111 replies to this topic

[Thalamus]

Sure. Demand that Bigus1 start to give credits where credits is due and don't fucking insult me by actually saying the opposite without even verifying your post . You should know by now, with the amount of work I've put into this community that I don't normally attack a guy without reason. If you decides to defend Bigus1, then please, look at what he says and does before you post that shit at https://www.vpforums...=46979&p=480209 - that really pisses me off.

[mrjcrane]

I'd like to think mothers are ok with their kids taking an interest in this VP hobby. So, it is up to us to make it fun and clean for them and for moms to be ok with what we are doing here. But, when we are in states of conflict with strong language; it's not the best place for kids to watch us adults publicly air disputes. That can and should be handled privately in my opinion if we have admins and moderators we probably have rules and guidelines on conduct and/or discipline..

 

Proposed Middle Ground for Content in "New Table Release Announcement" Threads:

 

1) Say thanks to Developers & Contributors for any and all efforts spent to make any tables improved or publicly available (prior and current contributors). I appreciate all the developers.

2) Revise or moderate content for "table release threads" to be constructive. Ex. Say thanks for the table, I found a bug, I've fixed a bug, I added a feature, I have an idea to help you and so on.

3) Move our disputing elsewhere please into private messages, solve them privately or we can create a thread specifically for "complaints and disputes".

4) Enhance our table script change log for tables giving credit, recording mod deviation points, giving credit where known or where due. The VPW released tables are making a good effort in the table scripts with the "Change Log" section (Explaining options and giving credit to contributors).

 

So for now, I will say thanks to Bigus (and all prior contributors both known and unknown). Let's take a mulligan and restart this thread. Bigus, I like the table lighting on this table, things look good and the ball moves well, thanks.

Edited by mrjcrane, 11 June 2021 - 09:16 PM.

[Noah Fentz]

Sure. Demand that Bigus1 start to give credits where credits is due and don't fucking insult me by actually saying the opposite without even verifying your post . You should know by now, with the amount of work I've put into this community that I don't normally attack a guy without reason. If you decides to defend Bigus1, then please, look at what he says and does before you post that shit at https://www.vpforums...=46979&p=480209 - that really pisses me off.

Why attack? TALK to the guy. Treat him like a human being, reach out and discuss it.

My statement was blanket, not targeted at you, and exactly what's on my mind regarding the situation as a whole. Good gawd! We're adults!

As for the language, I'm usually the first to call it out. Kinda accentuates the point right now. This will be getting split off and placed in a more appropriate area before to long. It's a needed discussion, imo.

[TerryRed]

Well... let's also not forget where MANY of the VPX tables have been converted from or have used resources from. Lots and lots of FP tables that never originated from a VP version. Guys like Rom, GLXB, Highlander, Popotte and many more made recreations of tables that were used for a complete VPX conversion or just their resources. Sadly I don't see those guys getting mention often on many VPX table credits.

 

More than a few times when I've modded a table or added DOF to a VPX or FP table, I would see no mention of the original FP table creators or other contributors. I would go out of my way to add those guys in the table script or DMD,etc as that should be the FIRST thing to be checked when a table is uploaded. Giving credits on the download page is a given as well.... but it should also be in the table itself. I was honestly surprised at how often this happened.

 

No one's contributions should be set aside and not considered important. If it was good enough for you to use, or to ask for help... it's good enough for them to be part of that table from that point on.

 

I also don't agree with take-me backs of a table that was free to mod. If there are serious legal reasons / conflict with a job,etc... then sure (though you can still let someone else release it on your behalf with a different alias, etc).

 

It's why I've made a declaration that anything I mod and release... stays released, and stays on the sites I posted them on. I'm not going to work on something for weeks / months just to have someone change their mind later on and no longer want mods of their table anywhere because they have a tantrum or drama of some sort. I find it amazing that someone has no issue downloading tables from specific sites... but thinks their work is too precious to make available on those same sites.

