975 replies to this topic

[Drybonz]

Ok, thanks... I understand that you are under no obligation at all to help me out, so I really appreciate you taking the time.

 

Yes, the arcade controller has a Turbo Twist spinner from GGG in it, so that would probably be it.

 

Going to try the steps you list above, now.

[Drybonz]

Ok, so I have transferred the files onto the bootloader manually in VirtualBox.  The files disappear when I plug the controller back in, and finally when I plug it back in without holding in the reset button it is not recognized.

 

Does this indicate that it's not going to work through VirtualBox, or have I missed something maybe?

[mjr]

It's normal that the files disappear when you plug it back in.  The boot loader *pretends* to be a disk drive to Windows, but it's not really.  When you copy a file there, it doesn't really store it as a file, but rather uses it to program the on-board flash.  The appearance that the file is there at all just comes from the Windows caching, so as soon as you unplug the cable, that gets forgotten.  

 

After you run through the procedure in the VM, what's the title (the volume label) on the thumb drive in Windows when you plug the programming port back in?  If the procedure worked, it should be FRDM-KL25Z.  If it's some other title, the update didn't take.

[Drybonz]

It does not show at all when I plug it back in, and if I run the SDA.INFO.HTM it shows that the bootloader version is 1.09.

[mjr]

It does not show at all when I plug it back in, and if I run the SDA.INFO.HTM it shows that the bootloader version is 1.09.

 

The update process didn't work, then, unfortunately.  The bootloader version should be at least 1.14 after you do the update.

 

I wish they'd fix the version they're installing at the factory so this would stop being an issue!  The fixed version has been around since 2013 so it's really annoying that they're still selling boards with that old version pre-installed.

 

The thing I expect is going wrong is that your real Windows system is grabbing hold of the drive when you first plug it in, so even though you're doing the update on the XP VM, the poisonous write that Win 8/10 does when you first connect the drive is still happening before the XP box gets a chance to take over the drive.  

 

In your VirtualBox setup, when you go to the USB devices menu, did you check-mark the SDA drive so that it's taken over by the XP box?

[Drybonz]

That's exactly right... you have to manually open the USB device in VirtualBox and before you do this it opens in the normal Win 8.1.

 

Let me see if I can find a way to have VirtualBox open it automatically.  I don't think I saw a way to do that... you have to open the USB devices... it shows the ones in Win 8.1, then you manually click one to bring it over to VirtualBox.

 

*edit*  This USB Device Filter might work... testing now.

 

*edit*  Well, the USB Device Filter did make it show up in VirtualBox first, but the bootloader is still at 1.09.

Edited by Drybonz, 12 June 2016 - 03:02 AM.

[mjr]

Try this:

 

Shut down XP, let it completely close.  In the VirtualBox VM manager, right-click on the XP VM in the list and select Settings.  Go to the USB page.  Make sure Enable USB Controller is checked.  Now click the little "+" next to the "USB Device Filters" list.  Hopefully the KL25Z drive is in the list (make sure the KL25Z is plugged into the programming port of course).  It should have a name like "PE Microsystems Inc..."  If you can find the drive there, click it so that it's added to the device filter list.  

 

Click OK.  *Unplug the KL25Z*.  Launch the VM.  Once XP is fully up and running again, try plugging the KL25Z back in.

 

What I'm hoping is that the device filter will make VirtualBox seize control of the device during the initial USB connection, before the disk drive connection protocol even starts.  If that works then Win 8.1 should never see it.

Edited by mjr, 12 June 2016 - 03:05 AM.

[Drybonz]

Got it!  Had to re-do both files with the USB Device Filter set, if that makes any sense. It's now showing in Win 8.1 as FRDM-KL25Z.  

Edited by Drybonz, 12 June 2016 - 03:08 AM.

[Drybonz]

Ok, I have gone through the settings config, and I think I'm all set.  It is now showing as "Pinscape Controller" in Devices and Printers.

 

Thanks again for your help and hanging in there with me for so long.  I appreciate it.

 

So, now I guess I just put this back in my arcade controller box and plug everything back in... I'm hoping the joysticks in the controller won't mess with the Pinscape.  Then VPX will detect it automatically?

 

*edit*  It seems like I'm getting some unwanted mouse clicks and behavior once I plug it back in.

Edited by Drybonz, 12 June 2016 - 03:32 AM.

[mjr]

Got it!  Had to re-do both files with the USB Device Filter set, if that makes any sense. It's now showing in Win 8.1 as FRDM-KL25Z.  

 

Hooray!

 

I'll have to make a note of this horrible procedure as a last resort for other people in the same boat.

 

 

So, now I guess I just put this back in my arcade controller box and plug everything back in... I'm hoping the joysticks in the controller won't mess with the Pinscape.  Then VPX will detect it automatically?

 

VPX just uses the DirectInput joystick interface, so it should see it as long as it's showing up as a USB joystick.  You will have to tell VP to enable analog nudge on the X and Y axis, and adjust the gain factor to your liking.  I think for VPX the gain factors should be about 10 on each axis - if that doesn't work try 100.  For VP9, the gain factor is usually best around 1000. 

 

To see if VP sees it, just create a blank table, run the table, and tilt the KL25Z.  You should be able to get the ball rolling by tilting the board.

 

Hopefully there won't be a conflict with the other joystick.  I have heard from one person who was having problems with a two-joystick setup, and I haven't gotten to the bottom of that.  If you can't get any effect in VP, let me know and I'll try to help troubleshoot it.

 

 

*edit*  It seems like I'm getting some unwanted mouse clicks and behavior once I plug it back in.

 

I'm not sure where that would be coming from - the Pinscape unit is only on the joystick interface, so it shouldn't have any effect on the mouse at all.

