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The road to VP10
Started By
fuzzel
, Apr 30 2014 06:11 AM
834 replies to this topic
#664
Posted 21 January 2015 - 04:04 PM
I wonder if it is possible to overhaul the plunger behavior if using a mechanical analogue plunger. A friend of mine noticed a bad behavior when moving the plunger back in the resting position too fast - VP thinks you let go of the plunger. If you move it back slowly this does not happen but if you reach a certain speed the plunger shoots out the ball but you are still holding the plunger on your position.
Watch:
https://www.dropbox....r_BTTF.mp4?dl=0
https://www.dropbox....otOut1.mov?dl=0
https://www.dropbox....otOut2.mov?dl=0
Edited by ClarkKent, 21 January 2015 - 04:11 PM.
#665
Posted 21 January 2015 - 04:12 PM
I wonder if it is possible to overhaul the plunger behavior if using a mechanical analogue plunger. A friend of mine noticed a bad behavior when moving the plunger back in the resting position too fast - VP thinks you let go of the plunger. If you move it back slowly this does not happen but if you reach a certain speed the plunger shoots out the ball but you are still holding the plunger on your position.
Watch:
https://www.dropbox....r_BTTF.mp4?dl=0
I've noticed that too, admittedly I've only had my plunger installed since Sunday. I was kind of hoping at some point with the availability of the v2 there would be a standard way or default setting for the digital plunger.
#667
Posted 21 January 2015 - 06:15 PM
Maybe, just maybe, this could be solved if the program logic needs a higher distance when moving the plunger to interprete it as releasing the plunger for shooting ot the ball? At the moment it looks like a very very small distane is enough for releasing the plunger if the speed is high enough for this small distance. At least it looks like this way.
In my oppinion the higher the distance from the parking position, the higher the distance to trigger the plunger release.
In my oppinion the higher the distance from the parking position, the higher the distance to trigger the plunger release.
Edited by ClarkKent, 21 January 2015 - 06:45 PM.
#668
Posted 21 January 2015 - 06:54 PM
So just for the fun of it, i also just tried the default table @ full HD (1080p) with my office GTX Titan card (the "oldest" one (GK110 based, 14SMs)) and there i get 500FPS with the default table, 380 with 4xsuper sampling and 166 if in addition AO is enabled, too. So i guess that for the standard cab user all should be fine (as with VP10 you only need 60FPS vsync'ed), even when enabling both.
I mentioned it before, but to reiterate, 120 should really be the benchmark vs. 60 as more monitors and TVs will be coming out with true 120 hz refresh from a computer source. I already have a Korean model overclocked to 120 hz and the differnce from 60 hz is a huge jump in / smoothness / realism. At CES this year also a number of manufacturers have announced their plans for 27" montiors at 1440p and 120hz. So, I think we should be careful with what levels we are willing to have the FPS drop to as 1440p at 120 is simply beautiful (again my Catleap on my mini-cab does that and it's pure eye candy). And 1440p at 120hz is considerablly more demanding than 1080p at 120hz. Even just to consider 1080p still, 120hz is obviously double the performance requirement and typically VP has a been a good candidate for that since it usually had FPS to spare and now with the v-sync / physics separated can be nicely v-sync'd to any overclockable monitor settting (my previous monitor was an ASUS IPS overclocked a slight but still notieable amount of 75).
This may seem like only for computer monitors but there's a great monitor for FS / cabinet set-ups from Seiki that is 39" and can be tweaked to work without frame skipping at a real 120hz from your computer (hdmi overclocking / no display port needed). It is actually qutie cheap and here in Canada was on sale recently for only $359. I didn't keep mine only because I'm not doing a FS set-up but a hybrid view with the backglass on the same screen which ate into the resolution and how close I would be to the monitor showed the need for anti-aliasing quite easily. But for a FS cab, this monitor (a VA panel) would be excellent and 120hz was like butter.
Anyway, point being two things, we should aim higher than 60 hz and whoever hasn't tried VP at a real 120hz (no frame skipping - tests available on-line) are in for a real treat.
Edited by jimmyfingers, 21 January 2015 - 06:57 PM.
#669
Posted 21 January 2015 - 07:13 PM
Absolutely true. 120Hz makes a nice difference. But then one should also be willing to spend some bucks to buy a better gfxcard. ![]()
The TITAN i used for testing is still top notch, but by now the new Maxwell based cards are even better. If i find some time i can also do some tests on a GTX970 and M6000 for comparison.
