1103 replies to this topic

[sirwoogie]

I do not see it drop when testing the knocker output. Verified I see the drop with the strobe pin.

 

I went from working, to lower voltage, to nothing at all. Hah! I went through and re-solder the part of the circuit I could see from the eagle tracing and re-did efforts around the board and the KL25Z pins for good measure. Still same result.

 

Looks like continuity is next? Any top places to hit? Or, not worth it and just use a chime pin?

 

Thanks for sticking with me on this!

[mjr]

sirwoogie - The chime pins are exactly the same functionally, so you can definitely fall back on that if you want to move on.  Out of curiosity, if you go back and try the old test with the meter probes on +5V and knocker, does it reproduce the previous behavior?  Just wondering if something has actually changed on the board or if the results are just different in the two cases.  I suspect it's the latter - I suspect that if you go back and do that voltmeter test again it'll look like it did before.  But if you're not seeing any voltage change with the resistor attached, that suggests that maybe the MOSFET is dead after all.  Either that or there's a solder joint problem.  If you just re-flowed the MOSFET leads, that would make a solder problem less likely.  Do you have a spare MOSFET that you could swap in?  It's a huge pain to unsolder those things, but it might be worth trying at some point if you can't identify any solder problems.

 

Before doing that, what you might try is to see if you can get a reading on the voltage on the MOSFET "gate" lead during the activation test.  The gate lead is the one on the "top", if you're holding the board so that the PINSCAPE logo text is oriented like normal text - board face up, knocker connector on the left edge.  The easiest place to hit with the voltmeter probe will be the "left" lead of R13 ("left" with the board in that same orientation).  Hit that with the RED voltmeter probe, and keep the BLACK probe on ground.  You should see 0V normally, and +12V when you trigger the output.  The +12V should be on for the normal ~2 seconds and then drop back to 0V.  If that test passes, and you're sure the three MOSFET pins are soldered properly, it's almost certainly a dead MOSFET.  If that test doesn't pass, we can work back through the timer circuit to see what's going on.

 

Be really careful with these live power-on tests that you don't let the voltmeter probe touch more than one pin/lead at a time.  It's really easy to short nearby leads together.  If you have some small alligator clips that you can hook onto the resistor leads, that would be ideal - hook them up with the power off and then be careful not to move anything while the power is on.

Edited by mjr, 26 February 2021 - 03:47 AM.

[sirwoogie]

It was in fact the main board knocker MOSFET at Q1. I replaced it with a spare MOSFET (always fun to get de-soldered those MOSFETs) and now tests fine. Thanks for all the help!

[sirwoogie]

On to my next issue: Power Board

 

I have 4 of the 16 pins (I only did half the board) that show a reduced voltage when tested with a multi-meter (MM).

I attach to +5V off the power supply on RED MM . I then touch each power board pin with BLACK MM. Most read the expected +5VDC. However, four of them register 3.7V. I've verified the PWM is set to 255 on all outputs. I also see with a LED test a reduced output there as well.

It also maintains that voltage during an output test whether it is on or off

 

Any idea what that might be?

[mjr]

It was in fact the main board knocker MOSFET at Q1. I replaced it with a spare MOSFET (always fun to get de-soldered those MOSFETs) and now tests fine. Thanks for all the help!

 

Excellent! Glad you were able to desolder it successfully. Definitely a huge pain.

 

 

On to my next issue: Power Board

 

I have 4 of the 16 pins (I only did half the board) that show a reduced voltage when tested with a multi-meter (MM).

I attach to +5V off the power supply on RED MM . I then touch each power board pin with BLACK MM. Most read the expected +5VDC. However, four of them register 3.7V. I've verified the PWM is set to 255 on all outputs. I also see with a LED test a reduced output there as well.

