975 replies to this topic

[mjr]

I did this 4 years ago -- Works great

DC 5V 12V 24V Multifunction Self-lock Relay PLC Cycle Timer Module Delay Switch

 

Yep, that works too - that's basically what I did as well, with a DIY circuit that does the same thing.

 

@joseseguro, if you're not set on a specific solution and want to look at other options, my reasonably full survey of solutions is here, in the "TV Power Memory Problem" section:  

 

http://mjrnet.org/pi...=powerSwitching

My personal pick for the best current option is the IR solution via the KL25Z, though.  The eBay timer option still has the problem that you have to open the TV and physically connect to the TV's power button.  The IR approach avoids opening the TV, which can be tricky (and risks damaging the TV).

[joseseguro]

Thanks mjr, STV and Outhere for your rapid responses, and all the folks helping in the forums, the community is really great.

I decided to try the mini relay module solution, using the KL25Z for the "tv on" seemed too complex to achieve, at least for me, I was expecting to connect the two cables from the tv button to two pins on the board and that's it, but I was too optimistic lol.

I ordered the mini relay module that Outhere suggested from china, really cheap. I almost destroyed my playfield TV, but finally managed to isolate the two cables for power, so I'll post here when the board arrives and see if it works once installed (one month or so I think).

Thank you guys!

[STV]

 

Note that you could potentially automate it a little more as well on the Windows side.  You could use the PinscsapeCmd.exe tool (installed with the config tool) to send the IR command during system startup, using a .BAT script in your Startup folder, or via a Windows Task Scheduler task.

 

 

HOLY SMOKES!   I did not know about the availability of this functionality.  Works great.   Insert into the windows run at startup a batch file with this command in it. c:\directoutput\pinscapeconfigtool\pinscapecmd.exe SendIR=1 quiet

 

Thanks, once AGAIN!

[vihar]

Hello mjr!

 

First of all, many thanks for this awesome program!

 

However, I have an issue with the potentiometer plunger in Pinball FX3 and The Pinball Arcade. Strangely, it flawlessly works in Visual Pinball.

 

Problem is, that PBFX and TPA recognizes plunger movement only from the middle of the plunger so actually it translates the bottom half of the physical plunger to the entire virtual plunger.

 

I tried a lot of things already and haven't found a solution, as if I were the only one bothered by it.

 

Can you help me please?

Many thanks!

[mjr]

However, I have an issue with the potentiometer plunger in Pinball FX3 and The Pinball Arcade. Strangely, it flawlessly works in Visual Pinball.

 

Problem is, that PBFX and TPA recognizes plunger movement only from the middle of the plunger so actually it translates the bottom half of the physical plunger to the entire virtual plunger.

 

Right, it works in VP because it's designed for VP.  VP has a certain way of reading the plunger, and the Pinscape software generates the data in that format.

 

I suppose the commercial programs must have some different way of reading plunger input, but I'm afraid I don't know how they do it.  I was really under the impression that FX3 and TPA just didn't work at all with plunger devices, but it sounds like you're getting some kind of response from them.  Given the behavior you're seeing, it sounds like they just expect a different calibration range for the Z axis.

 

Here's my suggestion:  Maybe you can get in touch with the FX3 and/or TPA technical support people and see if they can tell you:

 

1.  Does your product support plunger devices?

 

2.  If so, what are the technical specs/requirements?

 

Or maybe someone here already has that information?  If so, please let us know!

 

If you can get the technical data on what they need, it's possible that I could add something to the Pinscape software to allow switching modes so that it generates data in the right format when you switch to FX3 Mode or TPA Mode.

[vihar]

Thanks for the quick reply!

 

I think getting some info from FX3 guys is possible, I'll ask.

 

In the meantime, FX3 plunger can be manually adjusted with the right analogue stick by default and that is what we emulating via x360ce, right?

And it does work like halfway

However, I tried to adjust center position through DIView and DXTweak2 but it did not seem to make a difference.

Somewhere I read that FX requires positive numbers as input while right analogue sends - to + some value, 0 being the center obviously. I tried changing that as well to no avail...

Edited by vihar, 14 September 2018 - 07:40 PM.

[mjr]

vihar - It sounds like it's just a matter of finding the right range adjustment for the x360ce device, then. 

 

For reference, a VP plunger reports values like this:

 

  * "0" is the resting position 

 

  * positive values represent pulling the plunger back toward the player

 

  * negative values represent positions forward of the resting position (pressed in so that the barrel spring is compressed)

Edited by mjr, 14 September 2018 - 07:56 PM.

[vihar]

In x360ce everything looks fine, and here I mean the controller graphics shows that the plunger resting position equals right stick's center and moving the plunger moves right stick towards player - and still it doesn't get through.

[_jonte]

What's the easiest way to connect the front button LED's (start, coin, etc), integrated and working with VP?
Do I need a LED-Wiz or similar? Is there an easier/cheaper way?
Currently I just use the 5v from the PSU to drive them, but they're on all the time then.
I guess there is no way driving them directly from the KL25Z? To high current?

