834 replies to this topic

[toxie]

Just had a read over at the unity3D threads, there is a sample video of T2.

Is this the kind of perspective we can expect from VP10? I'm just trying to get an understanding of what's to come, which is kind of difficult from the current screen shots.

 

There will be no dynamic lighting that is comparable to unit3d (yet.. maybe with >10.0.0 we will go in that direction), also the camera will still be static during gameplay..

So the dynamic light effects will still be part of the artists work, same as with VP9 (but hopefully much easier to setup for them)..

The benefit is that on the average we should be able to have much higher framerates than unit3d has..

[BananaBoat]

I guess what I'm trying to understand is, will the view be similar to that of unity3d, with real 3d objects, ramps with varying slopes and elevations ....all in 3d, not like we have currently?

[BananaBoat]

Also, I've been having a discussion over on another forum regarding vp10.nudge where a few people have stated that in vp10, nudging will be different in that there will be no movement on the ball unless being nudged off an object.

This doesn't sound right to me, can anyone clarify further?

[unclewilly]

Yes thats about right. Slight movement on a nudge unless the ball contacts an object.

On a real pin even a strong nudge doesnt really effect the trajectory of the ball, unless it contacts an object.
The vp9.9.1 nudge is just wrong

[toxie]

I guess what I'm trying to understand is, will the view be similar to that of unity3d, with real 3d objects, ramps with varying slopes and elevations ....all in 3d, not like we have currently?

 

The view can always be made (kinda) similar to that of unit3d. Real 3d objects are also already possible, same with ramps.

 

Just the camera cannot be moved in realtime, only in the editor. This is future work.

[fuzzel]

Can someone please explain what he/she means with real 3D objects? VP9/10 already has real 3D objects. Nearly every element is a 3D object even in VP9. In VP10 you will get a new look of build-in objects like spinners, triggers, wire ramps and so on. Older VP9 versions didn't support importing of 3D meshes therefore authors had to add images or rebuilt objects with walls and ramps and therefore the tables looked somewhat flat.

At the moment there is a good reason for not moving the camera in VP and that is perfomance. Even in VP10 you can use a mid-range gfx card to play tables because some objects are pre-rendered (e.g. static objects). To support the dynamic camera we had to render each static object each frame and that would have impact on the FPS. This feature will come in next versions of VP but in the first release. We have to optimize the core engine to support that.

[bosvrucht]

Yes thats about right. Slight movement on a nudge unless the ball contacts an object.

On a real pin even a strong nudge doesnt really effect the trajectory of the ball, unless it contacts an object.
The vp9.9.1 nudge is just wrong

 

Some people have gotten used to the 9.x nudging, and actually prefer it.   I have embraced the fact that I am playing a video game (and that I suck at pinball).  The powerful nudge can make the game more fun for people who are not pinball wizards.

 

Would adjustable nudging behaviour be out of the question?

[unclewilly]

I mean essentially i believe if you play with a keyboard you may be able to get a nudge powerful enough to move the ball through the keypress script, but it will still be nowhere near the vp9 nudge.
it was pretty much a choice, rewrite the code for a more realistic nudge behavior or try and make the old nudge behavior more realistic through the table script.

So since the ohusics h available e moved toward more realistic behavior it is only natural that the nudge should follow suit
Btw. I suck at pinball as well. But i never even think about nudging until i got a cab with analog nudge

[mfuegemann]

Hi,

 

please do not put too much effort into the moving camera. For cab use it is almost pointless and in the desktop view the first thing, I seek out is where to switch it off.

 

Regards

Michael

[jimmyfingers]

Hi,

 

please do not put too much effort into the moving camera. For cab use it is almost pointless and in the desktop view the first thing, I seek out is where to switch it off.

 

Regards

Michael

It sounds like you're thinking of the "Ball follow" type options and camera moving to where the ball goes on a table and I don't believe that's what the developers mean for dynamic camera as I believe they mean dynamic camera more for the purposes of tuning a view.  

[mfuegemann]

Hi jimmyfingers,

 

exactly, You are right. If it is the option to change the table view by rotating/moving the camera, that would be great.

 

Regards

Michael

Edited by mfuegemann, 22 January 2015 - 04:09 PM.

[chepas]

As said, different cameras are essentially just for desktop users but....if there was an option to set the backdrop variables before table is launched that would be great.

