1394 replies to this topic

[fuzzel]

Btw, I have a question. Is there a simple way to add something to just lock the camera?
Currently, the camera moves depending on what you create on the table, it constantly tries to frame everything, but this can be very annoying when you work with EMreels for example, because if you add new objects on your table or if you temporarily move away some objects from the table, the framing will change immediately and all your EMreels are off.

Camera? What camera do you mean?

[mikeh]

i guess my cabinets video card gtx 460 is out of date if i enable software FXAA my cabinets fps drops like a stone whenever the gi lights come on...
 
what am i missing out on with this turned off?

Got the same issue with mine, running a gtx 580

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[toxie]

Unfortunately software FXAA for some tables is extremely unusable. And performance mainly is limited from the CPU here, not the GPU. Also the transfer rate from GPU to CPU and vice versa (RAM speeds, etc) is very important!

 

I just did the FXAA implementation because it was easy to derive from the Stereo3D code, but it's extremely limited by the Directx7 madness. 

[thewool]

Been away from VP for a month or so, the recent dev work has been really sweet. I love that ball refelction and the tweaks to the editor are a blessing.

 

Copius amounts of beers/soft drinks to all involved!!!  

[DreamTrap]

Unfortunately software FXAA for some tables is extremely unusable. And performance mainly is limited from the CPU here, not the GPU. Also the transfer rate from GPU to CPU and vice versa (RAM speeds, etc) is very important!

 

I just did the FXAA implementation because it was easy to derive from the Stereo3D code, but it's extremely limited by the Directx7 madness. 

well i have phenom II 965 and 8gb ram and it still isn't enough?

 

what exactly does FXAA do anyway i don't really notice a difference with it on or off except the killer lagg

Edited by DreamTrap, 03 September 2013 - 02:33 PM.

[htamas]

what exactly does FXAA do anyway i don't really notice a difference with it on or off except the killer lagg

Then don't use it
It targets to do the same what hardware FXAA does on NVIDIA cards but via software instead of relying on the video card... it's supposed to help with getting rid of the jagged lines of some objects.
http://en.wikipedia....e_anti-aliasing

[tipoto]

Camera? What camera do you mean?

I mean the point of view of the game. When we adjust the settings in the section called "Colors & Formatting", we are actually adjusting a "camera". I guess you should have also access to the focal and stuffs like this in the code, and so maybe there is a way to disable the "auto-fit" of the camera

Actually, after a few tests, it's seems the camera is moving when we manipulate ramps. You can easily reproduce the issue, create a new table, press F5 to see the point of view, close the table then create a ramp far away beside the table, then press F5 again, you will see that the camera has changed a lot!

[fuzzel]

Ah ok well that is because if the player initializes the camera it goes through every element of the table and creates some kind of a bounding box. Based in this box VP centers the camera.

[tipoto]

Ah ok well that is because if the player initializes the camera it goes through every element of the table and creates some kind of a bounding box. Based in this box VP centers the camera.

Yes but it seems the bounding box is affected only by the ramps. Do you think it's possible to add a checkbox for example, to lock the camera?

I remember that I had to fight against this all the time when I was making T2CE. Also I guess when someone updates a table with new flasher effects, it maybe affect the camera and shift the EMReels a little bit (if the table has EMReels of course).

[jimmyfingers]

 

Arcade4, LoadedWeapon, and fuzzel:
 
The Region Optimization option was put in by Toxie to fix a bug introduced way back around rev 360 / 362 in which the only resolution / fix apparently was to include this option (to be cleared / deselcted) so that when AA is forced on, certain graphic glitches could be fixed.   Please do not remove this option as some of us still very much need it cleared and enjoy nvidia hardware based AA.  Seems to make a lot more sense simply if one does not like it checked off, to check it on rather than remove the enitre feature and leave some of us totally helpless to disable it for more glitch free AA views and settings we would like to use.

