834 replies to this topic

[Arcade4]

so anyway, just thought i'd mention that its almost Feb... LOL

Funny. 

I check this thread daily just in case it gets released.

[freneticamnesic]

My body is ready

[BananaBoat]

so too are my index fingers, i've been stretching them in anticipation....

[BigBoss]

 

Very nice, will also be useful for tables with shaker motor effects, like Earthshaker for example.

Well it shouldn't. Because on a real table, shaker motors do not affect the ball *at all* nor do they give any appearance of the table shaking. It's an effect you feel in your hands (and feet) only. Has zero impact on game play.
 

 
*really*...then why did they do that for just a feeling, I don't think so and have played many a real game with this feature, sure the tilt feature needs to be less or even disabled during a shaker effect, though that is all doable and is done on real machines and virtual recreations, it just basic physics 101, it has an effect on the ball.

No. It is a force feedback effect just like a subwoofer upgrade. It's great to have. I have 15 of my 30 real pinballs in my house with shaker motors added. It's a big enhancement to the game. Having the machine shake when you hit the attack from Mars saucer for example. But it does not move the ball and it does not move the tilt. The shaker is so fast that any motion is instantly counteracted. It has a net no impact on game play. This is common knowledge. Only in the vp world is it even considered that a shaker might impact the ball movement. It absolutely does not happen in real life. Not at all.

The road show shaker is always known to be exceptionally too strong. It shakes the glass and can vibrate the machine on its legs in an unpleasant way. It's pretty easy to solve this. When I owned road show I toned it down considerably by adjusting the motor weights. But even then it does not move the ball around when playing the game. The shaker motor is nothing like nudging the table.

Edited by BigBoss, 29 January 2015 - 06:14 AM.

[Shockman]

The shaker is so fast that any motion is instantly counteracted.

 

 

Even if it was slow it would be counteracted, but it is that motion we are talking about.

 

At 9:00 (right after the machine yells 'earth shaker!') the effect on the table can be seen. So can the effect this has on the ball.

 

You can see table movement from that point until the game has one ball back in play, and that the force is lower than the strong force when the balls are captured and one in the shooter lane near the end of the shake. That ball is slapped around and knocked a few inches up the lane from this shake.

 

It's true that during balls in play this effect is toned down and though you can still see the rails shaking you don't see an impact on the ball motion. but this is not going to happen with a ball on an element other than the floor and it not be impacted from it. 

 

Also someone might want to make a VP table where the more violent type shaking is occurring at some point during a ball in play.  

Edited by user, 29 January 2015 - 01:54 PM.

[The Loafer]

On both my real stern Tron Legacy and Star Trek, I have a shaker motor installed and for a while, had it set to whatever they call the strongest setting. Both of them have decent support for the shaker motor and I can attest I have never, ever seen the ball move differently because of a shaker motor effect. This doesn't mean it can't happen, maybe as was stated above in some instance if the ball is about to hit an object and at the same time the shaker kicks in... But I have never seen it. I think have have set them down to medium or moderate now because the effect was so strong I was worried stuff would become loose after a while, but never noticed any effect at all.

As it is i won't say it doesn't happen but I think everyone needs to look at this from a pinball designer point of view as I really don't think the designers intent was to put the shakers in their game to add ball randomness, rather it was more for feedback "effect" to up the immersion factor. At least that is my belief anyway.

For vp, I would say the best of both worlds should be considered, via an option that enables on/off for the shaker effects to have an effect on the ball. Then, everyone is happy.

[Shockman]

I don't think there was any intent to effect gameplay either. Infact I think the practice was to have level of motion that would not effect gameplay.

 

The two worlds being considered here is not one that has random ball movement and one that doesn't. It's the worlds of VP in a cabinet and VP on a desktop. Emulation through hardware and emulation through simulation.

 

A shaker motor on a VP cabinet can not do it's job because inside the cabinet is the same VP. You can have it shake like a paint shaker and the simulation is not going to be effected.

 

 

the effect was so strong I was worried stuff would become loose after a while, but never noticed any effect at all.

 

An oxymoron.

 

Perhaps desktop users need a way to shake without actually shaking the hardware AND cabinet users with shaker motors need a way to nudge without actually nudging.

 

Maybe Pauls' long held belief that the nudge and shake should be independent functions IS the key to the best of both worlds.

 

The fact that anything is subtle is never evidence of nonexistence. 

[Shockman]

PA overdoes the effect.

https://www.youtube....RG_rbOJZU#t=123

[chepas]

PA overdoes the effect.

https://www.youtube....RG_rbOJZU#t=123

 

That is just too painful to watch! Unrealistic nudge + Shaker = Motion sickness.

[ClarkKent]

Just a little sideshow - I think on this video you can see how slow and gentle the ball moves on a real pinball machine. On many VP tables the ball is extremly fast, but maybe that will be better in VP...

[mukuste]

Just a little sideshow - I think on this video you can see how slow and gentle the ball moves on a real pinball machine. On many VP tables the ball is extremly fast, but maybe that will be better in VP...

I agree but I think it's also an issue of table tuning rather than the engine itself. I hope that the new elasticity falloff parameters in particular will enable this kind of more deliberate pace, but table authors need to tweak this, it won't be automatic.

[ClarkKent]

 

Just a little sideshow - I think on this video you can see how slow and gentle the ball moves on a real pinball machine. On many VP tables the ball is extremly fast, but maybe that will be better in VP...

I agree but I think it's also an issue of table tuning rather than the engine itself. I hope that the new elasticity falloff parameters in particular will enable this kind of more deliberate pace, but table authors need to tweak this, it won't be automatic.

 

 

I know, I know. I just wanted to post this video as it's a really good example for a nice rolling ball...

 

What I hope is that the physics will improve the ball behavior at magnets and kickers. At the moment it just snaps in. No gentle animation for that at the moment.

Edited by ClarkKent, 29 January 2015 - 07:43 PM.

[mr2buds]

Not sure if anybody has already mentioned this, but would it be feasible to pass through the back glass type when launching visual pinball, eg a parameter like -backglass, then to launch the table use “vpinball.exe -table tablename -backglass b2s” on VP10.

 

This way a generic table script could be written, something like this (excuse any syntax errors) :-

Set Arguments = WScript.Arguments.Named
Backglass = Arguments.Item("Backglass")

Select Backglass
    Case “UVP”
       Set Controller = CreateObject("UltraVP.BackglassServ")
    Case “B2S”
       Set Controller = CreateObject("B2S.Server")
    Case Else  
       Set Controller = CreateObject("VPinMAME.Controller")
End Select

Then no more editing table scripts, well at least until the next Backglass technology is designed :-)

Edited by mr2buds, 29 January 2015 - 08:47 PM.

[toxie]

one could just place something like this into the core vbs files and read from there.

[toxie]

just in case somebody misses the beta thread: http://www.vpforums....showtopic=30418