2087 replies to this topic

[gtxjoe]

Print screen got me to - I thought I was going crazy   If you pause the table, Print screen works 

 

Barracora (Williams 1981) VP9.2.x FS gtxjoe 1.0.0 (http://www.vpforums....s&showfile=8936) - Decals over playfield lights are not working fully.  There are 2 "LOCK" decals showing but the rest are missing.

 

[mukuste]

Those are text decals I guess? They aren't implemented yet.

 

As a rule of thumb, anything with text in it (which is actually drawn with a font, not a bitmap) doesn't work yet

[gtxjoe]

It is an image decal created in photoshop.  Not text decal object

[mukuste]

It is an image decal created in photoshop.  Not text decal object

 

I... feel pretty stupid here, but I can't find those decals in the editor. I right click on one of those inserts and all it seems to give me back are lights.

 

I always have troubles finding stuff in this editor. How you guys manage to create entire tables with this thing is beyond me

[gtxjoe]

PFGI light is assigned to layer 8, so click on Layer 8 button to hide it.  The Blue layer is the decal object (layer 3).  it uses decal.png.  If you export decal.png, it an image with pure black background (0,0,0) with text images of color (5,5,5).  Zoom in and you will see the text.   The grey layer is the plastics layer (ramp) - layer 2.  Hide that layer and you can get to most of the VP objects.   

 

Various ways to get to objects: 

The other trick to get to objects is select top one, right click and translate it 1000 to move it out of the way.  repeat until you get to what you are looking for. 

 

And another way..,  hide one of the layers.  Now right click on an object and Assign it to that hidden layer

 

When you right click on an object, the right context menu will commands available but also show you all the objects under the pointer, and you can select an individual item from the list.  However, it appears Decal objects are not displayed in the list.   Fuzzel or Toxie is this a VP bug?

Edited by gtxjoe, 26 February 2014 - 03:08 AM.

[jimmyfingers]

It's unfair to say that the other algorithm wouldn't have worked well with curved ramps since both algorithms use only a single depth value to order alpha ramps, once purely the Z-value and once a linear combination of X/Y/Z according to view position. It's not clear that one should inherently work better than the other for non-convex objects like ramps. In fact, with non-convex objects like that, it's easy to think of a configuration where no draw order would produce the correct result, not even an artist-chosen one (curved ramp which partly obscures an element, but is also partly obscured by it).

Sorry, wasn't trying to put down your previous technique as I know you were pretty hopeful and proud of the concept.  I was basing that assertion a bit though from what it seemed you were echoing in a previous post about difficulties with curved ramps (a few posts / pages back) plus the impression I got that you also believed that the previous technique with table position also considered may be causing more problems than it was resolving.  I do still think though from some experience with a couple tables during the previous test build that we will have less issues with the pure Z function in general (for all objects whether ramp or other) because I saw some things where a square / rectangle alpha ramp just positioned a hair more towards the front of the table was changing the order undesirably (the Centaur table with several ramps just a bit more "forward" because of only the choice in their size vs. anything to do with actually wanting more close to the front of the table vs. the underlying ramps).  I agree that the plastic clear ramps in their nature may still pose problems where neither technique works ideally but I feel, as you mentioned in the PM, that the "greater good", considering all objects requiring ordering (alphas, primitives, and now lights), will probably come from this current / reverted approach.  

 

Thanks again for being open and welcoming all of our feedback and findings

[DJRobX]

It's not clear that one should inherently work better than the other for non-convex objects like ramps. In fact, with non-convex objects like that, it's easy to think of a configuration where no draw order would produce the correct result, not even an artist-chosen one (curved ramp which partly obscures an element, but is also partly obscured by it).

 

Perhaps we need an extra ramp setting so table authors can give your rendering engine a hint as to how the layering should be.   I think you're far enough along compatibility wise, just need to make sure glitches that remain are fixable, somehow... 

[lolo33]

 

Atlantis (Bally)(1989)(Icpjuggla, Oldskoolgamer, Herweh)(1.1 Mod) has the black insert issue.

Thanks. nice to know I am not crazy.

And yes I am using the same version of Atlantis that you listed.

I am also using the GI8 light version of indy 500 as well.

 

There is a v1.2 for this Atlantis mod but same problems.

http://www.vpforums....s&showfile=8238

Edited by lolo33, 26 February 2014 - 03:28 AM.

[chinzman93]

I just wanted to say thank you for all the work on this. The Test 6 build is great. I just played a game or 2 on about 20 tables and didn't need to restart once. Also, the performance is great even on my lower end machine. Can't wait to move this to the cab....

[ClarkKent]

Haven't tried the new version but if the Print Screen does not work while playing this is no good sign for the key press fix...

 

Edit: Just tried the new version and the exit key on my cab. It's interesting that it's working for some time but after playing for some minutes it starts to not work again. Now I do not understand that at all. Why is this working for some time and then not again? It's also interesting that as soon as it is not working, if I exit HyperPin and start it again, it is working again for some time. As soon as it starts to not work, I can only press ESC to exit by the "e" key or start HyperPin again.

 

It seems that as soon as the Visual Pinball Player is active it blocks AutoHotKey in some way. As soon as Visual Pinball Player is halted, AutoHotKey can access the keyboard again. But why it works some time and begins then to not work is a thing I do not understand...

