1103 replies to this topic

[Fusionwerks]

Sigh... OK im an idiot... Yes, i reloaded windows, vpx, b2s, etc, but i never changed anything on the dof config tool. I went to the dof config tool, and i forgot that i was trying to get my gear motor and my exit button light to work a while back and i had it mapped in different places. Turns out They were mapped to port 1 & 2 on the pinscape1 page. Makes sense now, the game starts, and the exit button light lights up... AND so does the flasher that's assigned to the same port.... MORON... sorry for making you come up with wild ideas about optos, but i appreciate the help!

[mjr]

Glad you found the culprit!  It's always good when these weird issues turn out to be something definite.  Maybe Arngrim could add some sanity checks to the config tool at some point to catch doubled-up ports and warn about them - that would have saved a lot of hair-pulling in this case!

[rba]

Has anyone found a replacement for the TLC5940? It seems to be obsolete

[mjr]

Has anyone found a replacement for the TLC5940? It seems to be obsolete

 

You're quite right, it's definitely obsolete and impossible to find, unfortunately.

 

There are no direct replacements that I'm aware of.  I go hunting for options from time to time, because the basic design works so nicely, but I've never been able to find anything.  It seems that the market niche that this product occupied is no longer viable, since no one makes anything similar.,

 

There are some completely different approaches that work well, though.  The Pinscape software is sensor-agnostic - it has built-in support for several types, and it's extensible at the source code level if you can come up a novel sensor to try.  The best two "off the shelf" options right now are:

 

http://mjrnet.org/pi...hp?sid=aedr8300

 

http://mjrnet.org/pi...ide.php?sid=pot

 

Of the two, the AEDR-8300 is the more precise, but it's rather complex to set up (and moderately expensive - about $40 in parts).  The pot isn't quite as precise a sensor, but it's really easy to set up and really cheap.  And most people who have built them say they work great.  So my standard advice is to give the pot a try first - you can always replace it with something else if you don't like the way it works, and you'll only be out about $6 for having tried it.  

[rba]

 

Has anyone found a replacement for the TLC5940? It seems to be obsolete

 

You're quite right, it's definitely obsolete and impossible to find, unfortunately.

 

There are no direct replacements that I'm aware of.  I go hunting for options from time to time, because the basic design works so nicely, but I've never been able to find anything.  It seems that the market niche that this product occupied is no longer viable, since no one makes anything similar.,

 

There are some completely different approaches that work well, though.  The Pinscape software is sensor-agnostic - it has built-in support for several types, and it's extensible at the source code level if you can come up a novel sensor to try.  The best two "off the shelf" options right now are:

 

http://mjrnet.org/pi...hp?sid=aedr8300

 

http://mjrnet.org/pi...ide.php?sid=pot

 

Of the two, the AEDR-8300 is the more precise, but it's rather complex to set up (and moderately expensive - about $40 in parts).  The pot isn't quite as precise a sensor, but it's really easy to set up and really cheap.  And most people who have built them say they work great.  So my standard advice is to give the pot a try first - you can always replace it with something else if you don't like the way it works, and you'll only be out about $6 for having tried it.  

 

 

hmm...seems to be some confusion here. I was thinking of the PWM LED driver for JP8 not the plunger sensor. There are still some available in some stores but here is says obsolete: https://www.mouser.s...SrMHTBj3mculQ== On the other hand according to texas web site it is still active so maybe it's a regional thing?

 

Also in the 2/10/2016 schematics it is named TCL5940 while in the parts list it says TLC5940, I guess the latter is correct since that is the one I have ordered.

[mjr]

hmm...seems to be some confusion here. I was thinking of the PWM LED driver for JP8 not the plunger sensor. There are still some available in some stores but here is says obsolete: https://www.mouser.s...SrMHTBj3mculQ== On the other hand according to texas web site it is still active so maybe it's a regional thing?

 

Also in the 2/10/2016 schematics it is named TCL5940 while in the parts list it says TLC5940, I guess the latter is correct since that is the one I have ordered.

 

Oh, I'm sorry, I misread that!  I thought you were talking about the old optical plunger sensor.

 

Yes, the TLC5940NT (the DIP package version) is obsolete.  However, it's still widely available.  It's in fact so easy to come by that some of us have speculated that some Chinese fabs must be cranking out knock-off versions, because TI stopped making them about three years ago, but the warehouses never seem to run out.  Check on eBay or Alibaba to find them.  They're really cheap on eBay - about $1 to $2 per chip.