Edited by _jonte, 15 September 2018 - 05:48 PM.

[mjr]

What's the easiest way to connect the front button LED's (start, coin, etc), integrated and working with VP?
Do I need a LED-Wiz or similar? Is there an easier/cheaper way?

 

LedWiz would probably the simplest and cheapest approach, actually.  It can seem a little daunting if you've never looked at it, but it's really pretty simple to set up.  The hard part is just figuring out the gigantic stack of software and hardware elements you have to put together.  The key piece on the software side is DOF.

 

Here's my intro to DOF, which might help clarify how all of this works:

 

http://mjrnet.org/pi...ide.php?sid=DOF

 

And then here's an overview of how feedback device wiring works.  Button lights are the same as any kind of feedback device - they're just something that want to hook up to the PC in such a way that the pinball software can turn them on and off.

 

http://mjrnet.org/pi...=feedbackWiring

 

 

 

I guess there is no way driving them directly from the KL25Z? To high current?

 

Right.  The KL25Z has incredibly feeble power output, 4mA max per output, so you need something to boost the signal.  For a low-power output, up to about 400mA, a really simple transistor circuit like this would work:

 

 

For force feedback devices, you'd want to go with something like an LedWiz or the Pinscape expansion boards.

[_jonte]

 

What's the easiest way to connect the front button LED's (start, coin, etc), integrated and working with VP?
Do I need a LED-Wiz or similar? Is there an easier/cheaper way?

 

LedWiz would probably the simplest and cheapest approach, actually.  It can seem a little daunting if you've never looked at it, but it's really pretty simple to set up.  The hard part is just figuring out the gigantic stack of software and hardware elements you have to put together.  The key piece on the software side is DOF.

 

Here's my intro to DOF, which might help clarify how all of this works:

 

http://mjrnet.org/pi...ide.php?sid=DOF

 

And then here's an overview of how feedback device wiring works.  Button lights are the same as any kind of feedback device - they're just something that want to hook up to the PC in such a way that the pinball software can turn them on and off.

 

http://mjrnet.org/pi...=feedbackWiring

 

 

 

I guess there is no way driving them directly from the KL25Z? To high current?

 

Right.  The KL25Z has incredibly feeble power output, 4mA max per output, so you need something to boost the signal.  For a low-power output, up to about 400mA, a really simple transistor circuit like this would work:

 

 

For force feedback devices, you'd want to go with something like an LedWiz or the Pinscape expansion boards.

 

Aha, I get how it's all connected now. Hadn't realized I had to use DOF for this.

Unfortunately the only place in the EU I can find selling the LED-Wiz is in Germany for about €80. A bit much for just connecting 6 LED's.

I will use SSF so I probably won't use anything else with the LED-Wiz.

Would that transistor circuit work work as intended with Pinscape? (And DOF?)

It seems really simple to just build 6 of those circuits instead of getting a LED-Wiz.

[mjr]

Aha, I get how it's all connected now. Hadn't realized I had to use DOF for this.

Unfortunately the only place in the EU I can find selling the LED-Wiz is in Germany for about €80. A bit much for just connecting 6 LED's.

 

I agree! 

 

 

Would that transistor circuit work work as intended with Pinscape? (And DOF?)

 

Yes, it should work fine.  Pinscape's output controller feature is enabled by default, so you just have to set up the wiring.

 

If you go to the Pinscape Config Tool settings page and scroll down to the bottom, to the Output Ports section, you'll see that a bunch of GPIO pins (about 20) are assigned by default as output ports (assuming you haven't remapped any GPIO ports already).  That will tell you which GPIO pins to use when wiring the transistor circuits.  For lights, you should pick ports that are shown as "PWM Out", since those are dimmable.  The "Digital Out" ports can only do on/off switching.  For lights you usually want PWM so you can do fades and other effects.

[gtxjoe]

For front buttons like start, exit, coin, and Launch just wire them directly to 5V or 12V.

[_jonte]

Aha, I get how it's all connected now. Hadn't realized I had to use DOF for this.
Unfortunately the only place in the EU I can find selling the LED-Wiz is in Germany for about €80. A bit much for just connecting 6 LED's.

 
I agree! 
 
 

Would that transistor circuit work work as intended with Pinscape? (And DOF?)

 
Yes, it should work fine.  Pinscape's output controller feature is enabled by default, so you just have to set up the wiring.
 
If you go to the Pinscape Config Tool settings page and scroll down to the bottom, to the Output Ports section, you'll see that a bunch of GPIO pins (about 20) are assigned by default as output ports (assuming you haven't remapped any GPIO ports already).  That will tell you which GPIO pins to use when wiring the transistor circuits.  For lights, you should pick ports that are shown as "PWM Out", since those are dimmable.  The "Digital Out" ports can only do on/off switching.  For lights you usually want PWM so you can do fades and other effects.

Thanks mjr, going to try this out! Just need to order some transistors..

[_jonte]

I agree! 
 