[Drybonz]

If I give it a good nudge, the screen loses focus (as it will with a mouse click if you are running PBX).  I also noticed if I am in Windows a shake will cause mouse clicks (things being highlighted, dragged etc).

 

*edit*  I have been testing a bit... I can replicate a mouse click every time in Windows by tapping (nudging) the controller.

Edited by Drybonz, 12 June 2016 - 04:13 AM.

[mjr]

If I give it a good nudge, the screen loses focus (as it will with a mouse click if you are running PBX).  I also noticed if I am in Windows a shake will cause mouse clicks (things being highlighted, dragged etc).

 

*edit*  I have been testing a bit... I can replicate a mouse click every time in Windows by tapping (nudging) the controller.

 

That's very strange - this is a new one for me.  That *must* be coming from some other software you have installed.  Do you have anything like xpadder or any other joystick-aware software on your system?  Something must be intercepting X/Y axis input and translating it to mouse clicks.

 

Like I said, the Pinscape software doesn't even have an option to present a mouse interface.  There's really no way it can send mouse clicks to the PC itself.

[Drybonz]

I have been trying to think of something that might be causing it... the only thing I can come up with is that it must be some other device in the arcade controller.  I have software for my Corsair keyboard, but it doesn't do anything with mouse clicks, as far as I know.  I don't use xpadder.  Still investigating.

[gtxjoe]

If you unplug the kl25z and shake the arcade controller does it still happen

[Drybonz]

If you unplug the kl25z and shake the arcade controller does it still happen

 

I'll check... have to open up the controller for that.  The controller is an X-Arcade that I have modded a good bit.  I removed the original "mouse" buttons from it (because they were never used) and I'm wondering if that might have something to do with it.  If so, I could I could put the micro-switches back on inside the box, so it would always read closed position.  Now, I'm also thinking I have a device plugged into my PC that controls Nintendo Wii controllers (Mayflash Dolphinbar).  If that is messing with the KL25, it's an easy fix because I can just unplug it.  It's not used much.

[BigBoss]

What plunger solutions are you guys using? Are there any easy to build potentiometer based?

[mjr]

 

If you unplug the kl25z and shake the arcade controller does it still happen

 

I'll check... have to open up the controller for that.  The controller is an X-Arcade that I have modded a good bit.  I removed the original "mouse" buttons from it (because they were never used) and I'm wondering if that might have something to do with it.  If so, I could I could put the micro-switches back on inside the box, so it would always read closed position.  Now, I'm also thinking I have a device plugged into my PC that controls Nintendo Wii controllers (Mayflash Dolphinbar).  If that is messing with the KL25, it's an easy fix because I can just unplug it.  It's not used much.

 

I'd suspect software on the PC ahead of other device interactions, just because USB devices don't really have any way of interacting with each other.  USB is essentially a network protocol, and the devices talk directly to Windows.  This makes it really unlikely that a mouse click would be some kind of electrical interference.  For a device to generate a mouse click, it has to go through this whole protocol of registering itself as a mouse and then sending a data packet that's formatted in a very specific way to represent the mouse action.

 

You might try rebooting in safe mode to turn off as much software as possible, and see if the problem goes away.  It *could* be a device driver, but I think it's more likely that you have some kind of application background task that's doing this.  The only way I can think of that you'd get a mouse click out of a nudge is that there's some Windows software running that's monitoring joystick input and echoing it back as mouse events.

 

Unplugging other devices and rebooting might also help identify it, since whatever's doing it might be something tied to one of the other devices.  Maybe there's some app that gets auto-launched when you plug in one of the devices.

What plunger solutions are you guys using? Are there any easy to build potentiometer based?

 

The Pinscape software happily supports potentiometers.  There are some inexpensive slide potentiometers in the 80-100mm length range that work well for this.  The manual has instructions.  I like the optical sensor myself since they're non-contact, but they are more expensive and harder to work with.

[Drybonz]

So, I removed the devices, one by one, in the devices and printers control panel in Windows... when I got to removing the trackball that is also in my arcade controller, the unwanted mouse clicks stop.  I tested it by adding and removing the device again, and I can replicate it each time.  So I have narrowed it down to the trackball interfering somehow.

 

So, I have been able to figure out what is causing it, but I'm not really sure how to get those two to co-exist peacefully.

[mjr]

So, I removed the devices, one by one, in the devices and printers control panel in Windows... when I got to removing the trackball that is also in my arcade controller, the unwanted mouse clicks stop.  I tested it by adding and removing the device again, and I can replicate it each time.  So I have narrowed it down to the trackball interfering somehow.

 

So, I have been able to figure out what is causing it, but I'm not really sure how to get those two to co-exist peacefully.

 

I'm only speculating here, but some possibilities to look at:

 

1.  Does the trackball have any associated software that runs when it's connected?  Mouse manufacturers often package some extra software with a mouse; e.g., Microsoft has IntelliPoint, and there's some Logitech equivalent.  It's usually packaged as an optional app you can install, not a device driver (since a mouse generally uses the built-in HID driver in Windows).  Maybe there's something like that you installed a long time ago and is still lurking in the system.  If so it might be visible as a Control Panel icon, or as added pages on the regular Mouse control panel, or just as a whole separate app.

 

2.  Does the trackball have any mouse buttons?  Maybe it's something really simple going on with a loose switch contact that you're activating every time you bump the box, or even a loose wire.  Although that wouldn't readily explain why it only happens when the KL25Z is plugged in.

[gtxjoe]

So you have confirmed that klz25 and trackball connected to USB you get mouse clicks. When you unplug klz25 but leave trackball connected, do the mouse clicks go away or still happen? Make sure you tape up any unused trackball wires...