 

The Pinscape software actually already has some built-in future-proofing, in the form of support for a successor chip from TI called the TLC59116.  In all ways it's a much nicer and more modern chip, and I'd rather dump the TLC5940NT and use the new ones... except for one problem.  They only come in SMD packages.  Those are designed for robotic assembly-line soldering and are somewhat difficult to solder by hand.  I figure that one day we'll have to move the design over to some new SMD part, but I've been trying to put that off as long as possible, which is to say as long as the DIP chips are still easy to buy.

[CoPinFan]

Hi there,

 

I'm having a problem with my plunger (potentiometer).  I've got it hooked up and it appears to be working in the live plunger sensor viewer in the Pinscape settings (registers and calibrates).  However, I get no response from the plunger in the joystick viewer in pinscape setup or windows joystick setup.  I've also made sure that joystick is enabled in pinscape settings.  Is this just a setting somewhere that I'm missing?

[dannygey]

Hello guys,

 

I have build the expansionboard and mosfetboard.

When testing trough the pinscapeconfigtool all outputs work fine exept the rgb flipper ports, non off the ports are working.

 

steps I already did

- replaced the TLC5940 ic

- measured all connections from the SIN, SCLK,SLAT, BLANK.... to TLC5940

- 3,3 V is on pin 21 VCC 

 

The darlington outputs and mosfet outputs all work fine so the SIN SOUT connection works fine

maybe this is some addressing problem ?

 

Any advice is welcome

 

Kind Regards

Danny

[mjr]

I have build the expansionboard and mosfetboard.

When testing trough the pinscapeconfigtool all outputs work fine exept the rgb flipper ports, non off the ports are working.

 

steps I already did

- replaced the TLC5940 ic

- measured all connections from the SIN, SCLK,SLAT, BLANK.... to TLC5940

- 3,3 V is on pin 21 VCC 

 

The darlington outputs and mosfet outputs all work fine so the SIN SOUT connection works fine

maybe this is some addressing problem ?

 

It sounds like you've done the right tests so far.  The flipper RGB ports are wired to the second TLC5940 chip, so as far as the software setup goes, just make sure those ports are all saying they're assigned to TLC5940 #2 in the output port list in the Config Tool.  The TLC5940 outputs form one giant serial daisy chain, so it's a really good sign that your Darlington outputs are power board outputs are all working.  The data signal runs through the chips like this:

 

KL25Z ---> TLC5940#1 ---> TLC5940#2 ---> TLC5940#3 ---> ...

 

So if #1 and #3 are working, that pretty much guarantees that #2 is both receiving the data signal and sending it back out, which in turn more or less guarantees that the chip is working properly.

 

One question:  what kind of devices are you attaching to the flipper RGB ports?  The thing about those ports that makes them different is that they have built-in current limiters.  The exact current limit depends on the value of resistor R5 that you installed - if you used the default 2.2K in the parts list, it's 20mA, and the highest it can be is about 60mA, which you get by using a 680 ohm for R5.  So if you're trying to run something that needs more than 20-60 mA, the ports might be turning on properly, but the current limiter might just be preventing the device from showing any sign of life.   An easy test for that would be to hook up a standard small 20mA LED between the +5V on JP8 and one of the other pins on JP8, and use the Config Tool to turn on that port:

 

  JP8 pin 18 (+5V) ---- (+) small 20mA LED (-) ----- JP8 pin 1 (Left Flipper RGB "R" channel)

(Note that you don't need any extra resistor with the LED in this particular circuit, unlike practically every other context where you hook up an LED, because these outputs have the built-in current limiters.)

[mjr]

I'm having a problem with my plunger (potentiometer).  I've got it hooked up and it appears to be working in the live plunger sensor viewer in the Pinscape settings (registers and calibrates).  However, I get no response from the plunger in the joystick viewer in pinscape setup or windows joystick setup.  I've also made sure that joystick is enabled in pinscape settings.  Is this just a setting somewhere that I'm missing?

 

Sorry I missed this earlier.  Did you get it working? 

 

It's strange that it would work in the Config Tool sensor viewer but not anywhere else.  When you look at it in the sensor viewer, I assume it's behaving reasonably?  The on-screen position tracks the motion of the physical pot correctly?

 

When you run the Windows joystick control panel ("Set up USB game devices"), you're seeing Pinscape Controller in the list, right?  What does the control panel look like when you open that?  Does the little "crosshairs" representing the X/Y axes respond to the accelerometer?  You should see it wiggle around in response to vibration or bumping the KL25Z board, and you should be able to move it around by tilting the board in different directions.  How about the buttons?  Do you see the array of 32 buttons, and do they light up when you connect the corresponding GPIO pins to the KL25Z ground pin?

Edited by mjr, 30 January 2019 - 07:59 PM.