BTW, do you if it's ok to connect 12V to 5V (to get 7V) from the PSU? Or is it harmful for the PSU?

[mjr]

BTW, do you if it's ok to connect 12V to 5V (to get 7V) from the PSU? Or is it harmful for the PSU?

 

I'm not really sure.  I know people do it, and my limited understanding of the theory of operation is that it should be fine.  I haven't seen anything anywhere suggesting that it's harmful.  But I haven't exactly looked for such information, and it's certainly not how the power supplies are designed to be used, so I could believe there are practical reasons it's not ideal.  

[LynnInDenver]

BTW, do you if it's ok to connect 12V to 5V (to get 7V) from the PSU? Or is it harmful for the PSU?

Get a power supply to specifically supply 7V. Don't attempt to make a PSU connection in an attempt to "average out" a combination like that... you might get 12V anyway, frying whatever 7V thing you wanted to run, and potentially blow out the 5V rail in the PSU as well.

[mjr]

 

BTW, do you if it's ok to connect 12V to 5V (to get 7V) from the PSU? Or is it harmful for the PSU?

Get a power supply to specifically supply 7V. Don't attempt to make a PSU connection in an attempt to "average out" a combination like that... you might get 12V anyway, frying whatever 7V thing you wanted to run, and potentially blow out the 5V rail in the PSU as well.

 

Do you have a reference to that effect that you could point us to?  

 

For what it's worth, connecting between +12V and +5V doesn't "average out" the supplies.  It uses the voltage potential difference between the supplies, which _jonte correctly figured at 7V.  That voltage potential difference is how you get 12V power when you connect something between +12V and 0V (commonly called "Ground" but more properly called 0V in a DC supply), or 5V power when you connect something between +5V and 0V.  But like I said, I could believe there's some practical point about the way ATX supplies are constructed that makes it harmful to the PSU to connect between the rails - if there is, though, I'd be curious to know what it is.  So if you have a reference, I'd be interested in reading more so I could understand the details.

And _jonte - what's your application for the 7V supply?  One easy way to get arbitrary voltages below 12V is to use a regulator, which you can easily find on eBay by searching for "DC-DC step-down converter".  The downside is that the cheap ones have fairly low current limits, but that's fine if the device you're powering isn't too big.  I use this for 6.3V power for my #555 bulbs.

[LynnInDenver]

 

 

BTW, do you if it's ok to connect 12V to 5V (to get 7V) from the PSU? Or is it harmful for the PSU?

Get a power supply to specifically supply 7V. Don't attempt to make a PSU connection in an attempt to "average out" a combination like that... you might get 12V anyway, frying whatever 7V thing you wanted to run, and potentially blow out the 5V rail in the PSU as well.

 

Do you have a reference to that effect that you could point us to?  

 

For what it's worth, connecting between +12V and +5V doesn't "average out" the supplies.  It uses the voltage potential difference between the supplies, which _jonte correctly figured at 7V.  That voltage potential difference is how you get 12V power when you connect something between +12V and 0V (commonly called "Ground" but more properly called 0V in a DC supply), or 5V power when you connect something between +5V and 0V.  But like I said, I could believe there's some practical point about the way ATX supplies are constructed that makes it harmful to the PSU to connect between the rails - if there is, though, I'd be curious to know what it is.  So if you have a reference, I'd be interested in reading more so I could understand the details.

And _jonte - what's your application for the 7V supply?  One easy way to get arbitrary voltages below 12V is to use a regulator, which you can easily find on eBay by searching for "DC-DC step-down converter".  The downside is that the cheap ones have fairly low current limits, but that's fine if the device you're powering isn't too big.  I use this for 6.3V power for my #555 bulbs.

 

 

https://forums.anand...od-safe.155512/

 

https://electronics....ion-in-parallel

 

Basically, what I've seen out there indicates that it only sometimes works, but it's a really dodgy thing to do even to a PSU that tolerates it as it loads down the 5V rail in a way that it wasn't meant to handle (read: it feeds current into the regulator for the rail in the wrong direction). It's always better to get an actual regulator or another PSU to get the 7V and "do it right" than jury rig the existing PSU to "do it cheap right now". Especially since, if you find you get a PSU that doesn't tolerate that treatment, there's really not any guarantee it won't still manage to feed the 7V device an amount of voltage that lets out the magic smoke before the protection trips. (hint: I've blown up devices with literally only a half a volt difference in the 7V arena.)

[mjr]

 

Do you have a reference to that effect that you could point us to?  

 

https://forums.anand...od-safe.155512/

 

https://electronics....ion-in-parallel

 

Thanks... but the second one is actually addressing a completely different question (read it again and you'll see what I mean), and the first one is on point but isn't exactly what I meant by "reference" - it's just some random Internet people posting their random opinions, by the look of it.  (And at least a few of the opinions are "it's fine!", for that matter.)  Have you seen anything that's actually reference-like?   I tend to agree with you that it's best to err on the side of caution, but I'm still curious about the engineering question.