2087 replies to this topic

[bodydump]

 

Confirmed the ball cut-off and it can be resolved as purported with setting the kicker in question to either "KickerHidden" or "KickerInvisible" and placing on a surface of 5-10 in height (I use 8h which seems to work with most tables but on a quick default table overhead view I could go smaller and down to 5 so it will depend a bit on the view settings).  

 

So, that's all you need to do to fix it at a table level.  Most tables will have a couple *h objects so find one like 15h or 25h, copy it in place (make sure it's not in view on the table), rename it to 8h, and adjust the height from what it was to 8 ("Top Height").  Then make sure the desired kicker "surface" field is set to this new 8h and that the kicker "Display" field near the top is either of the to modes mentioned.  

 

Color me clueless, but I have a hard time following this

I tried to fix Nitro Ground Shaker but don't know how to do what you described. There is no height adjustment I could see for kicker objects and in that table there was no *h object either.

I guess even if this is a possible way, it cannot be the solution going forward since most people will not know how to fix the kicker problem and it is unlikely that all table authors will update their tables to keep them compatible with the DX9 player. So hopefully there will be a way to correct this in VP instead of having to modify all tables that have a kicker cup.

 

Make a small invisible wall with a height of 8 units called 8h and then choose that wall (8h) as the surface for the kicker in the pull down in the kicker options.

[mukuste]

Make a small invisible wall with a height of 8 units called 8h and then choose that wall (8h) as the surface for the kicker in the pull down in the kicker options.

 

 

Please read my post above, there should be no need.

[jimmyfingers]

It's a fix also though for tables if people want to run forced AA in the DX7 builds so it depends on whether people want to update for also backward compatibility when forcing AA in the nVidia control panel and playing these tables in VP921.  Also, a number of tables already have this "fix" built-in and the kickers raised so it's already out there to a reasonable degree.  

 

However, if you can resolve in the DX9 builds and with how close we are to compatibility, then people will likely just play them in DX9 and no updates on the table side in this regard / for this particular issue would be needed as you say.  That would also be good then to revert the other table's where this height increase was made for AA compatibility with DX7 builds as ideally it would be best not to have the ball raised at all in the kicker.   It's at least good to have the option and knowledge to fix just in case and my description for fixing was also in the regard of more than just the DX9 build - even if admittedly that would classify the post as slightly high-jacking

 

@htamas - a bit moot now but the "*h" was meant to mean anything / any number ending in an "h" - a wildcard - as those are walls typically created (and invisible or off table) for height based helpers / surface assignments (i.e. would have been a good source for copying and creating a new one to then be assigned to the kicker)

Edited by jimmyfingers, 01 March 2014 - 08:34 PM.

[bodydump]

 

Make a small invisible wall with a height of 8 units called 8h and then choose that wall (8h) as the surface for the kicker in the pull down in the kicker options.

 

 

Please read my post above, there should be no need.

 

He asked, I answered. Sorry.  I'll just keep quiet.

[mukuste]

Ah, ok, I didn't realize that this workaround already fulfilled a purpose in the DX7 builds, I thought it was tailored at the new engine. In that case, if it fixes the issues in both versions, there's at least some merit to it.

[gtxjoe]

The Simpsons Pinball Party Megapin 1.2

http://www.vpforums....s&showfile=2406

 

1) Animated LED board not working - must be similar to Monopoly issue reported

2) Animated Homer Head has black background - This is the black transparency light issue.  Fix:  Open image manager, Select all H1, H2, H3 and H4 images and set tranparency to Black  

[htamas]

 

 

Confirmed the ball cut-off and it can be resolved as purported with setting the kicker in question to either "KickerHidden" or "KickerInvisible" and placing on a surface of 5-10 in height (I use 8h which seems to work with most tables but on a quick default table overhead view I could go smaller and down to 5 so it will depend a bit on the view settings).  

 

So, that's all you need to do to fix it at a table level.  Most tables will have a couple *h objects so find one like 15h or 25h, copy it in place (make sure it's not in view on the table), rename it to 8h, and adjust the height from what it was to 8 ("Top Height").  Then make sure the desired kicker "surface" field is set to this new 8h and that the kicker "Display" field near the top is either of the to modes mentioned.  

 

Color me clueless, but I have a hard time following this

I tried to fix Nitro Ground Shaker but don't know how to do what you described. There is no height adjustment I could see for kicker objects and in that table there was no *h object either.

I guess even if this is a possible way, it cannot be the solution going forward since most people will not know how to fix the kicker problem and it is unlikely that all table authors will update their tables to keep them compatible with the DX9 player. So hopefully there will be a way to correct this in VP instead of having to modify all tables that have a kicker cup.

 

Make a small invisible wall with a height of 8 units called 8h and then choose that wall (8h) as the surface for the kicker in the pull down in the kicker options.

 

 

Thank you both, this worked perfectly.

[jimmyfingers]

Ok, so the AA flickering issue and the thing I noticed...

