1488 replies to this topic

[kiwi]

The change of the name of the objects (they all seem to me) are not implemented in the undo history.

[fuzzel]

For the moment the transition to inch/mm would be enough...

That is pretty hard to add if you want a consistent handling of the units. The editor values could be converted to VP units internally but what about the values from the script? These have to be in VP units again because you can't tell if the user is using inch, mm or VP units.

The change of the name of the objects (they all seem to me) are not implemented in the undo history.

Yes that is missing due to the internal handling how the name is processed in the code viewer and the UI. I tried to fix this but as soon as you press ctrl+z VP crashes.

Edited by fuzzel, 12 June 2019 - 06:24 PM.

[bord]

 

I'm personally against using a game engine, as the main fun i have contributing to VPX is that i have full control over everything, which also can pay off, one prominent example being the split into static and dynamic rendering that we use nowadays. Similar things could be done when going full dynamic lighting as most of the table is still static geometry all the time, so the tricks to get high quality lighting can vary a lot from games.

Plus one not only gets all the goods but also all the bads from using such a huge thingie

 

 

I really loved hearing this response about the future of VP. I'm all for pushing VP forward, especially into dynamic lighting and possibly raytracing, but I also would hate to see it lose its character as, essentially, a community DIY endeavor. Customizing the software to the unique demands of virtual pinball instead of using a game engine seems like a good way to cater to what we do. It can also differentiate us from the commercial pinball offerings, which going forward we need to be increasingly conscientious about.

 

Thanks devs for being thoughtful about the best ways to make progress.

[psmiraglia]

[That is pretty hard to add if you want a consistent handling of the units. The editor values could be converted to VP units internally but what about the values from the script? These have to be in VP units again because you can't tell if the user is using inch, mm or VP units.]

Couldn’t a flag at the beginning of the script, something like “#units = metric”, help ? By default script units would be “vp units” for backward compatibility... The editor’s units could be a “preference” value...

[jpsalas]

The latest revision still crashes a lot when quitting VPX:

 

Crash report VPX rev3723
============
Process: VPinballX.exe
Reason: 0xC0000005 - EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION at 0023:77B51E0B
Attempt to write to 0x00000014
Thread ID: 0x17D4 [6100]

Call stack
==========
77B51E0B ntdll.dll LdrRemoveLoadAsDataTable + 0x61B (0x07DA2620 0x02DE1E70 0x0019CFEC 0xffffffffffffffff)
77B4FF16 ntdll.dll RtlEnterCriticalSection + 0x126 (0x004F98C5 0x0019CFE0 0x004F9A07 0x07da2698)
77B4FE39 ntdll.dll RtlEnterCriticalSection + 0x49 (0x07DA2698 0x02D8BBD0 0x75436D20 0x0019faa0)
004F9A07 VPinballX.exe (0x75445A69 0x00008001 0x0052BB47 0x00090494)
0052BB47 VPinballX.exe (0x00000001 0x00090494 0x00000002 0x00070614)

Environment
===========
Date/time: 13/6/2019, 04:58:50:257
Number of CPUs: 8
Processor type: 586
System: Windows 10 (10.0 17763)

Memory status
=============
Total Reserved: 274424K (267M) bytes
Total Commited: 591404K (577M) bytes
Total Free: 3328412K (3250M) bytes
Largest Free: 2095476K (2046M) bytes

Registers
=========
EAX=00000000 EBX=FFFFFF00 ECX=07DA26A8 EDX=FFFFFFFF
ESI=07DA2698 EDI=FFFFFFFF EBP=00000000 ESP=0019D150 EIP=0052CE7E
FLG=00210213 CS=0023 DS=002B SS=002B ES=002B FS=0053 GS=002B

[toxie]

Is there a consistent repro for you JP?

[ClarkKent]

 

For the moment the transition to inch/mm would be enough...

That is pretty hard to add if you want a consistent handling of the units. The editor values could be converted to VP units internally but what about the values from the script? These have to be in VP units again because you can't tell if the user is using inch, mm or VP units.

Then only inches without converting it internally, I think the VP units are outdated. Almost all pinball machines are from the US anyway. I do not see a benefit from the VP units but it would be a huge improvement to use a real measuring system like inches instead for constructing tables.

[fuzzel]

Well the problem still exists what about the values in the script? The whole scripting framework (core.vbs for example) is based on VP units. I don't see a way to add a conversion function that doesn't break compatibility with all existing tables. Even defining a unit at the beginning of a script won't solve the problem without rewriting the complete framework.

[Rawnei]

Well the problem still exists what about the values in the script? The whole scripting framework (core.vbs for example) is based on VP units. I don't see a way to add a conversion function that doesn't break compatibility with all existing tables. Even defining a unit at the beginning of a script won't solve the problem without rewriting the complete framework.

 

How about other way around? Default is assumed VP units unless otherwise defined in script? So existing scripts wouldn't have to change.

[jpsalas]

Is there a consistent repro for you JP?

I'll see if I can reproduce it. Usually I load two tables and I copy/paste in the editor, and when I quit it then the error comes. It is not an important one, but I'll see if I can reproduce easily

[BorgDog]

 

Is there a consistent repro for you JP?

I'll see if I can reproduce it. Usually I load two tables and I copy/paste in the editor, and when I quit it then the error comes. It is not an important one, but I'll see if I can reproduce easily

 

 

I commonly have that as well if I open multiple tables.  Most frequently happens if I just hit the X to close VP, if I do file close on each file until no tables are open that usually works right. but not always.  tried but can't reproduce consistently, and it doesn't always happen.

[jpsalas]

 

 

Is there a consistent repro for you JP?