[CoPinFan]

 

I'm having a problem with my plunger (potentiometer).  I've got it hooked up and it appears to be working in the live plunger sensor viewer in the Pinscape settings (registers and calibrates).  However, I get no response from the plunger in the joystick viewer in pinscape setup or windows joystick setup.  I've also made sure that joystick is enabled in pinscape settings.  Is this just a setting somewhere that I'm missing?

 

Sorry I missed this earlier.  Did you get it working? 

 

It's strange that it would work in the Config Tool sensor viewer but not anywhere else.  When you look at it in the sensor viewer, I assume it's behaving reasonably?  The on-screen position tracks the motion of the physical pot correctly?

 

When you run the Windows joystick control panel ("Set up USB game devices"), you're seeing Pinscape Controller in the list, right?  What does the control panel look like when you open that?  Does the little "crosshairs" representing the X/Y axes respond to the accelerometer?  You should see it wiggle around in response to vibration or bumping the KL25Z board, and you should be able to move it around by tilting the board in different directions.  How about the buttons?  Do you see the array of 32 buttons, and do they light up when you connect the corresponding GPIO pins to the KL25Z ground pin?

 

Still havn't gotten it working.  The potentiometer seems to be working just fine in the pinscape settings.  Very stable and calibrates correctly.  Yes, the on-screen position tracks the motion of the physical pot correctly.  Pinscape Controller shows up in the "Set up USB game devices" and the control panel shows the accelerometer, buttons and z axis for the plunger.  The crosshair responds to the accelerometer when I bump the cab.  The button dots in the control panel do not react to button pushes on the cab, but the buttons work otherwise (in game and everywhere else).  The z axis in the Windows joystick control panel does not respond to the plunger movement.  

[mjr]

Still havn't gotten it working.  The potentiometer seems to be working just fine in the pinscape settings.  Very stable and calibrates correctly.  Yes, the on-screen position tracks the motion of the physical pot correctly.  Pinscape Controller shows up in the "Set up USB game devices" and the control panel shows the accelerometer, buttons and z axis for the plunger.  The crosshair responds to the accelerometer when I bump the cab.  The button dots in the control panel do not react to button pushes on the cab, but the buttons work otherwise (in game and everywhere else).  The z axis in the Windows joystick control panel does not respond to the plunger movement.  

 

This is really strange!  It sounds like everything is working exactly as it should except for the Z axis on the joystick interface, and I'm having a hard time coming up with any guesses about what could cause that.

 

It sounds like the basic joystick interface must be working properly, since the device shows up in the Windows joystick list and seems to be responding properly on the X/Y axes.

 

As far as the buttons go, I'm going to guess you have the buttons mapped as keyboard keys rather than joystick buttons.  If that's true, then it's normal that the buttons aren't lighting up in the joystick control panel; that would only happen for buttons specifically mapped as joystick buttons.  If they are mapped as joystick buttons, though, that would be another possibly important data point, so let me know one way or the other.

 

Do you have any other joystick-type devices in your system?  It really shouldn't be a problem if you do, since Windows can easily handle multiple joysticks, but I'm just trying to rule out any outside possibilities, so it might be worth disconnecting anything else that looks like a joystick to see if that makes any difference.

 

When you go to the plunger sensor viewer in the config tool, what are the limits that it shows for the calibration range?

[CoPinFan]

 

Still havn't gotten it working.  The potentiometer seems to be working just fine in the pinscape settings.  Very stable and calibrates correctly.  Yes, the on-screen position tracks the motion of the physical pot correctly.  Pinscape Controller shows up in the "Set up USB game devices" and the control panel shows the accelerometer, buttons and z axis for the plunger.  The crosshair responds to the accelerometer when I bump the cab.  The button dots in the control panel do not react to button pushes on the cab, but the buttons work otherwise (in game and everywhere else).  The z axis in the Windows joystick control panel does not respond to the plunger movement.  

 

This is really strange!  It sounds like everything is working exactly as it should except for the Z axis on the joystick interface, and I'm having a hard time coming up with any guesses about what could cause that.

 

It sounds like the basic joystick interface must be working properly, since the device shows up in the Windows joystick list and seems to be responding properly on the X/Y axes.

 

As far as the buttons go, I'm going to guess you have the buttons mapped as keyboard keys rather than joystick buttons.  If that's true, then it's normal that the buttons aren't lighting up in the joystick control panel; that would only happen for buttons specifically mapped as joystick buttons.  If they are mapped as joystick buttons, though, that would be another possibly important data point, so let me know one way or the other.

