100 replies to this topic

[Fusionwerks]

As much as I would love to see an Alice table using the original John Tenniel art, I'm still keen on seeing your Disney-based version completed. When that comes about, what would you think about allowing me to mod the game with Tenniel art replacing yours?  I'm not much of a coder, but I can find my way around graphics pretty well.

 

If this is toe-treading, I apologize. So far, I have only produced a graphics mod of LOST IN SPACE (Retro), but this game sounds like a second chance to contribute something -- naturally I would only do so with your blessing.

 I have no problem with that, considering I'm just riding the coat-tails of JP by using his base script. I have changed a LOT of it, but it is still done with his fundamentals.

I love the idea of using John Tenniel art, and considered it at one point, but since this table was a request from my wife, it had to be the Disney 1951 version, Not to mention the over abundance of art that was available.

That being said, I don't require a trade to give my blessing, but would you be interested in doing the art for this table? I could share with you my vision (and resources), and let you run from there. I have a ton of stuff I have pulled from the web already, but I haven't even started looking into the art on the table (besides the centerpiece)

[dan_shane]

That being said, I don't require a trade to give my blessing, but would you be interested in doing the art for this table? I could share with you my vision (and resources), and let you run from there. I have a ton of stuff I have pulled from the web already, but I haven't even started looking into the art on the table (besides the centerpiece)

 

 

 

 

I'm happy to assist with the graphics as I find the time. I have no real experience with 3D toys (I only applied a clumsy skin to the Jupiter 2 on LIS), but I can manage flat playfield and plastics okay.

[MGForums]

I just use two switches at each end of orbit with a variable for ball direction, multiple balls on playfield can and will effect this though.

 

Dim Direction

 

Sub Left1_Hit

      Direction=0

End Sub

 

Sub Left2_Hit

      If Direction=1 Then Loops(Direction) End If

End Sub

 

Sub Right1_Hit

     Direction=1

End Sub

 

Sub Right2_Hit

     If Direction=0 Then Loops(Direction) End If

End Sub

 

Sub Loops(Direction)

   Select Case Direction

        Case 0

        Left loop made

        Case 1

        Right loop made

   End Select

End Sub

Edited by MGForums, 05 October 2023 - 09:43 PM.

[Fusionwerks]

I just use two switches at each end of orbit with a variable for ball direction, multiple balls on playfield can and will effect this though.
 
Dim Direction
 
Sub Left1_Hit
      Direction=0
End Sub
 
Sub Left2_Hit
      If Direction=1 Then Loops(Direction) End If
End Sub
 
Sub Right1_Hit
     Direction=1
End Sub
 
Sub Right2_Hit
     If Direction=0 Then Loops(Direction) End If
End Sub
 
Sub Loops(Direction)
   Select Case Direction
        Case 0
        Left loop made
        Case 1
        Right loop made
   End Select
End Sub

Thank you for this. It's funny that you brought this up because I have put that issue on the back burner, and it just made it's way back to the top of my to-do list again tonight. I will look at it again this weekend. I have been busy working on the upper playfield for the past week.

[Fusionwerks]

So I have a few "stupid" questions today. Actually a few things that I just cant get an understanding of and need a basic, layman's term explanation, and maybe example.

1. What is depth bias. what does it do, where do you use it, and for what purpose?

2. On lights, there seems to me to be 3 different "height" adjustments. 1 - Halo height, 2 - z location, and 3 - surface. what combination is correct to use? In other words if I have an upper playfield, do I put the light on the "floor" object and leave the z to zero, or leave the surface blank, and adjust the z location?

3. Can anyone explain to me the "new" animate features and functions of vpx8. maybe some examples?

[kiwi]

1:VP automatically sorts objects when rendering, but there may be situations where it doesn't do this correctly,

for example you may have objects under a clear ramp that are not visible,

the Bias modifies the Z position of the object, not physically but only with regards to the order,

the Bias can have positive or negative values, in case you want to raise the objects under the ramp or lower the ramp.

 

2:I'm not sure, it seems to me that the location z has to do with the new function of the shadow cone generated by the passing of the ball.

 

3:What functions?

[wiesshund]

 

2. On lights, there seems to me to be 3 different "height" adjustments. 1 - Halo height, 2 - z location, and 3 - surface. what combination is correct to use? In other words if I have an upper playfield, do I put the light on the "floor" object and leave the z to zero, or leave the surface blank, and adjust the z location?

 

1 Hight of light corona

 

2 vertical position of light bulb if shown

 

3 wall surface to affix lamp to if not playfield surface, this is how you put a lamp on an upper or lower playfield etc

[Fusionwerks]

 

3:What functions?

well... I'm not really sure. JP's new releases like Transformers, IJ, and Ghostbusters, he says in his update description that he "animated objects using internal VPX8 animate"

 

If I search the script in these tables I only see animate referred to in regards to the flippers. I was thinking maybe this new internal VPX8 replaced using timers and script math to move objects.

[kiwi]

 

 

3:What functions?

well... I'm not really sure. JP's new releases like Transformers, IJ, and Ghostbusters, he says in his update description that he "animated objects using internal VPX8 animate"

 

If I search the script in these tables I only see animate referred to in regards to the flippers. I was thinking maybe this new internal VPX8 replaced using timers and script math to move objects.

 

Exactly this,

if you open the CommandReference.txt file in the Changelog explanation it says about the elements that support internal animation.

 

The form of the subroutine is this:

Sub, object name and _Animate( )

 

Example to animate a trigger or target

Sub Trigger001_Animate( )
Trigger001.CurrentAnimOffset = Trigger3D.TransZ
End Sub

 

[jpsalas]

Yes, I animate mostly the flippers on all the tables, as I use a top with a better shape and images. But on some other tables there are more objects being animated that way, like gates, spinners, diverters. This way I can removed the realtime timer, but on some animations you still need timers, like the ball rolling sound, or some animations.