And then there is also still room for performance improvement, as we only did rudimentary optimizations so far.
#671
Posted 21 January 2015 - 07:36 PM
I enjoy making tables too much.
i do have some originals id like to do and a bunch of old wips to mak we in vp10.
I just cant keep the pace of some of the new authors like fren and 85vette.
Getting slow in my old age
"it will all be ok in the end, if it's not ok, it's not the end"
Monster Bash VP10 WIP https://dl.dropboxus... (vpx)WIP15.vpx
#672
Posted 21 January 2015 - 07:56 PM
Absolutely true. 120Hz makes a nice difference. But then one should also be willing to spend some bucks to buy a better gfxcard.
The TITAN i used for testing is still top notch, but by now the new Maxwell based cards are even better. If i find some time i can also do some tests on a GTX970 and M6000 for comparison.
And then there is also still room for performance improvement, as we only did rudimentary optimizations so far.
Yah, but the headroom needed to jump from 60 to 120 is double and you often don't get that with card differences from simply going from the GTX x60s or x70s to the x80s and SLI seems to introduce other issues and have pros and cons to single / well built cards. I have a MSI GTX 760 that is overclocked to the hills for both memory and GPU clock speed (it's essentilaly equivalent to a 770) and still see how low the FPS on the current VP9 DX9 / physmod builds go to once using 1440p / 120hz and some FXAA (thank goodness for v-sync now working without physics issues). It's on a fairly current / beefy CPU / motherboard as well.
I hear yah on the need for good cards but the difference from some of these already arguably good speed / fat bus / high GB per second transfer cards and OC's aren't going to be too far behind the 980s and what not. Also, the Titan's price point for performance percent increase is a pretty classic dimminishing returns scenario.
One thing I do have to check into more deply is the variation of GPU power on VP since it's move to DX9. Previously the CPU power seemed to be more important / a bottleneck but of course that's changed with the DX9 port. To what degree the card makes the difference I'm not 100% certain but can still see some aspect by changing my crazy OC GPU timings and Memory timings back to default and observe the effective drop on a test VP table.
Hope some of the plans for rendering optimization allow us to really gain some stuff back so we can have all these options as head room will still be needed for future versions with the dynamic-all aspect but also by then we'll be getting a little more technology refresh / improvement.
It will be interesting to see in general the difficulties in the PC / gaming industry with the increase of resolutions happening much quicker / forecasted than that of what the GPU will be needed to do to keep up with it (4k gaming vs. 1080p obviously going to take 4 times the power and most graphic card upgrades might only give at best double the performance or 200% with most upgrades yielding less and the top of the line cards getting maxed out well before smooth 4k game play with AA and other game features enabled can be don).
At CES this year they had a demo 8k TV and some technology for actually getting 8k at 120hz (exciting but can't imagine what the graphics cards are going to have to do to stay anywhere near that pace of effective resolution factor increase vs. GPU performance factor increase).
Edited by jimmyfingers, 21 January 2015 - 07:58 PM.
#673
Posted 21 January 2015 - 09:32 PM
"This may seem like only for computer monitors but there's a great monitor for FS / cabinet set-ups from Seiki that is 39" and can be tweaked to work without frame skipping at a real 120hz from your computer (hdmi overclocking / no display port needed). It is actually qutie cheap and here in Canada was on sale recently for only $359."
What is the model# on this Seiki?
#674
Posted 21 January 2015 - 10:20 PM
Maybe I should make a separate thread about this vs. high-jacking this one too much but here are the quick points on the Seiki capable of 120hz:
- Motdel SE39UY04 (there is a new model that is the same number with a "-1" at the end so can't speak as to if it will work with that one the same way)
- 4k TV but only can do 4k at 30 hz
- Input lag bad and only 120hz with frame skipping until flashed with firmware from the 50" model "SE50UY04"
- After flashing with firmware input lag is great (low), scaling is a simple straight conversion of pixels width and height x 2 for 1080p looks just like a 1080p monitor (but big)
- Confirmed this personally using an nVidia card and custom resolutions
- VA panel with great black levels and supposedly a 6 ms response rate
Edited by jimmyfingers, 21 January 2015 - 10:21 PM.
#679
Posted 22 January 2015 - 06:52 AM
The problem is worse when you also check for updates whilst at work.
Oh oh... I have a problem...



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