 

Do you have any other joystick-type devices in your system?  It really shouldn't be a problem if you do, since Windows can easily handle multiple joysticks, but I'm just trying to rule out any outside possibilities, so it might be worth disconnecting anything else that looks like a joystick to see if that makes any difference.

 

When you go to the plunger sensor viewer in the config tool, what are the limits that it shows for the calibration range?

 

Yeah it is strange.  The buttons are mapped to keyboard keys and there are no other joysticks connected to the computer.  There is a bluetooth dongle connected for the wireless keyboard and I disconnected it but there was no change.  The calibration range is 12603 (Park) and 54131 (Max).

[mjr]

Yeah it is strange.  The buttons are mapped to keyboard keys and there are no other joysticks connected to the computer.  There is a bluetooth dongle connected for the wireless keyboard and I disconnected it but there was no change.  The calibration range is 12603 (Park) and 54131 (Max).

 

That seems perfectly reasonable for the calibration range.  I'm really at a loss.

 

Just so I'm sure I'm picturing this correctly, in the Windows joystick control panel, you are seeing a Z axis bar, right?  Does it just sit there at the center point the whole time, or is it showing some other reading?

 

Do you happen to have another PC you could try attaching the KL25Z to?  It might be too big a pain if it's already installed in your cab, but if it's doable to remove it temporarily, you could just plug in the KL25Z via a USB cable and see what the other computer sees on its joystick control panel.  You wouldn't even have to plug in the potentiometer for the test.  The background electrical noise on the unplugged GPIO input should cause the Z axis to bounce around randomly, so you could at least see if you're getting any sort of Z axis response on another machine.

One other thought.  If you ever happened to run the Windows joystick calibration in the past, that could be screwing things up.  You might try going into the Windows joystick control panel and deleting the old calibration data - go to the Settings tab and click on "Restore to default".

[CoPinFan]

 

Yeah it is strange.  The buttons are mapped to keyboard keys and there are no other joysticks connected to the computer.  There is a bluetooth dongle connected for the wireless keyboard and I disconnected it but there was no change.  The calibration range is 12603 (Park) and 54131 (Max).

 

That seems perfectly reasonable for the calibration range.  I'm really at a loss.

 

Just so I'm sure I'm picturing this correctly, in the Windows joystick control panel, you are seeing a Z axis bar, right?  Does it just sit there at the center point the whole time, or is it showing some other reading?

 

Do you happen to have another PC you could try attaching the KL25Z to?  It might be too big a pain if it's already installed in your cab, but if it's doable to remove it temporarily, you could just plug in the KL25Z via a USB cable and see what the other computer sees on its joystick control panel.  You wouldn't even have to plug in the potentiometer for the test.  The background electrical noise on the unplugged GPIO input should cause the Z axis to bounce around randomly, so you could at least see if you're getting any sort of Z axis response on another machine.

One other thought.  If you ever happened to run the Windows joystick calibration in the past, that could be screwing things up.  You might try going into the Windows joystick control panel and deleting the old calibration data - go to the Settings tab and click on "Restore to default".

 

Yes I'm seeing a Z axis bar and the Z axis bar doesn't move at all in the windows  joystick control panel.  Looking at raw data in the windows z axis calibration shows a solid zero.  I tried connecting it to another computer (also running windows 10 x64) and it did the same thing.  No movement on the z axis bar in windows setup, but it appears to be working in the live sensor view in  pinscape configuration setup. Also tried resetting to default and no change.  Thank you for all your suggestions, I'll keep fiddling with it. 

[mjr]

Yes I'm seeing a Z axis bar and the Z axis bar doesn't move at all in the windows  joystick control panel.  Looking at raw data in the windows z axis calibration shows a solid zero.  I tried connecting it to another computer (also running windows 10 x64) and it did the same thing.  No movement on the z axis bar in windows setup, but it appears to be working in the live sensor view in  pinscape configuration setup. Also tried resetting to default and no change.  Thank you for all your suggestions, I'll keep fiddling with it. 

 

I'm pretty stumped.  Since you're seeing the same thing on a second PC, that mostly rules out something wrong on the Windows side.

 

The only thing I can think of to try right now is doing a fresh firmware install, since it seems like something's screwy on the controller.

 

- Back up your current settings with the Config Tool backup/restore page

- Do a fresh firmware install with "Set up a new KL25Z"

- Restore the backed-up settings

[dannygey]

 

I have build the expansionboard and mosfetboard.

When testing trough the pinscapeconfigtool all outputs work fine exept the rgb flipper ports, non off the ports are working.

 

steps I already did

- replaced the TLC5940 ic

- measured all connections from the SIN, SCLK,SLAT, BLANK.... to TLC5940

- 3,3 V is on pin 21 VCC 

 

The darlington outputs and mosfet outputs all work fine so the SIN SOUT connection works fine

maybe this is some addressing problem ?

