133 replies to this topic

[roar]

I feel so dumb... this was all working fine... irks me that I can't figure this out.

 

I did try disabling DPI in compatibility settings, I tried installing MSI Afterburner but I have no idea what to do with that tool... I just bumped all the sliders up a notch or two with hopes that would stop it from powering down... then I played a game and it stayed stutter free for the ahilw, like 3 or 4 minutes and now the stutter is back. I am going to nuke this install and go back to Windows 7... as soon as I can find a USB key big enough to hold the image, no cd rom in this PC and I blew away my windows usb install when I moved to Windows 10.

[TerryRed]

Don't feel bad...this is my life as a tech.  Going through the grind to figure things out.

 

 

Just please try to do just VPX with no B2S / DOF install and see how that goes.  If I remember...all my VPX, VP9, PM5 was fine and had very little stutter when in windowed full screen mode BEFORE I installed B2S and DOF. 

 

After that, was when everything started to stutter for VPX, VP9 PM5.  Then going exclusive full screen (with my above settings) for VPX fixed the issues for VPX.

 

 

Keep it VERY simple. Just VPX, no PBX either!  Try, one step at a time....and test alot of tables. Once you are confident its good...move to the next step. 

 

Try other games as well to be absolutely sure if this is just a VP issue.

 

 

Good luck!

[roar]

On it Terry!
 
No USB in sight and no downgrade to Windows 7 from 10 so I'm starting with a brand new Windows 10 install We will see how it goes and ya, one step at a time, looking for the VPX installer now After I get some GeForce drivers on here first, only one screen works until I have those
 
I am many years past my tech support days and don't miss them

Edit:

New windows installed
Installed new GeForce Drivers, drives only, no bloat
Copied the files from the VPX exe only folder into new directory on C:
Unblock all dll's and set exe to run as administrator
Installed VPinMAME, unblock and set as run as administrator
Updated PinDMD.dll to latest and unblocked
Copied single AFM table over to tables directory
Added afm_113b to rom directory
Updated script to run VBS controller rather than B2S
Matched VPX settings to Terry's

Stutter present immediately!

No b2s
No bloat
Fresh install!
Forgot to add exception for VPX in nvidia settings, but last I checked the global settings matched the desired vsync setting.

Edited by roar, 18 September 2016 - 04:05 AM.

[CaptFlam]

Did you disable DPI setting this time ?

[roar]

Did you disable DPI setting this time ?

I did indeed.

[CaptFlam]

I changed my global nvidia settings as follows. No special settings for pbx or vpx.

 

Multi-Frame Sampled AA (MFAA): ON 

Antialiasing FXAA - ON
Multi-Display/Mixed -GPU acceleration: Single Display Performance Mode
Power Managment Mode: Prefer Maximum Performance
Texturefiltering - Quality - Maximum Performance
Shader Cache: ON 
Anisotropic Filtering: 16x

 

Together with no compatibility setting for pbx and vp it works fine so far.

However pinballx behaves a bit "faster" but as long as the tables work thats fine for me

[TerryRed]

Are you using the newest VPX beta 2? Try that out.

 

Is your playfield screen the "number 1" screen in nvidia control panel? Make sure that it is.  Also try unplugging your second screen and 3rd (if you have one), and run VPX only with that playfield screen.

 

Try playing other PC games like PFX2 if you have it, Future Pinball (if you play that), etc to see if they are running crappy. We need to see if this is system wide or just VP.

 

You wouldn't have another video card to test with would you?

[TerryRed]

....also double check that you are running in 60hz. Your TV should have an "info" button that may display this. Your VPX should be running in 1920x1080 60hz, exclusive full screen. Your nvidia control panel resolution should also be in 1920x1080 60hz.

 

Check your nvidia control panel, "Adjust Desktop Colour Settings". Make sure "content type reported to display" is set to "Desktop Programs".

 

Is your TV in a proper "PC Mode" or "Game Mode" to disable any extra processing which can cause lag from frame interpolation. 

 

 

 

These are standard settings that should be done on a gaming PC.

Edited by TerryRed, 18 September 2016 - 08:03 PM.

[roar]

Are you using the newest VPX beta 2? Try that out.

 

Yes! Put that on today

 

Is your playfield screen the "number 1" screen in nvidia control panel? Make sure that it is.  Also try unplugging your second screen and 3rd (if you have one), and run VPX only with that playfield screen.

 

It is indeed Number one and it I just finished playing some with it as the only monitor plugged in. Played really great for a couple of minutes, maybe even 5-10 this time before it started stuttering. Flipped over to MM and that stuttered out of the gate... over heating maybe? How do I check the temperature of my Video Card?

 

Edit: Installed that MSI Afterburner software you recommended previously... just played MM again, game starts out fine, the GPU and Mem Clock rise as soon as VPX starts as do the Voltage and temperature, but they both stabilize and then still very consistent, no spikes... the temperature did rise to about 46 degrees and is now back down to 37 degrees, no idea if that is normal or ideal to be honest. But the game didn't stay stutter free for any more than 60 seconds. Just played for 10 minutes with my CPU at 63 degrees... no stutter... was this my bloody problem the whole time?????

