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Monster Bash FS PcKiller dition [VP 9.x Cabinet FS]


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#81 Nemo

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 10:15 AM

First off: thank you all who made this eye-popping table possible, as a MB fan i am truly impressed with this high-end table !

 

Second:

On my cab it runs smooth with a constant 60 fps, NO stutter.

 

i3 3240 with 8Gb

GT660 OC 2Gb (even crancked it up a bit more)

Latest 332 nvidia driver

Vsync in VP set to 1 (auto)

Driver override FSAA settings to 8x 

 

As i have stated in earlier posts: it also is wise to set your panel to something like gamemode, make sure ALL postprocessing

gadgets on your monitor/TV are OFF.

 

Now, i am still sick (flu) but i am sure gonna play some MB later on, it is THAT GOOD !

 

A thousand thanks all !


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#82 kenrunio

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 10:44 AM

As 'smooth as silk' and running flawlessly! Great table!

 

Specs: Intel i5-3570K @3.4Ghz; GPU: Nvidia GTX 660TI; OS: Windows XP SP3. I'm getting an average FPS in the low to mid 200's.

 

I should add this is with an older nVidia driver. I'm upgrading now and will report if there is any improvement (and I hope still being on Win XP won't give me grief).


Edited by kenrunio, 31 January 2014 - 10:55 AM.


#83 zany

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 12:24 PM

When having the adaptive vsync set to 1, and fading lights dissabled, the low poly version is almost playable for me...still ball stutter when lot of lights going on on the playfield. I'll try the same settings on the pckiller version tonight.


Edited by zany, 31 January 2014 - 12:27 PM.


#84 DJRobX

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 03:55 PM

Nemo, what OS?  You have the same processor I do, but mine is unplayable.   Curious if XP would fix it, or if it's something else.   You say you have 8gb so I have to assume you're running win7 x64?    Only other difference is that I have a 560ti with 1gb as opposed to your 660 with 2gb.  


Edited by DJRobX, 31 January 2014 - 03:58 PM.


#85 randr

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 04:10 PM

Video card makes the difference I think. A 660 with 2gb is what I have and plays fine. 1gb just is not enough in my opinion


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#86 teppotee

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 04:28 PM

Definitely WIn7 issue! (at least for me)

 

I tried the latest drivers in my cab and the best I can get is around 45 FPS with pretty bad stuttering on my i5, GTX580 with win7 64bit.

 

I started to look at task manager and MSI afterburner for CPU and GPU usage. CPU was around 20-25% and GPU only around 5-15%. So I thought that the stuttering is not caused by hardware limitations.

 

I then fired my old harddrive with XP.... and super smooth! No stutter whatsoever.

 

So unfortunately this doesn't solve the problem as I don't want to go back to XP but it should put the investigation on right track.


Edited by teppotee, 31 January 2014 - 04:50 PM.


#87 naboodiver

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 04:42 PM

This is very perplexing.    I have the same configuration as some of you.    Windows 7 64bit OS, Nvidia GTX660 (main screen and backglass) and a 550ti for DMD, both 2G and lastest driver, 8 MB Ram, and a 3.4Ghz Intel 5i processor.     I have tried all of the many suggestions here (what a great community) but I still get stutter.    Not a lot but very noticable and enough to cause issues around shot timing.   I can't believe it is that I don't have enough processing power but never say never.   I hope somewhere in sharing all of this information that a light will go on for someone who can help tame the stutter on this great table enhancement.   It will hard to go back to farm (version 1.1) after seeing Paris (2.0). 



#88 Pinhead22

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 05:03 PM

Can someone with "smooth play" please post their VP video settings? I am trying this out with my gaming setup - Core i5 3750K @ 4.4ghz and an GTX 780 and i am getting stutter. FPS is staying around 60 but noticeable stutter. I know it must be something in my setup as I have never had any issues with any other table. Win7 and latest nVidia drivers and newest VP build. Maybe i should try another VP build?



#89 Les73gTx

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 05:04 PM

Video card makes the difference I think. A 660 with 2gb is what I have and plays fine. 1gb just is not enough in my opinion


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.
.
3 monitor cabinet 46/32/15.5
Also using a AMD A10-6800K set clock to run constant 4.4ghz
Win7 64bit fresh install
8gig memory
nVidia 660 2gig 256bit powering the BG and PF latest drivers.
DMD monitor run from the AMD A10
128gig SSD
750 watt PS for computer and 500 watt PC-PS for LedWiz toys and DMD monitor.

I have been testing different things as they get posted here but my system runs the PC killer version no problem. I have 35fps using F11 counter with a 32fps average. NO STUTTERING of the ball at all.