[Fusionwerks]

Ok, I believe I understand now. I have always piggybacked on JP's scripting and basic table elements were already in place when I start building a table. Things like realtimetimer, rollingtimer etc, so I never saw the behind the scenes of what did what. That being said, Correct me if I'm wrong. In the past, most spinners and gates used to rely on a physical timer (with an interval) to make it actually move. Now VPX8 does this internally without the need for the timer if you use the _animate call? So for example, looking at the command reference in primitive animate methods, it asks for a frame rate "speed". Is this essentially the same as the interval on the timers?

[kiwi]

A timer does things at regular intervals (interval), until it is turned off.

 

Realtimemers and rollingtimers, the interval of these timers determines how often the subroutine is updated,

the interval is usually low around 10 milliseconds,

in the case of moving an object, a high interval causes a non-smooth jerky movement,

basically like watching an old movie with a few frames per second.

 

 

So for example, looking at the command reference in primitive animate methods, it asks for a frame rate "speed". Is this essentially the same as the interval on the timers?

This is the animated sequence made with 3D objects, each frame must have a 3D object with the same number of triangles,

for example you could have a walking mannequin, the speed regulates the speed of the frames i.e. the walking speed,

surely there is an internal timer that regulates the speed.

 

 

most spinners and gates used to rely on a physical timer (with an interval) to make it actually move. Now VPX8 does this internally without the need for the timer if you use the _animate call?

Yes,

Sub Spinner001_Animate( )
Spinner001.CurrentAngle = Spinner3D.RotY
End Sub

 

[Fusionwerks]

Just wanted to post an update on the upper playfield. I have all the triggers working correctly to resize the ball. The loop on the right shrinks the ball, and the loop to the left grows it. When the ball is the smallest, the mouth of the doorknob moves down (pictured in down position) and you can lock the ball for multiball. I'm finding that it is harder than I expected. I will have to get some feedback when I move to testing. There are 4 stand up targets, and as of right now I'm thinking about making it the mystery, since the ball release on the far left side behind the gate has no other function besides putting the ball on the upper playfield. Basically, light the 4 lights, the mystery is lit, and the gate becomes 2 way. This will free up some space on the lower scoop where the mystery currently is. It will also take the mystery light off the table and make it a little less crowded. It will also keep the code a little less twitchy since the upper playfield will not be accessible during modes or multiball, whereas the scoop is, and sometimes the mystery gets lost in the "action".

anyway that's what's up for now

Edited by Fusionwerks, 10 October 2023 - 12:40 AM.

[Fusionwerks]

Quick question. Are light sequencers resources hungry? I was thinking of trying something for a mode, but it would require 6 light sequencers to be running at the same time. Each one would only control a single light. It is basically just to modulate the lights color. Just want to know b4 I try to re-code some stuff and find out it bogs the table down.

[wiesshund]

not sure but i think to alter the color, and only 6 lights, a timer may be easier?

[Fusionwerks]

I found some really nice 3d models of the Cheshire cat, Mad Hatter, and the Caterpillar, but they are all .stl files and they are separated into about 10 pieces each for 3d printing. They are also like 1/2 million polys total per model, so I am laboring to remove a lot of geometry and connect them together so i can remesh them, reduce the poly count, and bake a high poly normal map on the low poly model. It sucks because the parts are all sharing the same origin point, so I also have to get them rotated and aligned right. Its gonna take a lot of work, but i really want them.

Edited by Fusionwerks, 14 October 2023 - 02:34 AM.

[Fusionwerks]

I think I have finally hit my flow on dealing with these 3d models. I am making slow progress, but I'm learning something new and faster every session. I'm pretty happy with the results so far. This is the high poly model of the caterpillar so far.

 

Edited by Fusionwerks, 15 October 2023 - 02:56 AM.

[Fusionwerks]

So I contacted the original creator of the 3d models, and he is going to work with me on getting them "put back together" by making them fully manifold again without embedded faces. It was just taking me way too long, and I wasn't happy with the results.
I have switched gears for a while and started looking at the lighting again. Did I mention how much I hate the lighting? I look at a lot of tables, and I see what I like, but it's either rendered out in blender, or they have crazy scripting stuff going on. Neither of which I want to deal with. (Mostly because I don't know how) I'm sure there will be follow up questions once I get frustrated again.
I am almost ready to hand this over to some people to test. Mostly for functionality, but I also need to get feedback on difficulty,(because I suck) and I want some suggestions on possible changes before I attempt the artwork.
I need to start making my list of people to ask for help on stuff. DOF, FlexDMD, and testing.
Anyway, so far so good, just chugging along slowly.

Edited by Fusionwerks, 23 October 2023 - 02:13 AM.

[wiesshund]

I am not terribly good at lighting either.

 

Flashers can be your friend. you can sort of "bake in" lighting, by drawing a lightmap.

 

pure black is unlit, pure white is fully lit

So you are basically drawing a shadow mask

 

apply texture to flasher, twice, and enable additive

then just lay the playfield sized flasher on the playfield, adjust flasher as needed (amount, opacity)

 

One table, i think alien warrior? i got fed up with lighting and just lit the entire table with a flasher.

 

You can also hang some overhead lighting

make a big giant rectangular lamp, set it pretty bright and set it as halo

set it about 800 units high

 

It wont do any effects, it is too high obviously, but what it will do is cast an even ambient light over the playfield.
 

 

Play around, invent stuff
Sometimes, it actually works

[Fusionwerks]

Does anyone know if there is a line in the script that tells me when the plunger is pulled all the way back? In other word if I wanted to light a light, when (and only when) the plunger is pulled back to its farthest position.