 

After looking closely at the flickering states when AA is enabled in VP9_DX9 (via general preferences or specific to the table) or forced in the nVidia control panel then pausing to assess, I can see that one of the apparent two images being displayed / alternated is being done so with what appears to be incorrect transparency settings and / or ordering issues (as can be seen through what should be transparent sections and also the edges of the lower plastics that were highlighted earlier in this thread while dealing / providing bug reports for the ordering issues.

 

Here is a screen shot of both states of the table in what appears to be why it's flickering in that the images are actually changing in the regard above:

First, what looks normal:

 Capture of Centaur WIP (60b) during AA flickering Issues (Image in normal rendered state of flickering - alternating).PNG   1.47MB   16 downloads

 

Now the captured "flickered" / non-transparent and / or incorrectly ordered stage:

 Capture of Centaur WIP (60b) during AA flickering Issues (Image is altered not just flickering and appearing non-transparent).PNG   1.46MB   16 downloads

 

These were captured in one running of the table just using the escape key at the right times.  

 

The ball is still another deal it would seem and also the bottom of the base / heals of the flippers as lines appear through them when they're rotated with AA enabled.  I've tried turning off the ball anti-aliasing, which also disabled the ball transparency at least in previous DX7 builds, as well as ball decals, and even tried setting the ball image to a solid green square texture using a .bmp file and it always still flickers.  So, it doesn't seem to be just transparent related solely and as far as the ball at least something else must be going on in the code.  However, I'm hoping the find that the flickered image is actually not correctly ordered / transparent may provide some food for thought or an idea of things to check.

 

By the way and a side note, at the moment it appears ball decals are not working / showing in the latest VP9_DX9_test7 build nor any previous version.

 

Further to these findings on the AA flickering issue, while testing and verifying the above, I tried to replace the transparent ramp for the plastics layer with a flasher object instead (just for the hell of it).  It yielded two interesting findings, first it appeared to not be affected by the flickering issue with AA enabled and maybe the flasher object could be investigated at a code level and compared to the ramp objects as to why the former seems to work better around this blinking issue.  Second, a new problem arose where there appears to be an issue with a flasher object (at least without additive alpha enabled) when placed above a ramp with additive alpha enabled.  In the Centaur WIP I had the plastics layer as a static test "flasher" at 55.8 and the additive alpha gi ramp objects below it at 52.8 were shining / affecting the top of the plastic instead of only the areas beneath (i.e. not ordered correctly).  This was not dependant on AA or any other setting and would not yield the same issue (worked correctly) when ran in the VP921rev930 build.  So, that seems to be a new / isolated incident on it's own.  

 

However, if I replaced / tested an additive alpha gi ramp section with a flasher object instead, at the same lower height I could get the whole area to be blink free with AA enabled and display correctly. BUT, and here's where it gets really weird, I would have to actually set the flasher object test additive alpha gi object - that is lower (52.8) - to be drawn "in front" of the higher set 55.8 transparent plastics "flasher" object, which is totally opposite to what one would expect to get the lights drawn under the transparent plastic.  I will send a link to the table where I've done these changes to you mukuste in a PM so you can check out.  Here is a screen shot of the pseudo fixed but weird flasher object for plastics images work-around / test - note the lower-mid right plastic by the launch lane displaying the additive alpha gi flasher object correctly but this is only when it was set to draw in front:

 Capture of Centaur WIP (60b) with AA flickering Issues somewhat resolved by changing ramp to flash object but new problems with ordering of Additive Alpha GI ramp underneath (highlighted).PNG   1.48MB   16 downloads

 

What this also means through these tests is that even in the current build of test7, I can actually alter the behaviour of the rendering still by using the draw in front / back options for the flasher object so there's something with that (at least when it's got the additive alpha options set and / or in the combination of factors as in the test table / scenario).

 

I've got a test table and some screen captures to focus on the higher flasher object over a lower additive gi alpha ramp issue that works in DX7 but not in DX9 (no AA related) and will post those and the test table in a follow-up post - this ones getting long / full again

 

Maybe between Toxie and you mukuste this may be of some assistance.  FXAA looks pretty good and doesn't seem to be as blurry as in VP921 (if the OS / driver version combination supports it).  However, aside from the flickering, AA in these DX9 builds looks wicked and really smooths out all objects making the table just that much more realistic looking.  FXAA still doesn't smooth some parts as well (whether forced in nVidia control panel or using the built-in quality mode).  It would be great to get real AA (MS or CS modes) to work blink free as that would really bring this process to a great level in that arguably a holy grail of VP9 was that of actual supported AA finally working (no black lines, no bad edges on dynamic objects / drop walls, etc.).

 

Thanks again for bringing this to the point it already is and options we currently have.

 

[PinballPerson]

From a VP "veteran" to mukuste:

 

Bloody good work mate!

Amazing!

 

[Slydog43]

kicker trouble with Haunted House FS.

 

version - Haunted House (Gottlieb)(1982)(JP Salas)(1.1)

 

Kicker is black at the upper left.  Cuts off ball.  Tried invisible wall at height 8, but didn't fix it.

[jimmyfingers]

kicker trouble with Haunted House FS.

 

version - Haunted House (Gottlieb)(1982)(JP Salas)(1.1)

 

Kicker is black at the upper left.  Cuts off ball.  Tried invisible wall at height 8, but didn't fix it.