It also maintains that voltage during an output test whether it is on or off

 

The test you actually want to do is that resistor test I outlined for the knocker output.  The power board outputs are open-drain MOSFETs, which means that when the port is OFF, the output pin "floats" (it isn't connected to anything at all), and when it's ON, it's a low-resistance path to ground (0V).  So the way to test that is:

 

Output pin ----- 1K resistor ---- +5V

 

Then connect meter black to ground, and meter red to the output pin.  When the port is OFF in the software, it should read +5V, because the port isn't connected to anything on the MOSFET side and so it's just giving you a path through the resistor straight to +5V.  When the port is ON, it should be conducting to ground, so you should see 0V (actually a couple of millivolts, because the MOSFET has a small internal ON resistance in the milliOhm range).  

(The size of the resistor doesn't matter too much - anything from about 100 ohms to 10k should work.)

[sirwoogie]

Re-soldered all the components of the pins affected, and that solved the issue. The MOSFET looked good, however the resistors are just so tight that it's hard to see problems. Redoing the resistors I think did the trick and all measure voltage correctly on/off now.

Here is hoping the chime board gives me less fits with a little more care in construction.

[mjr]

Re-soldered all the components of the pins affected, and that solved the issue. The MOSFET looked good, however the resistors are just so tight that it's hard to see problems. Redoing the resistors I think did the trick and all measure voltage correctly on/off now.

Here is hoping the chime board gives me less fits with a little more care in construction.

That's great news!  I'm glad it wasn't more bad components.

 

Good luck with the chime board.  Hopefully that'll go a little smoother for you.

[sirwoogie]

Not totally smooth on Chime board, but hopefully easy fix.

 

Chime Board ports: none work

I have three timer circuits built. All fail the LED test on software activation (verified LED works using strobe on main board). I followed the section in debugging the expansion boards. I have checked continuity on data cable on all pins between main board and chime board. I have checked continuity on all pins of CHIME/DIG on both boards to their respective components on the boards (also data cable is in the right direction and correct IN/OUT locations). I have checked continuity from KL25Z to 74HC595 as listed in the debug section.

 

The test that fails is live voltage test of pin 13 on 74HC595: reading 3.3V, not 0.6V. I have checked R3, R4 and T7 on the main board. I have resoldered all. Resistance through resistors is correct value and all show continuity along the path in schematic.

Any suggestions on what to check next?

Edited by sirwoogie, 14 March 2021 - 03:26 AM.

[mjr]

The test that fails is live voltage test of pin 13 on 74HC595: reading 3.3V, not 0.6V. I have checked R3, R4 and T7 on the main board. I have resoldered all. Resistance through resistors is correct value and all show continuity along the path in schematic.

Pin 13 is the "enable" pin for the 74HC595, active low, so it definitely makes sense that nothing would work if that's staying high - good job narrowing it down to that.  That's actively controlled from software via the main board.  I'm sure you've already added the chime board to the software configuration, so it's just a matter of figuring out why the Enable signal isn't getting through from the GPIO to Pin 13.  And you're quite right to trace it through those parts (R3, R4, T7) on the main board. 

 

I guess the next thing to check is that the GPIO line is generating the right signal going into T7.  If you can get a live voltage reading at the KL25Z pin that runs out to R3 (it's "PTD4" on the KL25Z), that should read high (around 3.3V) when the software is running.  (As usual, that's 3.3V with respect to ground, so you want to connect the meter black probe to one of the ground pins and measure PTD4 with the red probe.)

 

If PTD4 isn't reading ~3.3V, then there's either a software problem or a dead GPIO port.  I think isolated dead GPIO ports are unlikely with the KL25Z - if there's a hardware problem like that, it pretty much always kills the whole board, from everything I've heard.  If it is reading 3.3V, and the ENA line is also reading high, I think that would implicate T7 - either it's installed backwards or it's dead or there's a bad solder joint.  I know you checked the last one already, but it might be worth another check to be absolutely sure, if the reading on the GPIO looks right.