 

Edit 2: Not sure what a safe operating temperature for my CPU is but I think I may have had something jamming my fan on my CPU... it is now hovering around 50 degrees but when I start a table on VPX it jumps to 59. 

 

Try playing other PC games like PFX2 if you have it, Future Pinball (if you play that), etc to see if they are running crappy. We need to see if this is system wide or just VP.

 

PFX2 Plays like a dream for as long as I want to... I can have VPX stuttering, jump out of that and right into PFX2 and it plays fine. I don't have FP installed, but I think I should try that.

 

You wouldn't have another video card to test with would you?

 

I wish... this PC is purpose built to play VPX, I'm not a PC gamer, haven't been for years and years and this Video Card is coming up on a year old now too so no way I can take it back, though I will gladly punt it into the lake if I find out it is the problem

 

....also double check that you are running in 60hz. Your TV should have an "info" button that may display this. Your VPX should be running in 1920x1080 60hz, exclusive full screen. Your nvidia control panel resolution should also be in 1920x1080 60hz.

 

No problem here, whenever I play Full Screen when it resync's it always shows the 1920x1080 60Hz, I've played around with the other Hz and nothing is any better.

 

Check your nvidia control panel, "Adjust Desktop Colour Settings". Make sure "content type reported to display" is set to "Desktop Programs".

 

Just checked this and it was not set to that, it is now.

 

Is your TV in a proper "PC Mode" or "Game Mode" to disable any extra processing which can cause lag from frame interpolation. 

 

It wasn't but it is now.

 

These are standard settings that should be done on a gaming PC.

Edited by roar, 19 September 2016 - 12:44 AM.

[TerryRed]

One more thing not related to stuttering. Check to see what you resolution's colour range is for each of your screens. In nvidia control panel. In the "change resolution", check what your Output Dynamic Range is set to. You only get this option with HDMI usually. DVI, Display Port might not give you this option. If it is "Limited", change it to "Full" and apply.   You should now have much nicer colour on your TV.

 

 

On the rest....

 

I just tried playing Medieval Madness in VPX for about 10 min while monitoring with MSI Afterburner. My settings are all default with my fan set to Auto. You can setup the "monitor" to be separate from the rest of the program with lots of tests to display. You can also have it set to "Always on Top" so you can see what it's doing while playing...just put it on your backglass screen.

 

-my GPU temp stays at around 58-60 degrees Celsius.  The max that most cards would goto before "throttling" (cutting back on power, usage,etc) is normally around 80 degrees Celsius

-my cpu usage was never more than around 50 to 60%. Temps were around 50 degrees Celsius. All 4 cores seemed to be used. I have an i5 2500K...slower than your CPU. (keep in mind your cpu WILL most likely run hotter than mine. The newer CPU chips are known for that. My main PC has an i5 4670K, and it runs hot on a stock cooler. )

-My GPU fan never even turned on. All the Maxwell cards (gtx 900 series) are very power efficient, so its not unusual for your fan to never turn on unless its on a very heavy load.  Since my temps were fairly good the entire time,the fans won't ever kick on. Alot of people freak out when they get these cards at first because they never see the fan turn on. Most of the card manufacturers even put a warning note to tell people not to worry if the fan isn't coming on at first.

-fps were 60 the whole time without a single stutter.

-system seems to not even struggle while playing

 

 

Hope that can give you a base reference.

Edited by TerryRed, 19 September 2016 - 01:54 AM.

[roar]

Thanks for that Terry... just finished playing for about 45 minutes after getting B2S and DOF configured again and everything is running just fine... looks like not running a fan on CPU may cause stuttering in VPX 

 

I've also ordered a new CPU Fan too rather than stock one as I am running at about 60 degrees and would love to see it cooler than that if possible.

 

Onward and upwards!

[TerryRed]

Yah. VPX seems to be more CPU demanding as well as using more cores than the older versions.

 

So are you saying that your CPU motherboard fan wasn't turning on before, but now it is and all seems to be playing good? If so, that would explain why PFX2 would be good since it uses more GPU than anything else, whereas the stuttering on VPX comes from the CPU being over worked in terms of the physics. Newer CPU and GPU will throttle back if they are being worked too hard, over temp,etc..

 

That's why something like MSI Afterburner is very useful on any PC since you can see what your CPU, CPU fan, GPU, GPU Fan, and all temps are. Not all games work the same way.

 

If your CPU is staying around 60 under load, that's not too bad....especially for your generation CPU, which, (like my i5 4670K) uses more adhesive between the "lid" and the chip which results in not as much heat being dissipated. Whereas my older i5 2500K in my pincab has better cooling properties because it uses a thinner layer of adhesive.   This is why some people "de-lid" their cpu's. I wouldn't go that route...  

 

 

Give us an update after extensive testing. Hopefully all is good!

