616 replies to this topic

[fuzzel]

Thanks JP. Will be fixed in the next version.

[toxie]

 

To modernize AA in VP you need to change the architecture to handle static and dynamic geometry separately. It sounds like a fair bit of work to do that, Is this something that's planned for VP 10x or will it be deferred to VP 11.x?

 

I second Fuzzel here. But we're not that far off actually, as you can see when you're using the camera mode to adjust things dynamically. A lot works as expected already, but is of course not that fast and not that feature complete as the "normal" rendering mode.

But then again "modern" AA is all about temporal AA anyway, or even SSAA (or even just postprocessed AA if one is displaying in 4K), and not so much MSAA anymore, so i don't know if we must bother about this complicated mess anyway nowadays.

 

 

@Toxie: Yes same material+texture rendered on both sides.

Oh well then...that is a problem in the current version of the engine. As Toxie said we had to render everthing twice and probably with a small offset so the polygons don't interfere each other. The only thing that is possible is to disable the backface culling if a primitive is transparent. We could reuse the draw texture inside check box for that. I don't think that anyone uses the old build-in primitive in VPX anymore and I would remove them if nobody complaines about it.

 

 

I was going to suggest to perhaps make it a 'check box' enabled option in the event that it could cause backwards compatibility issues or unnecessary performance issues on objects that don't need it.

 

 

Sounds feasible. I'll look into it.

 

 

One more clarification needed: This is only used in your case for transparent objects/materials right?

[kiwi]

Sorry I won't add this. Such special objects make the hole application only more complicated. If you need such behavior then you have to code it yourself in the script. Everything to do that is available.

Got it. Thanks.

[dark]

@Toxie Not necessarily,  also for rendering the inside of geometry with no thickness.

 

Here is a fur map I created which I use with flat rectangles that I then shape to match the contour of the head:

 

So the white areas are transparent yes but the fur areas are opaque, in 3ds max so it displays correctly I map this opacity map:

 

 

I recall first running into the issue of 2 sided materials in VP with the suitcase I made for "24" for Fren,  the inside of the case would not render correctly because I didn't have 'shelled' geometry, so I ended up having to model the interior so it would render correctly.  So it doesn't necessarily have to be a transparent texture map.

[cyberpez]

@Dark, Not sure if this really helps with what you are trying to do, but...  When I was doing the No Face Rudy mod for Funhouse I ran into the same thing, needed the primitive to be two sided.  In blender there is a modifier called "solidify"  That made the primitive two sided and I didn't need to do anything complicated.  I think what it did was just double and mirror the faces, but it worked for what I needed.  again, pry not what you're looking for.. just throwing it out there.

[dark]

Yes I can just add a 'shell' modifier in max to accomplish the same thing but then you're adding sides, top and bottom, it's not ideal for what I'm trying to do, but if there's nothing else I can do then I will.  I'm trying to utilise a method for low poly hair/fur that is very commonly used across many game engines.

Edited by dark, 06 April 2017 - 05:09 PM.

[toxie]

The additional checkbox to enable this will be available in the next beta build.. 

[dark]

The additional checkbox to enable this will be available in the next beta build.. 

Myself and Bigfoot's low poly fur wig would like to thank you!

[dark]

lol Fuzzel, you know that fuzzy bastard has been haunting us for years now, it will be good to finally do him justice.

[toxie]

i also just redid the new hacks that Hanzoverfist did to the flasher image display in the editor (that did not do what he intended though, i think ), so please let me know when the next build arrives if the alpha blended images in the editor work correctly for you (you should now have proper blending/transparency instead of the checkerboard pattern like it was in 10.2).

Edited by toxie, 06 April 2017 - 07:12 PM.

[hanzoverfist]

 

The additional checkbox to enable this will be available in the next beta build.. 

Myself and Bigfoot's low poly fur wig would like to thank you!

 

 

yeah toxie this is important because he is working on you know what table!!!! excited I am!   

i also just redid the new hacks that Hanzoverfist did to the flasher image display in the editor (that did not do what he intended though, i think ), so please let me know when the next build arrives if the alpha blended images in the editor work correctly for you (you should now have proper blending/transparency instead of the checkerboard pattern like it was in 10.2).

 

 

hacks......Whaaaaaat!!!   EDIT: oh yeah I forgot... AWESOME!!!!!

Edited by hanzoverfist, 06 April 2017 - 07:18 PM.

[toxie]

i also just finally added your fly-around patch for the camera mode..

thanks again!

[hanzoverfist]

Found a crash bug that I can always repeat:

 

open two tables in one editor, copy 2 or three flashers together from table 1 (dunno if textures must be assigned but mine are) and paste them in table 2 (it may not have all those texture in texture manager mine don't) , then copy some text from table 1 script to the the script editor in table 2, after the paste select table 1 again, VP will halt .

 

EDIT: actually the steps are more complicated.. would you prefer I PM you toxie?

Edited by hanzoverfist, 06 April 2017 - 11:58 PM.

[toxie]

you can just post it here, so fuzzel can try to repro, too..

[fuzzel]

rev3023 is up:

 

- final patch from Hanzoverfist, navigating around the table with the arrow keys (and left alt key) is now possible in the Camera and Light tweaking mode
- remove hanzoverfists editor hacks again and replace with proper alpha blending
- add (optional) switch to disable backface culling for primitives with a transparent material
- fix renaming issue in material manager fix select button in the search and select dialog and use proper resizing
 

 

Just a note about the camera mode:

if you start in camera mode (F6) you can use the arrow keys to move the camera around. If you want to move the camera up/down press the ALT key + arrow key up/down

Edited by fuzzel, 07 April 2017 - 10:42 AM.

[unclewilly]

Sweet new beta phase

[toxie]

- add (optional) switch to disable backface culling for primitives with a transparent material

 

quick note on that one: its not just useful for rendering bigfoot but can also increase realism (a bit) for all transparent objects like posts, etc. in general.

but it comes at a price (roughly double the time to render one object).

[hanzoverfist]

What a luxury! OMG... the tables are sooooo much cleaner thx toxie....

 

 taxi trans snapshot-1.png   518.04KB   37 downloads  theatre of magic trans snap.png   973.99KB   39 downloads  big guns trans snap.png   455.91KB   31 downloads

[toxie]

the previously done polygon clipping is still missing though, so if one has flashers that are not perfectly rectangular it will be wrong (working on this but far from trivial with win32 gdi)..

[hanzoverfist]

the previously done polygon clipping is still missing though, so if one has flashers that are not perfectly rectangular it will be wrong (working on this but far from trivial with win32 gdi)..

 

Yeah your not kidding.. pain in the gluts..