[sirwoogie]

So PTD4 was showing 3.3V when software on. Pin 13 was also showing high (3.3V) so I replaced T7 (I verified part# and orientation) with a new one. Same result unfortunately, none of the three chime pins activate. I've checked each of those circuits as best I can but I'd figure I would have gotten at least one right. I have the IC's in the correct orientation. But, that pin 13 failing to go low obviously is suspect, or I'm measuring wrong.

 

I'm not sure what else I can do. I might just add more ports to the power board and  use the chime logic software override and hope I never fry it.

 

I welcome anything else to check.

[mjr]

So PTD4 was showing 3.3V when software on. Pin 13 was also showing high (3.3V) so I replaced T7 (I verified part# and orientation) with a new one. Same result unfortunately, none of the three chime pins activate. 

 

Sounds like it has to be either T7 on the main board, or something in the continuity path between T7 and Pin 13 - there's really nothing else involved.  Try measuring the voltage with respect to ground at the T7 emitter side of R4 on the main board (that's the lead facing "up", if you're holding the board with the T7 marking facing right-side up, or to put it another way, the side that's pointing towards the nearby TLC5940).  That should read low (around 0.6V) when the PTD4 is reading high. 

 

If that's not reading low, the most likely explanation is that T7 is bad or has a bad solder joint. If you can, check continuity between that lead of R4 and the emitter leg of T7 (the "top" leg of T7, in the same sense that we're talking about the "top" lead of R4), and between the "bottom" leg of T7 and ground, and between the middle leg of T7 and the "left" leg of R3.  I know it's hard to reach the individual legs of the transistor once it's soldered in, but if you can, it's the best place to test continuity, because testing at the solder pad only tests that the pad is connected, and can miss a bad solder joint to the leg.

 

If the T7 emitter (at R4) is reading low at the proper times, it pretty much has to be continuity between there and Pin 13.

 

There are other possible explanations if you're absolutely sure that T7 isn't the problem and that the continuity is all good, but they all seem extremely improbable:  R4 is 0-ohm resistor, or the 74HC595 has an internal short on Pin 13 to Vcc.

As a last resort, you could conceivably add a jumper wire to hard-wire Pin 13 on the 74HC595 to Ground, to permanently enable the chip and override the software control.  I'd personally avoid that at all costs.  The reason for the software control is that the 74HC595 starts up with its outputs in a random state, so you really want it to be disabled until the software has a chance to initialize the outputs to OFF, because otherwise half of your chime board devices will tend to fire randomly on every startup for a fraction of a second.  That's not usually harmful but it can be annoying and disconcerting.  (The original Williams System 11 pinball machines are notorious for having this very design flaw in their control boards.  My Whirlwind fires several solenoids at once when I power it up about 10% of the time, which is kind of alarming with those 50V pinball solenoids.)

Edited by mjr, 14 March 2021 - 08:33 PM.

[johnnyicecube]

Hi Mike!  Love your Pinscape board and it is all working perfectly with ten Siemen’s contactors, lights, your beautiful digital plunger, etc.  I don’t know if you got my emails but I had wanted to get another one or two.  I noticed you prefer orders and questions placed here so thought I would back up my request with this post.  And thank you so much for your answers in a couple emails, which certainly goes above and beyond imo!  I’m so glad you love pinball enough to offer these great tools.  It is so incredibly fun to go back and play all these tables again, especially with feedback.  Time to make a couple donations to this community.  To anyone considering the Pinscape product, it is just beautifully made.

Edited by johnnyicecube, 22 March 2021 - 01:36 AM.

[johnnyicecube]

Donation made....Lifetime member!  What an awesome site....a big thank you to everyone that contributes here as I love pinball and am not a “techie”.  Hopefully I can contribute in other ways.

[mjr]

johnnyicecube - I'm not sure if you're trying to reach me or Mikepinball about his all-in-one boards.  If it's me you're trying to reach, I don't think any of your emails have gotten through, so you might PM'ing me in case emails are getting blocked/lost somewhere along the way.  If you're trying to reach Mikepinball, he has a couple of other threads about his products that he probably monitors more closely than this one, and you can PM him on here too.