Edited by TerryRed, 19 September 2016 - 03:32 AM.

[Kernel]

On my 3 monitors setup (1800p + 720p + low res monitor for DMD all @60Hz) I have a 750ti 2GB with an intel i5-3470T @ 2.90-3.60GHz (2 cores - 4 threads).

I get about 160FPS with VP 10.2, but I can feel heavy lag on flippers and the ball isn't always very smooth despite of what I set on VP and nvidia CP. Disabling vsync helps with the lag, but the ball stutters like crazy.

I've tried overclocking the GTX750ti with afterburner and I was able to gain about 10fps, but problems remained the same.

 

With VP990 I have a super smooth ball and super responsive gameplay (even without vsync enabled) so I exclude monitor and other related problems.

 

Now I was thinking to upgrade my cfg, but I dont know if it's a CPU or grphics card problem (or both). Where do you think the bottleneck is?

[Drybonz]

Where do you think the bottleneck is?

 

60hz monitor can cause some of that flipper lag, imo.  Also, video card is probably on the low end.

Edited by Drybonz, 20 September 2016 - 10:29 AM.

[Kernel]

With VP990 I have a super smooth ball and super responsive gameplay (even without vsync enabled) so I exclude monitor and other related problems.

[roar]

A follow-up to my stuttering problems... new CPU Fan arrived and installed. My CPU is now down to 32 degrees from 60+ and even higher when the fan on it got stuck. All games running super smooth, my hair is starting to grow back in from ripping it out.

Thanks so much for all the support.

[TerryRed]

A follow-up to my stuttering problems... new CPU Fan arrived and installed. My CPU is now down to 32 degrees from 60+ and even higher when the fan on it got stuck. All games running super smooth, my hair is starting to grow back in from ripping it out.

Thanks so much for all the support.

 

That is awesome man...comes to show that sometimes a "software" symptom may have nothing to do with software at all.   However, I'm sure you learned alot more about PC hardware and PC Gaming, drivers, vsync, etc in the process.

 

Being a tech for over 20 years now, its no wonder I have no hair on the top of my head...  

On my 3 monitors setup (1800p + 720p + low res monitor for DMD all @60Hz) I have a 750ti 2GB with an intel i5-3470T @ 2.90-3.60GHz (2 cores - 4 threads).

I get about 160FPS with VP 10.2, but I can feel heavy lag on flippers and the ball isn't always very smooth despite of what I set on VP and nvidia CP. Disabling vsync helps with the lag, but the ball stutters like crazy.

I've tried overclocking the GTX750ti with afterburner and I was able to gain about 10fps, but problems remained the same.

 

With VP990 I have a super smooth ball and super responsive gameplay (even without vsync enabled) so I exclude monitor and other related problems.

 

Now I was thinking to upgrade my cfg, but I dont know if it's a CPU or grphics card problem (or both). Where do you think the bottleneck is?

 

Are you using exclusive full screen ? (not windowed fullscreen) Are using any type of internal graphics as well as your 750Ti? With exclusive full screen setup similar to my posted settings in this thread...what are you experiencing?

 

Having a dual core chip "may" be an issue with VPX.  I have a 4 core i5 2500K and I noticed that all 4 cores were being used. I also had much better performance with 3 videos displayed at the same time in Pinball X when I went from 2 cores to 4 cores.

[Drybonz]

A follow-up to my stuttering problems... new CPU Fan arrived and installed. My CPU is now down to 32 degrees from 60+ and even higher when the fan on it got stuck. All games running super smooth, my hair is starting to grow back in from ripping it out.

Thanks so much for all the support.

 

Great troubleshooting roar.  I remember mentioning overheating as a possibility and I'm super glad you were able to get it all straightened out.  Troubleshooting hardware can be a real pain.

[Kernel]

Are you using exclusive full screen ? (not windowed fullscreen) Are using any type of internal graphics as well as your 750Ti? With exclusive full screen setup similar to my posted settings in this thread...what are you experiencing?

 

Having a dual core chip "may" be an issue with VPX.  I have a 4 core i5 2500K and I noticed that all 4 cores were being used. I also had much better performance with 3 videos displayed at the same time in Pinball X when I went from 2 cores to 4 cores.

 

 

Yes, I am using exclusive full screen (even though I have problems with pinball X and some tables/b2s not working despite the "bring vp back" option). and no internal graphics.
I've tried overclocking the 750ti and I gained something like 30 fps so I think there's no CPU bottleneck.
I have about 180fps with the heaviest table I've tried (cirqus voltaire) and about 240 fps on other tables. With vsync on 1 I have terrible lag. Putting vsync to 120 or 180 is much better but lag is still there. I can't understand why there is so much difference in flippers lag compared to VP9. The lag is noticeable also with mech sounds (i have no dof).
On my desktop PC (i7 4790k + 2xGTX770) with no b2s I get about +100fps and the flippers have the same responsiveness as VP9

Edited by Kernel, 26 September 2016 - 01:17 PM.

[Drybonz]

VP9 has lower requirements for the system.