228 replies to this topic

[htamas]

I think an excellent example for collision sounds is Eala's Nitro Ground Shaker. It is way better than any other table I can remember. Perhaps the sounds and the methods he is using could be beneficial.

It would be indeed great to have standard collision sounds that the table author (or even the user) can change as necessary.

[unclewilly]

The rubber code was added. But monster bash is a bad table to judge by. The music in that table is very loud. If you turn the music volume down you will more clearly hear the ball rolling and the rubber hits.

I didn't add wood or metal hits to that tabke.

In all honesty I have one pin in the basement, and about a dozen in the area that I play regularly. Aside from the mechanical sounds I don't hear a lot of wood metal and plastic hit sounds in these machines. Occasional glass hit sounds from strong shots to stand up targets.

The most noticeable sounds I really notice is the ball rolling.

No offense taken. I'm all about trying to make the simulation as real as possible

[Pinball999]

I guess my approach is a bit different to the majority of users here.

I generally lower the music volume cause the cab is in the living room, but raise the mech sound output to trigger the tactile transducers (while the speaker for mech sounds can be adjusted separately)

 

My goal with the mech sounds is more to physically feel the collisions, rather than hearing them more.

This would translate into receiving more vibrations when the ball is on a rail, more bumps when the ball is hitting a rubber, etc..

 

In this regards, having the slider I've mentioned earlier would allow to give a more realistic force feedback.

[BigBoss]

Even on a real pinball you hardly hear or feel any of those things. You definitely do not tactically feel the ball hitting metal guides etc. And on modern games the ball rolling sound is not noticeable unless the sound volume is so low it's almost off.

[ringorian]

Even on a real pinball you hardly hear or feel any of those things. You definitely do not tactically feel the ball hitting metal guides etc. And on modern games the ball rolling sound is not noticeable unless the sound volume is so low it's almost off.

shure, but it gives you some immersion if you have two speakers which shake under your hands when a post is hit, its not the sound its the little bass .. for me

[gtxjoe]

I will throw in my two cents - 

Right now it is not too much effort to assign a particular sound to a wall or ramp as UW mentioned.  Including a nice collection of sounds as part of the default table is a great idea.

 

I do like the idea of assigning sounds to specific pinball parts, but right now these specific parts don't really exist in VP. i.e. We can't select and place a post, or a rubber, or metal rail, metal pin, metal rollover switch, or light insert etc.  We build generically with walls and ramps to create these things that look and act like pinball parts..  We manually assign physics properties and manually assign sounds to these things to make them behave and sound like a pinball part.  There is nothing wrong with this either and there will always be a need to build something unique.

 

Ultimately I would like to be able to pick and place any standard pinball part and use it.  VP has many already, lets start to add to it.  Like rubbers, posts, rollovers, drop targets, standup targets, etc.  It would have default physics, sounds and animation.  You might say there are too many different styles of posts to make them standard, but they already exist.  When ever I copy and re-use a plastic post consisting of 128 ramps, I wonder who created this damn thing and thank god I didn't have to .  

 

Hopefully adding more standard pinball parts is on the roadmap, add default physics and default sounds would be great addition to that.  Maybe starting with the ability to copy an existing object like a post made out of 128 ramps and have the ability to convert into a single object and save it to a standalone file along with any images or sounds it uses.  This file could be imported into your VP object library where you could pick and place it

Edited by gtxjoe, 17 April 2014 - 10:08 PM.

[Pinball999]

Even on a real pinball you hardly hear or feel any of those things. .

Then we did not play on the same machines. Its because we can feel what's going on on the playfield that I love pinball so much. Being able to reproduce it just brings us closer to the real thing.

[sliderpoint]

Even on a real pinball you hardly hear or feel any of those things. You definitely do not tactically feel the ball hitting metal guides etc. And on modern games the ball rolling sound is not noticeable unless the sound volume is so low it's almost off.

 

I managed to get the audio split in my cabinet with VP sounds coming from speakers in the cabinet and ROM sounds coming from bg speakers.  It definitely adds a whole new layer to the experience.  I would certainly like to hear more table sounds.  This video is a good example of being able to hear all of those sounds while playing. youtube link.  It's what I think would be a great goal for VP.

 

-Mike

[kiwi]

To facilitate the placement of objects in the editor, it would be nice to have the chance to see the skeleton of the objects in addition to the solid.

 

Max

[Sunskift]

This is probanly already covered but just in case...
An improved standardized plunger interface with increased resolution would be great.

[sanovine]

Measurements in milimeters, not arbitrary units..

[mukuste]

Measurements in milimeters, not arbitrary units..

 

I've been very tempted to do this, especially with all the physics stuff which is much more natural if you have real units, but it would basically mean that all tables have to be completely recreated. In the end I decided to just bless the de-facto standard of 1000 VP units = 21.25" or 539.75 mm as the true VP unit of measurement, for better or worse. Would having mm make things much easier for table authors, or is it only a minor convenience?

[unclewilly]

Doesn't matter to me either way. I've built tables in fp which uses mm. And it's easy to adjust

[jimlee2469]

Can you make it workable with BAM?

[mukuste]

Can you make it workable with BAM?

 

BAM is completely specific to FP. What features specifically do you want?

[The Loafer]

BAM was used to get a better portrait view since the default arcade render view was lacking; so depending on how you approach the camera angles, BAM probably won't be required for this. However BAM is also know for its awesome head/IR tracking capabilities which would be awesome to use in a VP environment once you have a 3D engine in place.

IMHO, there seriously needs to be discussions between the BAM developer (Ravarcade) and you VP devs when it comes time to figure out how you will approach the VP 10 renderer. A lot of the leg work has been done by Rav, done in a fantastic way without even the ability to use the source code (had to be done I guess as a wrapper?). The wheel has already been invented on many of the ideas you guys will need to figure out. Just a humble opinion here, but what Rav has done considering the limitations he's been confined to has been nothing short of miraculous.





Loaf

Edited by The Loafer, 20 April 2014 - 03:53 PM.

[webslinger2203]

I agree BAM capability or something similar would be amazing.

[jimlee2469]

 

Can you make it workable with BAM?

 

BAM is completely specific to FP. What features specifically do you want?

 

I just like the way it make it 3d without having to have a 3d tv.

I'm new to BAM, just found out about it the other night but it makes the pins look almost real. I just think it would look amazing with the great VP tables that all the talented developers created.  

[ravarcade]

Here my 2 cents about "BAM" in VP 10.

DON'T THINK: IT IS COMPLICATED. IT IS REALY SIMPLE TO INTEGRATE !!!

 

Here are 4 needed steps:

1. All objects on screen must be 3D. (I think it is already decided)

2. Asymetric frustum. It is just different projection matrix.

3. Transformation between camera/player postion in real world and params for asymetric frustum matrix. (You just need to decited how to describe "real world" cam position).

4. Define way to read real world cam postion from external head tracking program (lets call it "tracker"). I propose shared memory. FreeTrack use it. This way You don't have to worry about all "head tracking" math, cam image processing, device communication. BAM can be turned in "tracker" in one week. 

[mukuste]

Thanks Rav! Steps 1-3 are as I imagined, but I didn't know there's such an easy way to do step 4! So BAM uses FreeTrack for head tracking?