 

 

I guess I'm lucky in that I'm doing stuff no one else is doing (or knows how to do), and anyone trying to mod my more recent releases would be lost trying to figure out how it all works.

Edited by TerryRed, 11 June 2021 - 10:17 PM.

[Aubrel]

I come from the arcade community and I'm still really surprised that these tables are still nearly available only on a few forum.

This is internet, for years everything you post, share, all the work you do is usually mirored everywhere without any permission and it's ok for everybody..

Also I think we can never really be an "autor" of a visual pinball table, most of them are recreations of real tables, it uses visual pinball, mame, dumps, arts, scans, pictures ressources, datasheets, videos,... and all of them are always the work of some other people, hundreds of people in fact

Even for an original table, it's nearly the same: the arts are most often taken for something, and in any case it still uses softwares, parts of code, techniques,...  made by some other people.

 

BTW, modding nearly every tables like that and putting your own name in its description, with always a 3 words changelog (lights, lighting, playfield) is not good.

Also for most of them I didn't really saw what has been improved: the lights are often not really better, the playfield is nearly the same or the very same, most of the bugs or issues are still here... So it would really need a true changelog because it's not clear and when we just try these mods a few minutes the improvements are not always really visibles (I tried only 10 of these mods to be true, so probably I had no luck with them...)

Also when the "autor" (ie: the guy who worked the most to build the table modded) asks for a remove I don't understand why it's not removed.

 

I'm sure bigus spent a lot of time to mod all these tables and I respect his work, but probably less mods but more improvements and better quality with a real changelog and a real permission would be better for the next ones?

And that way it would also avoid such issues and drama

[hauntfreaks]

@TerryRed ..... I used a few FP tables long ago, but I did have Popotte's (I think that was his name) carte blanche, but that was years ago.... I don't know if carte blanche has a time limit...

@Aubrel.... whole different world, a WAY WAY different world.... roms are roms are roms.... these are hand built from scratch, not just themes for frontends, I'm also part of that side of things in the arcade world and wow its kook central over there....LOL

[bigus1]

Aubrel, unlike you obviously, I've had to develop my skills as I go. I do the best I can with each table and I update as my knowledge expands. You do one mod of one of my mods and then you feel you can generalize my work based on one or a few tables. My mods aren't mostly riddled with errors as you claim, and your idea of a scratch build is laughable. Plus I don't recall being asked, so save your comments about permissions.

I'm happy that you want to continue to evolve tables such as Barb Wire and Bonebusters that are functionally incomplete, but I don't deserve your ridicule for taking a table as far as I can despite it not being "perfect".

[Milos]

As someone completely independent in this topic, I can say that I really like your mods.

 

I am quite sure that most of those discussions would stop if you give more information about what you have really changed. As far as I can see, appreciation for original authors is always there so posting changelog should take weapons from your critics.

[BobAlbright]

As someone completely independent in this topic, I can say that I really like your mods.

 

I am quite sure that most of those discussions would stop if you give more information about what you have really changed. As far as I can see, appreciation for original authors is always there so posting changelog should take weapons from your critics.

 

As someone completely independent in this topic, I can say that I really like your mods.

 

I am quite sure that most of those discussions would stop if you give more information about what you have really changed. As far as I can see, appreciation for original authors is always there so posting changelog should take weapons from your critics.

 

 

i really like his mods too. In most cases, his mods replace whatever version I had been using

[Aubrel]

You do one mod of one of my mods and then you feel you can generalize my work based on one or a few tables.

....

Plus I don't recall being asked, so save your comments about permissions.

So far I don't recall having done any mod of your tables.

It's quite easy to remember because at this time I released only 2 mods

- WaterWorld : I asked and got the approval of Goldchicco

- Big House : I didn't ask for this one because Rascal said "yes, without approval"

BarbWire is a full rebuild, I would have been pleased to start from your one and mod it but your table dimensions were too wrong.

BTW your version and the others ones before helped a lot for sure, I took some elements and most of the code in the previous versions (not only your one), so I can't say it's only my own work, and I didn't: I gave you and others credits for that.