[gloonk]

ok so i have been reading the bible and watching videos but I think i'm overloading and second guessing myself so I just need some clarity please.

Ive purchased the All in one builders kit and have all my buttons ( note ive not bought the leaf switch buttons as as suggested and would have gladly paid for to have them with the kit but I digess. so I won't be using the leds as supplied for those flipper switches) and plunger etc. I have not at this point purchased any secondary power supplies ie 5,12,24 volt power supplies.

The way Ive read it, is that I can power the pinscape board up with the usb cable provided and that will run the plunger (wiper,3.3v and ground inputs from pinscape to plunger) and the buttons (flippers, start, coin button, launch ball etc) can be wired from 1 through to 8 with separate wires from the positive on the switches and a ground cable daisy chaining all the common/negative points on the switches to the ground terminal on the pinscape board( the ground next to button 1 on the board).

If I am correct the usb will run all these and I will not need a secondary power supply?

Only if I wire up the led's for the buttons (start, launch etc) then I will need the secondary power supplies?

Is this correct?

Thanks

Jason

[MikePinball]

Jason,

 

Correct. You don't need an additional power providing all you want is 24 input buttons and a potentiometer plunger. That will certainly get you started. Note that there is no "positive" for a switch per se so you can choose either side. The other side should be commoned to ground.

 

Between MJR's build guide and the Pinscape AIO user guide you should have all the information you need. Double-check your wiring. It is surprising how many people get things wrong.

 

If you want to use just the low current opto/LED outputs then the logic 5V power is sufficient.

 

I would suggest you get the Virtuapin mounted leaf switches and PAL nuts for the RGB flipper boards as they make quite a difference. You can try this after you get basic DOF framework working with simple  button LEDs.

[gloonk]

Thanks for the reply and for confirming my thoughts. Regarding the leaf switches, I would definitely consider them if shipping wasnt outrageously expensive - $55 $US  - for $16 dollars of parts  is close to $100 Australian all up. Hence why I suggested you might want to include them in the AIO builders kit ( at an extra cost of course). Would sort of make sense seeing as the optos and flipper buttons are included and are sort of useless without the leaf switches.

 

Thanks

 

Jason

 

Edit: Mt wife often says that sometimes my posts come across as being rude, and I can assure you that is not my intention here. Really appreciate your time to reply and the fact that you have put so much time into providing your products the vpin community

Edited by gloonk, 06 April 2021 - 09:02 AM.

[pintris72]

Hi,

I have a shaker motor (regular model with two wires + and -) (picture 1) and a full pinscape with 2 expansions boards (picture 2). I ONLY want to hook up this shaker motor to the board, apart from the pinball cabinet buttons (but I know how this works).

I want to make use of the PWM feature of the expansion board so that DOF will make the motor variable speed dependant on the game situation. 

My simple question is, what is the installation diagram for doing this? What wires and connectors do I need? I do not find any easy "installation setup" for this.

Can someone explain how I hook this up (also, with power cables, data cables  etc.) ?

Thank you

 

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[mjr]

The ports on the MOSFET power board are all PWM-capable, so you can use one of those.  See "Wiring" here:

 

http://mjrnet.org/pi...php?sid=shakers

[pintris72]

The ports on the MOSFET power board are all PWM-capable, so you can use one of those.  See "Wiring" here:

 

http://mjrnet.org/pi...php?sid=shakers

Okay thanks for the reply. I got it. Only one thing to be sure: To connect the shaker motor to the board, I have a row of 8 "PINS"  and a green "set" of screw terminals also of 8, next to it. (this is on the lower board of the two boards). Can I use one of these screw terminals as well as the pins? (the screw terminals would be easier to connect).

Edited by pintris72, 21 July 2021 - 12:18 PM.