAO>-1</ingameAO>
		<ScSpReflect>-1</ScSpReflect>
		<FPSLimiter>1</FPSLimiter>
		<OverwriteDetailsLevel>0</OverwriteDetailsLevel>
		<DetailsLevel>5</DetailsLevel>
		<BallReflection>1</BallReflection>
		<BallTrail>0</BallTrail>
		<BallTrailStrength>0.298039</BallTrailStrength>
		<OverwriteNightDay>1</OverwriteNightDay>
		<NightDayLevel>39</NightDayLevel>
		<GameplayDifficulty>56.000000</GameplayDifficulty>
		<PhysicsSet>0</PhysicsSet>
		<IncludeFlipperPhysics>0</IncludeFlipperPhysics>
		<SoundVolume>100</SoundVolume>
		<MusicVolume>100</MusicVolume>
	</customsettings>
</POV>

 

Gravy if you are curious, you may be able to determine what part of the POV is giving the issue
make a backup copy

than take the POV, and empty the contents of a section, beginning with last section listed first
so the items between <customsettings> and </customsettings>

Save POV and try table

If it works then, and you were still curious, you could add, one by one, the settings back
and see which one it implodes on.

 

I know i had run across a few POV that were exported in some previous version that just didnt end well in later versions
usually i was able to save the actual POV info and punt out the rest, as i rarely set any actually custom settings per table anyways

No explanation though on what caused them to get garbled in the 1st place, i just know that later versions of VPX became sensitive to it.

 

 

 

Ok...  I did some testing by commenting out sections of the POV and I'm fairly sure I have narrowed it down to the POV's zoffset settings for both fullscreen and fullsinglescreen

If I comment out those lines from the POV, Tales from the Crypt table appears to run without the error in desktop/fullscreen/fullsinglescreen modes. Oddly I didn't need to comment out the Desktop zoffset for Desktop mode to start working, the error in desktop mode seems to be related to the zoffset settings of fullscreen and fullsinglescreen for some reason.

I say "fairly sure" as I think the desktop mode error may have still occurred on one occasion even with those lines commented out, not sure if that was a mixup at my end with resaving the POV file after editing it in an editor though.

Would be helpful if someone else can cut and paste the POV code above into a POV file and test it with the table and see if they get the same error, then comment out the zoffset lines and see if it fixes things. I realise that this is just one table issue, but I'm wondering if it may relate to a wider problem with POV that may affect other tables.

Interestingly, part of the code that relates to the error line is marked with a 'hack  comment at line 1401.
 

 

RealCOR = BallSpeed(aBall) / (cor.ballvel(aBall.id) + 0.001) 'hack

Edited by Gravy, 29 May 2023 - 04:10 AM.

[SmedleyB]

Is the ball being rendered darker in 1189? Or maybe this is a side effect of the ball image reflection being flipped if that's still an issue? I am getting some black ghosting/trailing on some tables - Bord's latest Stingray is very noticeable. I can't pick it up in screenshots, so I guess it is my monitor. But I do see that the bottom of the ball in 10.8 is much blacker in shadows compared to earlier version...I don't see the ghosting/blur there. You can see the ball become much blacker as it falls from top of table where I guess there are more lights to bottom middle.

[Gravy]

Is the ball being rendered darker in 1189? Or maybe this is a side effect of the ball image reflection being flipped if that's still an issue? I am getting some black ghosting/trailing on some tables - Bord's latest Stingray is very noticeable. I can't pick it up in screenshots, so I guess it is my monitor. But I do see that the bottom of the ball in 10.8 is much blacker in shadows compared to earlier version...I don't see the ghosting/blur there. You can see the ball become much blacker as it falls from top of table where I guess there are more lights to bottom middle.

yeah there is something not quite right with the ball still but it may be because previously the ball reflection was actually physically incorrect in older VPX version and table designers have been compensating with a ball texture that tended to correct the issue to some degree (but that now looks a little strange). I think the orientation of the reflection is correct but the underside of the ball seems dark and we can see more of the darker side, which has no reflection of the table surface so looks odd (if the playfield was able to be reflected in the ball I think this would correct the issue).

Stingray does not seem to be using a defined ball texture but I think it is instead using environment_overhead_vpx.hdr (someone correct me if I'm wrong as I don't quite understand where this texture is defined as there is nothing listed in the properties/ball image ). Edit: Oh I see now, its under "Lights/Environment Emission Image"

I'm not sure if this is an inbuilt texture in VPX??

There is also a problem with that texture in Beta 2 as it doesn't quite wrap correctly and results in a noticeable thin black seam where the texture wraps at between the two poles of the ball (visible on 1080p with no AA at least, might be less noticeable on other screens).


 

Edited by Gravy, 29 May 2023 - 10:14 AM.

[wiesshund]

 

Is the ball being rendered darker in 1189? Or maybe this is a side effect of the ball image reflection being flipped if that's still an issue? I am getting some black ghosting/trailing on some tables - Bord's latest Stingray is very noticeable. I can't pick it up in screenshots, so I guess it is my monitor. But I do see that the bottom of the ball in 10.8 is much blacker in shadows compared to earlier version...I don't see the ghosting/blur there. You can see the ball become much blacker as it falls from top of table where I guess there are more lights to bottom middle.

yeah there is something not quite right with the ball still but it may be because previously the ball reflection was actually physically incorrect in older VPX version and table designers have been compensating with a ball texture that tended to correct the issue to some degree (but that now looks a little strange). I think the orientation of the reflection is correct but the underside of the ball seems dark and we can see more of the darker side, which has no reflection of the table surface so looks odd (if the playfield was able to be reflected in the ball I think this would correct the issue).

Stingray does not seem to be using a defined ball texture but I think it is instead using environment_overhead_vpx.hdr (someone correct me if I'm wrong as I don't quite understand where this texture is defined as there is nothing listed in the properties/ball image ).

I'm not sure if this is an inbuilt texture in VPX??

There is also a problem with that texture in Beta 2 as it doesn't quite wrap correctly and results in a noticeable thin black seam where the texture wraps at between the two poles of the ball (visible on 1080p with no AA at least, might be less noticeable on other screens).


 

 

 

Playfield is reflected in the ball, or can be anyways.

There is something different about ball textures though.

I noticed on a few tables that have fantasy ball textures, ball looks like a meteor or other things, by using custom texture plus decals, that the textures were sort of ruined in 10.8

[ktmspark]

Which Batman 66? Do you have a download link? I have one version, from this site, and it looks fine.

Hi , it is the batman 66 stern tribute by daphishbowl, the one with pup dmd etc , I have set popper to run with 10.7 vpx and all is good , just noticed thats the only table so far with issues, thanks for help JP