I have FXAA set in nVidia control panel at 16x if I lower that to 8x I get 45fps.

All my settings in VP preferences are set to max on ..RO RU Vsinc and slider all the way right FXAA on ball reflection shadow trails and decals all on.

I can increase my fps by turning some of the options off but from playing FPS (shooters) for many many years .. our eyes really can't see a difference in fps after 30 to 32.

Ok all that said ... I had something funny and strange happen last night while testing. I was getting some random slowdowns and stuttering in game but it was not the game as I would exit and still have them with my mouse also. Checked my clock settings on my CPU and I see that it is being throttled down. Here was the cause... I bought a new space heater for the basement and I had it plugged into the same circuit as the pinball cabinet. I could hear the fan in the heater (Eden Pure) varying its pitch when the game was using heavy loads with all the toys running.
Moved the heater to a different circuit and the problem is gone.... so I am ordering a digital meter that plugs into the wall outlet and the you plug in the appliance and it gives you a readout of volts and amps. We shall see but I am sure a new circuit will be installed for the PinCab only very soon.

Just something else to think about.

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#90 unclewilly

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 05:11 PM

The table was built completely in vp9.2

Did some experimenting yesterday.

I removed all alpha flashers and gi.

I've come to the conclusion it must have something to do with how the graphics drivers process the dx7 model rendering that is causing the bottleneck

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#91 Les73gTx

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 05:29 PM

The table was built completely in vp9.2

Did some experimenting yesterday.

I removed all alpha flashers and gi.

I've come to the conclusion it must have something to do with how the graphics drivers process the dx7 model rendering that is causing the bottleneck

.
.
Said it before ... we are at the limits of DX7 ...
I forgot to say that I am using the latest nightly build of VP also ... the Dev team really needs a big thank you and pat on the back as they have come up with some amazing ways to squeeze out more performance with it seems like every release

Thank you

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#92 teppotee

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 05:58 PM

Some interesting results between XP and Win 7. In the attached chart you can see the GPU usage for both OS versions.

 

For XP the usage is very high and everything runs super smooth. For Win 7 the usage mostly remains around 15% and ball stutters badly. So it really looks like Win7 drivers are not capable of handling the old DX7 features very well. 

 

Or is someone running this table without any stutter on Win7 and Nvidia card? If so, then which driver version are you using?

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#93 zany

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 06:25 PM

It doesn't take advantage of the hardware when running win7!!!



#94 jimmyfingers

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 06:25 PM

The GPU is being limited by the FPS sent to it. I've noticed this within the last few months using GPUTweak by Asus when I got even deeper into analyzing my system after upgrading some hardware. So with the XP version allowing so many more FPS in game, the GPU is being utilized more and is yielding those skewed results. If you could find a way to choke the VP FPS back down to what Windows 7 was getting, you'd see similar results in the GPU between the two (you just can't choke it down with things like nVidia forced AA as that will roughly double your GPU utilization on it's own and outside of what it really needs to process the requests from VP).

 

I actually started using this aspect / finding to get smoother play overall when using forced AA by actually decreasing my FPS for some tables so that the GPU card was not getting pinned or staying up close to 90-100 % (used the alpha slider mainly but some games I actually copied a dozen or so primitives just to bring it down to ideally tune the FPS to be in the range that didn't push the GPU above the 80% range while still keeping it as high as possible).

 

Summary of all this is that GPU is totally tied to the FPS VP is throwing at it and with just the GPU usage stats, can not be used as an indication that it is the problem.

 

A couple things about peoples reports, pretty much everyone with v-sync enabled is going to get smoother play and I think that's skewing the reports / perception of reports especially when people are leaving out that detail. However, v-sync may still not work as it's supposed to sync with the monitor refresh rate and it's not likely going to work as it should when the game on it's own can not perform above 60 FPS and the monitor is going to be 60 (Hz) - or even higher. I think you'll need the low poly version / a system where you actually get above 60 FPS (albeit possibly choppy) before v-sync will smooth it out for you, otherwise you're trying to sync to a level that is already not attainable.