 

If any of the options/variables could be set before launch you could do away with having duplicates of tables for FS & DS. After all, most tables these days can be changed without harming it.

 

However it would be done, via registry or an ini , it would be awesome.

Edited by chepas, 22 January 2015 - 04:39 PM.

[fuzzel]

I think it's going to be much easier in VP10 with setting the camera than in VP9. With VP10 you don't have to use elements for thing they weren't built for. Like in old VP9 days where you have to use ramps for flashers. This means converting a FL table into a desktop version and vice versa is just a adjustment of the backdrop settings and you can use the camera mode to find the correct settings quite easily.

[ICPjuggla]

Hi,
 
please do not put too much effort into the moving camera. For cab use it is almost pointless and in the desktop view the first thing, I seek out is where to switch it off.
 
Regards
Michael

I totally agree with this and think it's pointless. We really have no need for a moving camera.

[Shockman]

On a real pin even a strong nudge doesnt really effect the trajectory of the ball, unless it contacts an object.
The vp9.9.1 nudge is just wrong

 

A real pin is in a real world. So is a cabinet. 

 

A ball on a real pin is also in a real world, But as we think of motion relative to our world, so must a pinball, and the world of a pinball is the pinball table. To properly simulate a pinball table the pinball table is the whole world. To properly simulate a pinball, the table is it's whole world. We don't consider the fact that if the world is traveling through space at 600,000 mph or what ever that we can not nudge a ball in the other direction unless we can apply more than 600,000 mph worth of force on it. Nor is there any real reason to consider this.

 

In a pinballs world, it's trajectory is changed by a nudge and it's also changed back more or less by the same action (this is what has been missing only since VP9). We that nudge nudge the ball into things, not just off of things.

 

I assume with the cabinet with a analog nudging device the ball position relative to the table is maintained during the nudge with collision detection also maintained??? The device is reading the motion there and back?

 

With a stationary monitor (desktop) the ball would not change either, relative to our world (the monitor) but still would have to relative to it's world, the table. The only way I can think of for this would be to move the table graphic in relation to the ball. Preferably without moving whatever backdrop. Is VP10 going to be able to do this??? This would be a logical use for a camera change and is what Pinball Arcade does. PA moves the backdrop, but it moves the table graphic more. I suppose the moving of the backdrop is to simulate a persons body motion. Anyway I have no complaints and am instead impressed with the method.

Edited by user, 22 January 2015 - 05:34 PM.

[sliderpoint]

Can someone please explain what he/she means with real 3D objects? VP9/10 already has real 3D objects. Nearly every element is a 3D object even in VP9. In VP10 you will get a new look of build-in objects like spinners, triggers, wire ramps and so on. Older VP9 versions didn't support importing of 3D meshes therefore authors had to add images or rebuilt objects with walls and ramps and therefore the tables looked somewhat flat.

 

 

Right now the primitives seem to be just for visuals. You still have to have a hidden wall or ramp under the primitive and the prim set to not-collidable in order to have proper physics.  Will that still be the case, or will the collisions with primitives work better? 

 

-Mike

[ckovanda]

 

Hi,
 
please do not put too much effort into the moving camera. For cab use it is almost pointless and in the desktop view the first thing, I seek out is where to switch it off.
 
Regards
Michael

I totally agree with this and think it's pointless. We really have no need for a moving camera.

 

not so fast there, what about for integration with Ravarcade's BAM headtracking software?  certainly a dynamic camera makes sense there...

[unclewilly]

Absolutely right on the nudge explination shocky

[freneticamnesic]

 

Can someone please explain what he/she means with real 3D objects? VP9/10 already has real 3D objects. Nearly every element is a 3D object even in VP9. In VP10 you will get a new look of build-in objects like spinners, triggers, wire ramps and so on. Older VP9 versions didn't support importing of 3D meshes therefore authors had to add images or rebuilt objects with walls and ramps and therefore the tables looked somewhat flat.

 

 

Right now the primitives seem to be just for visuals. You still have to have a hidden wall or ramp under the primitive and the prim set to not-collidable in order to have proper physics.  Will that still be the case, or will the collisions with primitives work better? 

 

-Mike

 

 

I thought they mentioned that primitives would be collidable objects, at least that was the impression I have had

[unclewilly]

Static primitives are already collidable in vp 9.9. Just need to uncheck the istoy box.
mukeste was going to work on making dynamic primitives collidable when he wasdoing the physics modifications if i remember correctly