But I didn't had to ask you anything because I didn't mod your table at all, but if I had done it I would have asked you.

 

So yes, I did a lot less than you and a lot less than any other table autor here. But as far as I know this is not a competition lol

Also I don't plan to work on tables for very long, I'm only passing through quickly

But as said I respect your work. No offence at all, I just said it would be better (for users and other autors too) to give a true changelog and also better to avoid such drama like this one and the previous ones too...

Edited by Aubrel, 14 June 2021 - 01:15 PM.

[bigus1]

This is from your table post -  "I wanted first to make a mod of the previous vpx version of this table but I finally rebuilt it from scratch."

I'm happy that you've improved the table as I said, but it's got all the graphics that I produced from collected photos (which I still have) plus insert lights painstakingly shaped by me and with my unique settings. I'm the only one that sets a halo height of -0.03. I know my work. I did a full rebuild of Addams Family, but it certainly wasn't from scratch. Anyway, I'll believe that you had no ill intentions there, but your sweeping criticism of my work was uncalled for and unnecessary, and largely untrue.

[Aubrel]

i took most of your insert hallo dimensions yes, but I think there isn't anymore any visual taken from your table in the last version.

All the arts have been rebuilt by myself using pictures taken from the web, I still have the full folder too

Only the playfield was not made by me. (I did a lot of work on it) but it wasn't made by you neither.

 

Edit: But again, it's not a war, If your are not happy with my table, just ask for a remove and for me it's not a problem

Edit2: the "loud speaker" image was taken from your table

So because of that it's a mod for you and not a rebuild??

Edited by Aubrel, 14 June 2021 - 02:53 PM.

[bigus1]

Oh yes I did make the playfield and that's no secret. And all the rest, as far as I can see. I took hours shaping just those Missile lights. You did a nice job and you got it working properly and that's great, but it's a mod. I'm all for it and you didn't need to ask, and I don't want war either, so don't call my work crap and we'll be good

[Aubrel]

Ok so if building a table from a blanc one in vpx, building all the ramps, all the walls, putting all the elements, adding most of the lights excepting the playfield ones, rewritting nearly all the sound part of the script, fixing the script to get a working table and gameplay, redrawing all the arts from web pictures excepting the playfield and a speaker,...etc... is for you a mod: it's OK for me but in that case what are you doing here and in all the other mod you released excepting puting your name on all these tables??

 

Also about the playfield I didn't know you did it because it was already in the Future Pinball table a long time before your vpx one.

[bigus1]

Look, all the versions are here for anyone to see, and I made that playfield.  i know exactly where you've edited it. I know what you've done. And what I'm doing is the same thing as you. It depends on the table as to how involved it is, but I've done all the things on your list and more.

[Aubrel]

OK nice... so in fact your mods are all full rebuilds and more... Ok that's fine for me.

Also you did the playfield for this table before 2016: http://www.pinsimdb....10312-barb_wire

That's nice!!

 

It's enough for me I stop here. bye

[bigus1]

Just look at the holes.

[Aubrel]

lol you said you made the playfield but in fact you just added the holes??

 

feel free to change a light intensity somewhere in my table and call it "BIGUS MOD"  in you want, I don't care lol

 

Edit: Of course it was a joke, but I update this post because he is stupid enough to do it lol

=> So NO you are NOT and WILL NEVER BE ALLOWED to touch any of my releases nor anything that I worked on.

Edited by Aubrel, 15 June 2021 - 04:55 PM.

[bigus1]

You're full of shit mate. Here's my table listing, read the comments -  https://www.vpforums...&showfile=14436

You're not the first arsehole (or group of arseholes) to pull this stunt.

[chepas]

i really like his mods too. In most cases, his mods replace whatever version I had been using

 

Keep in mind none of this is bad for the end user (downloader). As long as you're getting updated games all the time then you will say carry on.

Edited by chepas, 15 June 2021 - 09:58 AM.