I'll see if I can reproduce it. Usually I load two tables and I copy/paste in the editor, and when I quit it then the error comes. It is not an important one, but I'll see if I can reproduce easily

 

 

I commonly have that as well if I open multiple tables.  Most frequently happens if I just hit the X to close VP, if I do file close on each file until no tables are open that usually works right. but not always.  tried but can't reproduce consistently, and it doesn't always happen.

 

I tried now 10 times, and it worked fine the 10 times. And I use the X to close all the tables too

[toxie]

 

Well the problem still exists what about the values in the script? The whole scripting framework (core.vbs for example) is based on VP units. I don't see a way to add a conversion function that doesn't break compatibility with all existing tables. Even defining a unit at the beginning of a script won't solve the problem without rewriting the complete framework.

 

How about other way around? Default is assumed VP units unless otherwise defined in script? So existing scripts wouldn't have to change.

 

 

That would be an option. Any volunteers to tackle the core scripts? This is the stuff that nobody really seems to understand in detail anymore.

[toxie]

Perhaps the value that the plunger returns is a bit low (position from 0 to 25),

I don't have a fluid movement if I move a mesh, if you could have a higher value like 0 to 250, or what is more convenient.

 

Thanks!

 

I changed Position() so that it returns a float instead of an integer, so that should do the trick (please let me know if it doesn't, and, to everybody else: Could this break some tables??)

[toxie]

2 requests...  Would it be possible to make flippers collidable non-collidable via the script?  Second..  I love exporting the table to obj to check the placement of things..  could there be an option to export collidable objects only? (even if hidden)  Also maybe an option to export flashers, even if just a big square would be great....  Thanks!!

 

As for the first one: Isn't it possible to simply use the flipper elements 'Enabled' property? That should work IMHO..

[Knorr]

 

 

Well the problem still exists what about the values in the script? The whole scripting framework (core.vbs for example) is based on VP units. I don't see a way to add a conversion function that doesn't break compatibility with all existing tables. Even defining a unit at the beginning of a script won't solve the problem without rewriting the complete framework.

 

How about other way around? Default is assumed VP units unless otherwise defined in script? So existing scripts wouldn't have to change.

 

 

That would be an option. Any volunteers to tackle the core scripts? This is the stuff that nobody really seems to understand in detail anymore.

 

 

I have to jump in here. 

 

A week ago or so i talked to CK that i build my next table in mm/metric system in hope to get better physics with the ball. Until now i always build in scale 1:1.85.

 

 

I think this hole idea to convert vpu to mm goes in the wrong direction.

 

So just for a reminder... we still don´t know exactly what a vp unit is... The 0.54mm = 1vpu is somehow old, back in time (VP8) where the ball standard defintion was 50 and the ball not 3d.

 

My idea was to simply use a metric system for a table without keep care of vp units. So the ball diameter is 27mm (or 1 1/16inch) instead of 50 and look how it does affect the hole table.

 

On the other hand cinema 4d takes the measurements how they are already in vp, so lets say a wall is 60 units high in vp >>> C4d 60mm (without changing something in the import). Maybe some blender/maya or whatever user can take a look at it too.

 

 

I found the old thread where noah brouhgt that up...

 

https://www.vpforums...?showtopic=2762

 

 

EDIT: When i build in mm the table gets smaller, i dont know if this affects shading/render stuff...

Edited by Knorr, 13 June 2019 - 03:56 PM.

[BorgDog]

interesting approach knorr.  I'm interested in how this effects vp physics.

[fuzzel]

I have to jump in here. 

 

 

A week ago or so i talked to CK that i build my next table in mm/metric system in hope to get better physics with the ball. Until now i always build in scale 1:1.85.

 

 

I think this hole idea to convert vpu to mm goes in the wrong direction.

 

So just for a reminder... we still don´t know exactly what a vp unit is... The 0.54mm = 1vpu is somehow old, back in time (VP8) where the ball standard defintion was 50 and the ball not 3d.

 

My idea was to simply use a metric system for a table without keep care of vp units. So the ball diameter is 27mm (or 1 1/16inch) instead of 50 and look how it does affect the hole table.

 

On the other hand cinema 4d takes the measurements how they are already in vp, so lets say a wall is 60 units high in vp >>> C4d 60mm (without changing something in the import). Maybe some blender/maya or whatever user can take a look at it too.

 

 

I found the old thread where noah brouhgt that up...

 

https://www.vpforums...?showtopic=2762

 

 

EDIT: When i build in mm the table gets smaller, i dont know if this affects shading/render stuff...

 

For Blender it's the same: 100 vpu are 100mm or 79.33'. So if you would use it 1:1 it means that a length of a playfield of 2162 vpu would be 2.162 meters or 180.17'

[cyberpez]

 

2 requests...  Would it be possible to make flippers collidable non-collidable via the script?  Second..  I love exporting the table to obj to check the placement of things..  could there be an option to export collidable objects only? (even if hidden)  Also maybe an option to export flashers, even if just a big square would be great....  Thanks!!

 

As for the first one: Isn't it possible to simply use the flipper elements 'Enabled' property? That should work IMHO..

 

 

Yes, sorta..  I was working on a mod to KK, a normal version with how it is now and an option in the script to swap in the VUK and Drop targets..  that works...  But there is also a version with the long (King Sized) flippers in place of the normal flippers.  Currently not able to make the swap via the script, you would have to manually change the collidable via the editor like you mentioned.  

 

If it's not possible, then doing it manually will be how it works.

[gtxjoe]

This test table has two right flippers for testing physics. I am not on PC to see if Roth Baier is disabling one flipper on the fly or if they are simply both collidable.

https://vpinball.com...ics-test-table/

Edited by gtxjoe, 13 June 2019 - 07:56 PM.