Yea thats fine by me just dident know there was a reason to turn it off. Tho you cant force AA anyways on alot of new tables and you cant run with RO off on some new tables so are you just turning these things on and off per table? Or does it work with xp and some old nvidia driver? I would love to be able to force AA but on windows 7 it just messes up to many tables.

 

Forced / hardware AA with Nvidia can totally work with all tables still to date and I use it as my standard (only using non-AA for editing and building).  However, what I assume you refer to with not working with the newer tables is the ramps with additive alpha enabled and with both RO and RU not enabled in the general VP settings in which you get horrible looking / opaque flashers.  But, that only occurs when the setting on the same alpha ramp flashers is disabled for the "Normal 3D Stereo. 

 

So the flasher anomalies can be resolved and AA / no RO or RU used by a quick edit of any table that has alpha ramp flasher objects with the "Normal 3D Stereo" selected and disabling for all.  It's only an issue if you're actually using a 3D monitor and I think there's not too many of us doing that, however, if you are I'm sure it's not for every table plus a version of the table could be kept for 3D purposes / better rendering and the options needed for hardware AA become irrelevant once 3D is used as there's a nice AA option for when 3D is active. 

 

All of my systems are Windows 7 as well so this should be consistent on other systems at least with nvidia cards.

[PilzTom]

I also use forced NVidia Hardware AA. But you still have the black lines in most tables. With Hardware FXAA instead of the 'real' AA modes this seems not to be. But Nvidia Hardware FXAA not works with VP under Win7.

Edited by PilzTom, 03 September 2013 - 06:12 PM.

[jimmyfingers]

I also use forced NVidia Hardware AA. But you still have the black lines in most tables. With Hardware FXAA instead of the 'real' AA modes this seems not to be. But Nvidia Hardware FXAA not works with VP under Win7.

Correct, only XP users can at this point benefit from functional hardware based FXAA. However, even as it is, FXAA seems to introduce some bluriness and lack of detail in the PF and plastic artwork. 

 

With regular hardware based / forced AA, black lines can also be mitigated to a large degree during the design stage.  In the latest Hurricane build I minimize the PF GI light object borders / black line aspect by drawing them through other light objects, which will occur on top and wipe out the black lines of the PF "light" bojects, as well as drawing the borders along naturally occuring borders / dark areas in the playfiled art itself.  Also, used this approach on Idianapolis 500.  It can be painstaking but helps the end result a gerat deal with respect to the black line nuance for people who enjoy the extra smoothness of forced hardware AA.

[Argo]

 

I also use forced NVidia Hardware AA. But you still have the black lines in most tables. With Hardware FXAA instead of the 'real' AA modes this seems not to be. But Nvidia Hardware FXAA not works with VP under Win7.

Correct, only XP users can at this point benefit from functional hardware based FXAA. However, even as it is, FXAA seems to introduce some bluriness and lack of detail in the PF and plastic artwork. 

 

With regular hardware based / forced AA, black lines can also be mitigated to a large degree during the design stage.  In the latest Hurricane build I minimize the PF GI light object borders / black line aspect by drawing them through other light objects, which will occur on top and wipe out the black lines of the PF "light" bojects, as well as drawing the borders along naturally occuring borders / dark areas in the playfiled art itself.  Also, used this approach on Idianapolis 500.  It can be painstaking but helps the end result a gerat deal with respect to the black line nuance for people who enjoy the extra smoothness of forced hardware AA.

 

The lack of detail should be solved by setting anisotropic filtering to 16x. However, the black lines are not the only problem with traditional AA, there are other graphical glitches like disappearing flippers, balls cut in half in kickercups etc...

Edited by Argo, 03 September 2013 - 07:27 PM.

[jimmyfingers]

 

 

I also use forced NVidia Hardware AA. But you still have the black lines in most tables. With Hardware FXAA instead of the 'real' AA modes this seems not to be. But Nvidia Hardware FXAA not works with VP under Win7.

Correct, only XP users can at this point benefit from functional hardware based FXAA. However, even as it is, FXAA seems to introduce some bluriness and lack of detail in the PF and plastic artwork. 