 

And v-sync will throw off flipper shots on any table that has flippers with speeds around .7 or higher (including this one) – thanks Teppo for corroborating and re-iterating this in one of your earlier posts. However, that was mainly because it brought down the FPS so much (60) and the same issue could be witnessed on tables without v-sync if they were slow enough (I first saw it a couple years ago on JP's first White Water release with all the alpha ramps - I'm sure some of you also saw it too, with occasional crazy shots to the side that weren't at all where you were expecting it to go?). So the v-sync just brings the FPS down as part of it’s function / nature and it appears any table playing less than about 200 can cause the erratic flippers. BUT and a big BUT here, it should follow that with this table being already low in the FPS, that the v-sync / low FPS flipper oddities will be present in either case and therefore won't be any worse for that reason to throw on v-sync and smooth it out a bit. Still, somewhat perplexingly, with that following the logic I still seem to get a few more erratic shots with v-sync on this table even then without (but still do without it on) and need more testing to confirm some things with more certainty (will likely build a test table to confirm / demonstrate all of these v-sync / low FPS / flipper erratic (wide) shots issues).

 

Lastly, outside of the Windows XP / 7 thing, does it seem like more people with AMD are working more fluidly or is just that those are turning out to have the v-sync "fix"?  

 

And Scott, none of this is a comment about your table at all and just the nuances that are being introduced with it being more demanding due to it being really, really, ridiculously good looking ;)



#95 zany

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 06:43 PM

This was even more odd.....when i run the resourcemonitor in the front of the backglass...the ball doesn't stutter at all. :)
 

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#96 teppotee

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 06:45 PM

Thanks jimmy for the detailed comments. FPS that are sent to GPU might be one factor but for example with MB: In XP I got mostly around 65 FPS and only sometimes it jumped to over 200 for few secs. All the time GPU utilization remained about the same. In Win7 I get around 45 FPS and almost no GPU utilization and really bad performance. So I just think that in this case the FPS difference is not so big (45 vs 65) that it would explain the huge GPU utilization differences. Although this is the first time I have started to look deeper into these things so I have just reported what I see without fully understanding the possible underlying reasons for the behaviour. 

 

Zany: I actually had task manager also on the backglass without any difference to stuttering. Crazy many variables in this whole performance equation :)


Edited by teppotee, 31 January 2014 - 06:47 PM.


#97 Pinball999

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 06:48 PM

OK, this is not Stutter related..

When I start the game, it happens that the two targets below Frank are down, so there is no way to collect the body parts.

When they are up, I collect all parts until the head, and then nothing.. I touch the targets again and again but the multiball does not start..

Long story short, I've never seen Frank standing up :(



#98 zany

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 07:01 PM

Thanks jimmy for the detailed comments. FPS that are sent to GPU might be one factor but for example with MB: In XP I got mostly around 65 FPS and only sometimes it jumped to over 200 for few secs. All the time GPU utilization remained about the same. In Win7 I get around 45 FPS and almost no GPU utilization and really bad performance. So I just think that in this case the FPS difference is not so big (45 vs 65) that it would explain the huge GPU utilization differences. Although this is the first time I have started to look deeper into these things so I have just reported what I see without fully understanding the possible underlying reasons for the behaviour. 

 

Zany: I actually had task manager also on the backglass without any difference to stuttering. Crazy many variables in this whole performance equation :)

I also have...in editor menu....vsync set to 1 and alpharamp slider all the way to the left.......wow, this is wierdo! :D
And...not the task manager....the other one! :)



#99 jimmyfingers

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 07:08 PM

@Pinball999 - that should be the NVRAM deletion aspect that UW mentions in the release notes and can be found earlier in this thread - after sifting through all the stutter talk :)

 

@Teppo - that's interesting and a good bit of extra information clarifying about the FPS in XP being not too much higher yet still jumping up at times as somehow I got the impression you had got consistently around 200 FPS which matched a lot more to the potential FPS / GPU ratio difference - maybe it was just the FPS from what others were reporting with XP earlier in the thread and the general gap / factor on FPS / GPU between XP and 7 was still fitting.  I can say for sure though that within Windows 7, GPU is definitely affected by the FPS from VP very proportionately, however, I think that's assuming an "average" modern table / MOD with some of the more advanced aspects being included like some alpha flashers and a few primitives.  I would encourage others to also use a graphics card monitoring tool (at least during diagnostics - not necessarily leaving running for regular play) and assess the GPU usage as it can be valuable for tuning tables for best performance.  However, one major finding I'm noticing is that overall the graphics card is not seemingly as important / utilized with VP as seems to be CPU / MB and the only reason it is more heavily a factor in my set-up / situation is because I force AA on and that increases the load on the card considerably.  Again, very useful with GPUTweak or similar to observe the impact of all potential VP / nVidia control panel configurations (also for heat on the card if oveclocking your GPU).


Edited by jimmyfingers, 31 January 2014 - 07:10 PM.


#100 BobAlbright

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 07:11 PM

Earlier in this thread that was brought up. You need to delete your current nvram. Then frank will stand up

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