 

It sounds like you've done the right tests so far.  The flipper RGB ports are wired to the second TLC5940 chip, so as far as the software setup goes, just make sure those ports are all saying they're assigned to TLC5940 #2 in the output port list in the Config Tool.  The TLC5940 outputs form one giant serial daisy chain, so it's a really good sign that your Darlington outputs are power board outputs are all working.  The data signal runs through the chips like this:

 

KL25Z ---> TLC5940#1 ---> TLC5940#2 ---> TLC5940#3 ---> ...

 

So if #1 and #3 are working, that pretty much guarantees that #2 is both receiving the data signal and sending it back out, which in turn more or less guarantees that the chip is working properly.

 

One question:  what kind of devices are you attaching to the flipper RGB ports?  The thing about those ports that makes them different is that they have built-in current limiters.  The exact current limit depends on the value of resistor R5 that you installed - if you used the default 2.2K in the parts list, it's 20mA, and the highest it can be is about 60mA, which you get by using a 680 ohm for R5.  So if you're trying to run something that needs more than 20-60 mA, the ports might be turning on properly, but the current limiter might just be preventing the device from showing any sign of life.   An easy test for that would be to hook up a standard small 20mA LED between the +5V on JP8 and one of the other pins on JP8, and use the Config Tool to turn on that port:

 

  JP8 pin 18 (+5V) ---- (+) small 20mA LED (-) ----- JP8 pin 1 (Left Flipper RGB "R" channel)

(Note that you don't need any extra resistor with the LED in this particular circuit, unlike practically every other context where you hook up an LED, because these outputs have the built-in current limiters.)

 

 

 

Hello mjr,

 

Thanks for the fast respons.

 

I am glad that I can say that it has been resolved

Your remark about the current restriction resistor put me in the right direction.

When i measure from the GND to R5 i have 1k , but on pin 20 off the TLC5940#2 my measurment turns to 10k.

Turns out the connection between pin 20 and R5 was broken.

 

This must have happend when i replaced the original 2,2K with a 1k (my flipper led bord i made needs 35ma) , so i brought this on myself   

 

Thanks again for the help.

 

Danny

 

[mjr]

 

I am glad that I can say that it has been resolved

Your remark about the current restriction resistor put me in the right direction.

When i measure from the GND to R5 i have 1k , but on pin 20 off the TLC5940#2 my measurment turns to 10k.

Turns out the connection between pin 20 and R5 was broken.

 

Great!  Glad you tracked it down.

 

 

 

This must have happend when i replaced the original 2,2K with a 1k (my flipper led bord i made needs 35ma) , so i brought this on myself 

 

In retrospect, I should have found some way to make that resistor more easily replaceable - I'm sure you're not the only person who's had to change it after the initial build.  Or maybe I should have made it one of those little adjustable variable resistors that has a screw on the top to set the resistance.  Actually, I should check on Mouser to see if I can find one of those with the right resistance range that fits the space.  If there's something that'll fit the same space, I could just change it on the parts list.

[CoPinFan]

 

Yes I'm seeing a Z axis bar and the Z axis bar doesn't move at all in the windows  joystick control panel.  Looking at raw data in the windows z axis calibration shows a solid zero.  I tried connecting it to another computer (also running windows 10 x64) and it did the same thing.  No movement on the z axis bar in windows setup, but it appears to be working in the live sensor view in  pinscape configuration setup. Also tried resetting to default and no change.  Thank you for all your suggestions, I'll keep fiddling with it. 

 

I'm pretty stumped.  Since you're seeing the same thing on a second PC, that mostly rules out something wrong on the Windows side.

 

The only thing I can think of to try right now is doing a fresh firmware install, since it seems like something's screwy on the controller.

 

- Back up your current settings with the Config Tool backup/restore page

- Do a fresh firmware install with "Set up a new KL25Z"

- Restore the backed-up settings

 

That did the trick!  My plunger is now working.  Thank you very much for the help.

[toy4x4]

Quick question and I know the answer, but I want to just make triple sure before I fry something..

 

I have a PC I hook up the boards to via USB, but it's a test system and my main PC. I am going to hookup the power to the main expansion board via a power supply I have and am going to hook the 5v and 12v to the main board from that one power supply. Any concerns with this? I assume not.

 

 

 

Oh, Just thought of one more.

 

I am going to hook two contractors up to the power board and have a 24v PSU for it. I assume I need to combine the grounds from the above PSU and the 24v PSU?

Edited by toy4x4, 01 February 2019 - 04:22 PM.