 

With regular hardware based / forced AA, black lines can also be mitigated to a large degree during the design stage.  In the latest Hurricane build I minimize the PF GI light object borders / black line aspect by drawing them through other light objects, which will occur on top and wipe out the black lines of the PF "light" bojects, as well as drawing the borders along naturally occuring borders / dark areas in the playfiled art itself.  Also, used this approach on Idianapolis 500.  It can be painstaking but helps the end result a gerat deal with respect to the black line nuance for people who enjoy the extra smoothness of forced hardware AA.

 

The lack of detail should be solved by setting anisotropic filtering to 16x. However, the black lines are not the only problem with traditional AA, there are other graphical glitches like disappearing flippers, balls cut in half in kickercups etc...

 

Yes, the kicker cup is another one but also can be resolved with raising the kicker slightly.  However, I've never experienced any disappearing flippers on any of my Windows 7 / nVidia rigs.  Also, I set anisotropic filtering to 8x as a standard and have tried 16x specifically when FXAA was attempted (on a dual boot / Windows XP) and it was still blurrier than without FXAA on or when using traditional AA (forced anisotropic filtering for VP in general helps "buriness" at least in some cases even when no AA method is used).

[Slydog43]

Jimmyfingers, Can you post your settings in your nvidia control panel please.  I have played around with them so many times, just to turn off AA as I had lines, missing flippers, etc on win7x64.  Thanks

[htamas]

The lines are IMO less of an issue than the mentioned problems with balls disappearing completely in kicker cups (like in Nitro Ground Shaker, for instance) and balls being cut in half.
This is the main reason I don't use forced AA, although I'd like to

[jimmyfingers]

The lines are IMO less of an issue than the mentioned problems with balls disappearing completely in kicker cups (like in Nitro Ground Shaker, for instance) and balls being cut in half.
This is the main reason I don't use forced AA, although I'd like to

It's quite easy to fix and just define / up the ball kicker surface height by as little as 8 units and the problem should go away (15 max.) - you have to create a wall with the height you want or us an existing one if available (often they are named 5h, 15h, etc.). This is for at least the half ball issue.  On tables with only a couple kickers / saucers, it's really quite easy and quick to do.

Jimmyfingers, Can you post your settings in your nvidia control panel please.  I have played around with them so many times, just to turn off AA as I had lines, missing flippers, etc on win7x64.  Thanks

There is an existing thread all about this and with the settings I use as well as other people's feedback on the AA / FXAA aspects in general which is a decent reference.  It's probably better to follow up further there if needed as to not let this VP build / bug thread get too off topic. 

 

http://www.vpforums....ic=20801&page=1

Edited by jimmyfingers, 03 September 2013 - 08:55 PM.

[DreamTrap]

i dont see any difference with FXAA on or off and since it doesn't work with win 7 64x than off it stays

[LoadedWeapon]

i dont see any difference with FXAA on or off and since it doesn't work with win 7 64x than off it stays

yea it dont work onwith 7 64bit and AA is super buggy but I agree with jimmy we need to talk about that in another thread. VP is moving forward and im sure there will be alot more changes. I want to thank the dev team for everything they have done so far I have only been around sense vp9 and have seen a ton of changes and improvements to vp and I cant wait to see where it goes from here . Thanks to everyone involved! Keep up the great work it is greatly appreciated!

[ICPjuggla]

So I noticed today that somewhere between rev628 and 644 exporting a blue print for a specific layer is gone.

It was really nice to export a blue print having (lets say all plastics on layer 2 selected) then exporting a blue print and only that layer would export. Now it's back to exporting all layers at once. Can we get that fixed?, as it made it really nice to be able to export the layer selected.. :-) hope this makes sense, if not please PM me fuzzel... :-)

p.s. rev 628 was fine so I guess somewhere after that rev. it was lost.

Edited by ICPjuggla, 04 September 2013 - 04:47 AM.