That's because the kicker is already surfaced on the object "playfield" which is at top height "400" make a new wall object that is 8-15 units higher than the "playfield" surface and it should work.  This is something to always be kept in mind as the 8h-15h rule is assuming a playfield at zero. If you see that a kicker is already surfaced on an object, than check what that is and adjust accordingly.

[Slydog43]

thanks for the quick reply and making these things easy and fun to learn about.  Ball does NOT get cut off now, thanks.  Still black spot on table now.  I tried moving wall up down, transparent, but I don't know what I am doing. JF, do you mind telling me this fix.  Thanks   (fun making fixes) 

 

Could I put a decal of a kicker cup on ??

 

 

Also after changing the Transparency in Atlantis (Bally)(1989)(Icpjuggla, Oldskoolgamer, Herweh)(1.2 Mod), lights don't black out.  The post inbetween the flippers goes black when in the down position.  I tried changing the post images to use black transparency, but no go.  any ideas on this one?

Edited by Slydog43, 02 March 2014 - 02:58 AM.

[darquayle]

I've been testing these updates since the first version and after about the fourth test version, I updated my Cab to play either the DX9 version or the DX7 version depending upon the table.  Today, after testing v7, I am very happy to say all of my tables on my cab (~135) are now running the DX9 version.  There are still a few minor glitches but nothing that jumps out and detracts from the game play.  Mukuste, you are incredible.  Your talent, dedication, and perservernce are truly inspiring.  JimmyFingers, You are the very best at troubleshooting and explaining how things work.  Reading your posts is like taking a 300 level college course on how VP works.  And a huge thanks to all of the others who have helped push this major acomplishment to this level in such a short time.  You make me very proud to be part of this community.  GREAT JOB!

[Ark Malmeida]

Bug Report:

 

On Ripley's Believe it or Not, the daytime lighted version (Ripleys_Believe_It_or_Not_VP912_2.0FS - http://www.vpforums....s&showfile=6964) there are some cases where the shrunken head, instead of flashing, is replaced by a giant flasher object.  This happens anytime the head magnet target is hit after the ball lock is lit and other times after that as well.

 

 

 

I just wanted to echo all the other sentiments about how amazing the work has been on VP DX9 so far - besides minor issues like this one, it runs so incredibly well.  Great job all!

Edited by Ark Malmeida, 02 March 2014 - 04:07 AM.

[naboodiver]

Bug Report:

 

On Ripley's Believe it or Not, the daytime lighted version (Ripleys_Believe_It_or_Not_VP912_2.0FS - http://www.vpforums....s&showfile=6964) there are some cases where the shrunken head, instead of flashing, is replaced by a giant flasher object.  This happens anytime the head magnet target is hit after the ball lock is lit and other times after that as well.

 

 

 

I just wanted to echo all the other sentiments about how amazing the work has been on VP DX9 so far - besides minor issues like this one, it runs so incredibly well.  Great job all!

 

ditto...  Giant Flasher beware of the Giant Flasher.. lol

[ClarkKent]

Also noticed some texture distortions in Roadshow (on some lamps and the jaws of the heads). Wasn't there in last test version.

Edited by ClarkKent, 02 March 2014 - 08:11 AM.

[mukuste]

Bug Report:

 

On Ripley's Believe it or Not, the daytime lighted version (Ripleys_Believe_It_or_Not_VP912_2.0FS - http://www.vpforums....s&showfile=6964) there are some cases where the shrunken head, instead of flashing, is replaced by a giant flasher object.  This happens anytime the head magnet target is hit after the ball lock is lit and other times after that as well.

 

 

 

I just wanted to echo all the other sentiments about how amazing the work has been on VP DX9 so far - besides minor issues like this one, it runs so incredibly well.  Great job all!

 

That was a fun one... I was already thinking that with hundreds if not thousands of tables out there, we'd sooner or later run into a hash collision. It's fixed in the next release.

[Tropi]

Black Rose: the playfield light inserts are faint and flash a lot weaker than when playing with the DX7 version.
 
I tried several other tables and they play great... some play so much better than using the 9.21 player that there is no contest. Great job, thanks a lot.

with test7 I get this error:
impossible to start the program because d3dx9_35.dll is missing.

 
http://www.vpforums....=26714&p=257033

I'm getting the same error as Argo. Not sure if the fix explained above as valid for Windows 8.1, what my cab is running. by default it is DX11, which should included all versions below.
Any idea on this?

Thank you

[mukuste]

No, DX11 doesn't include DX9. Use the web installer linked in the post.

[gtxjoe]

Also after changing the Transparency in Atlantis (Bally)(1989)(Icpjuggla, Oldskoolgamer, Herweh)(1.2 Mod), lights don't black out.  The post inbetween the flippers goes black when in the down position.  I tried changing the post images to use black transparency, but no go.  any ideas on this one?

I couldn't figure out a workaround. mukuste, to test the animated BumperPost primitive, open debug window and type in "solbumperpost 1" to toggle between up and down positions.(for those that want to try this, you need to click on the playfield afterward, to allow the table to execute)