 

And some bug report: White Water is better now but the two lights on the sign for the whirlpool still have a layer problem and the lower part of the texture of the insanity falls ramp is distorted a little bit. The latest mod of TAF has the flashers always on.

Edited by ClarkKent, 26 February 2014 - 07:28 AM.

[ressof]

 

Thats why I add this to every table to keep it from crashing when you dont close VP and run the table again..

 

Sub Table1_Paused:Controller.Pause = 1:End Sub

Sub Table1_unPaused:Controller.Pause = 0:End Sub

Sub Table1_exit()

 

 Controller.Stop

 

End sub

 

 

If you have the latest core.vbs all you have to do is put

vpmInit me

after <table_name>_init

 

It does the same thing.

[mukuste]

 

It's not clear that one should inherently work better than the other for non-convex objects like ramps. In fact, with non-convex objects like that, it's easy to think of a configuration where no draw order would produce the correct result, not even an artist-chosen one (curved ramp which partly obscures an element, but is also partly obscured by it).

 

Perhaps we need an extra ramp setting so table authors can give your rendering engine a hint as to how the layering should be.   I think you're far enough along compatibility wise, just need to make sure glitches that remain are fixable, somehow... 

 

 

I was initially opposed to new settings just to work around glitches with the new renderer since initially this whole current version was just intended as a stopgap between VP9 and a new VP10. Now however it seems that compatibility is already pretty good, and I put so much work into it that it would be kind of a shame not to go the extra mile and give table authors a way to make their tables perfect for this version, even if it's only a single version of VP. Who knows how long it takes until VP10 materializes...

 

It seems that most issues fall into two categories:

• black inserts
• depth sorting issues

The first one is already almost solved with the changes that I made, with one final small adjustment needed on the tables that didn't set black to transparent on their GI textures. The second issue could be solved in the same way that graphics engines deal with Z-fighting issues: by providing a "depth bias" text field on all relevant elements. This would let us say, "for the purposes of depth sorting, consider this element this many units higher/lower than it actually is". It would have no other effect than that. I think this would provide an easy local fix without authors having to manually fix a global draw order for all elements.

[frankrizzo2]

Just wanted to say what a great job you have been doing on this whole project mukuste!! It gets better and better with every update!

 

I did want to report some errors that I have had tonight with my testing though.

 

I had a few tables that I could not insert coins or start games with. I tried to restart the table a few times and tried to put focus on vpinmame or the table with no such luck on either one.One of the problem tables for me was the newest version of Rollercoaster Tycoon. There were a couple of others tonight too but for the life of me I can't remember them right now.

 

I also got the blue screen of death when trying to play the newest Funhouse but from the looks of it, it looked like a nv.dll of some sort so it may be nvidia related. I just installed the feb 24 drivers from nvidia tonight so that may be the cause of it. 

 

Other than that everything is running really great!

 

Windows XP

gtx460

gtx550ti

Newest nvidia stable drivers

newest vpmame dll

[mukuste]

When you right click on an object, the right context menu will commands available but also show you all the objects under the pointer, and you can select an individual item from the list.  However, it appears Decal objects are not displayed in the list.   Fuzzel or Toxie is this a VP bug?

 

Thanks for confirming that I'm not crazy It seems decals don't actually have a name, so they don't show up in that list?

 

I found the issue with the decals and fixed it. EDIT: To clarify, I mean the rendering issue on Barracora, not the editor right-click issue.

 

--------

 

I really like bent's idea with a Google spreadsheet (or something similar) for table compatibility. Would any community member volunteer to get that started? I kind of have my hands full with the actual fixes, so would prefer if I didn't have to maintain that myself. For the fields I imagine table name, table version, maybe FS or DT, tested VP version (e.g. Test6) and a comments field, either "renders ok", "renders ok with fix XYZ" (e.g. the black transparency fix), or "has issues XYZ". And maybe a green row background for tables which are fine.

Edited by mukuste, 26 February 2014 - 11:24 AM.

[BananaBoat]

Quick bug report of new test6.

The new beta doesn't seem to have fixed the graphics issue with the Avatar table. Need to set graphics to 2048 for it to run, otherwise unlimited causes it to crash still.

I'll keep testing and report anything as I go.

Many thanks

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk

[mukuste]

Quick bug report of new test6.

The new beta doesn't seem to have fixed the graphics issue with the Avatar table. Need to set graphics to 2048 for it to run, otherwise unlimited causes it to crash still.
 

 

Well, it could simply be your graphics card not supporting the large textures, or running out of memory. In general, I think there is no need to use a texture greater than 2048 for a full HD resolution (1920x1080), anything larger than that is just a waste of memory and doesn't improve the visual quality. So limiting to 2048 is the reasonable thing to do.

[BananaBoat]

Yea I'm happy with that, just thought I'd raise it.

I don't think it's a memory issue, probably more so a driver related problem.

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk

[mukuste]

I forgot to ask, are the memory leak problems more or less fixed for you?

[BananaBoat]

It's better but really only marginally to be honest

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk

[mukuste]

Ok. It might be a leak in that unofficial VPM version you're using then.