975 replies to this topic

[mjr]

Well, you seem to be having some kind of USB connection failure, given the flash pattern you're seeing.  It appears that it's connecting and then disconnecting:  the red flashes mean that the connection was lost, and you have to have a connection in the first place before it can be lost.  When it goes back to yellow, that means the device rebooted itself after timing out on retry attempts in "lost" (red) mode.  If it stays in yellow mode forever at that point, it means that it can't re-establish a connection.

 

You said that you could never get past "Step 5: Plug in the Joystick Port".  Do you mean you never got past this, ever, or that you once did but can't get past it now?  The question is whether something changed when you did the VP button experiment or if it was always this way.  If it's a change in behavior, maybe something got damaged.  If it's been consistent all along, it might be a USB incompatibility with your PC motherboard - those were all too common in the early days of this software, because the original mbed USB code was pretty inflexible about the protocol.  It's largely the opposite now - incompatibilities have gotten extremely rare - but there are enough motherboards out there that it can probably still happen.  The standard remedy for USB problems is to (a) try a different port, and then (b) try an outboard USB hub.

[JLPicard001]

I have two windows 7 machines With different hardware, they both are reacting the same.  It's odd through after I left it set for awhile it'll again become a active for a few seconds as described flashing quick pairs of red.

 

I don't recollect ever seeing what happens after step 5. 

 

I didn't screw the pooch by using 13 & 14 j9 did I?

Edited by JLPicard001, 02 June 2018 - 12:08 PM.

[mjr]

I have two windows 7 machines With different hardware, they both are reacting the same.  

 

That's a good sign that whatever's wrong is with the board itself, then.

 

 

I didn't screw the pooch by using 13 & 14 j9 did I?

 

Just to make sure we're talking about the same thing, what did you connect them to?

 

If the answer is "each other and nothing else, never anything else", you're fine.  That's what you're supposed to do.

 

If the answer is something like "the power supply", that might be the source of some damage.

 

Whatever's wrong, you obviously didn't kill the whole board, since the diagnostic lights mean that the software is running and is in a perfectly good state.  That perfectly good state just happens to be "I'm trying to connect to USB and I'm not getting any reply from the PC".  There are all sorts of things that can cause that, from really basic stuff like no cable connected to more complicated issues like USB driver incompatibilities.  

 

 

It seems to me that the most useful piece of information to focus on here is the before-and-after aspect.  The experiment with VP seems critical here.  We know that you were able to connect to USB before the VP experiment, because you saw button 8 working in the joystick setup control panel.  If USB hadn't been working then, you wouldn't have even been able to open that control panel, let alone see the button light up.  And it appears that you can't connect to USB at all any more.

 

So what changed between before and after?

 

1.  Something changed on the PC side software-wise - unlikely since you're seeing the same thing on two PCs

 

2. Something changed in software on the KL25Z - seems unlikely, since you said you reinstalled at least once since it stopped working, without any change in behavior, and because as far as I understand you've never even once managed to run the Settings page in the Config Tool to change any settings

 

3.  The board hardware got damaged - possible, but whatever's wrong apparently didn't affect the CPU since you're still seeing normal diagnostic flashes that say that the software is running correctly

 

So I'm at a bit of a loss for how to debug this.  Did you really carefully go back and inspect the soldering work for the pin headers to make sure there aren't any shorted pads?

[JLPicard001]

 

Just to make sure we're talking about the same thing, what did you connect them to?

 

I connected the button NO and COM between J9 pins 13 and 14.  I made sure I knew which was which by ohming out the switch prior.

 

 

Did you really carefully go back and inspect the soldering work for the pin headers to make sure there aren't any shorted pads?

 

I used some magnifying specs to make sure.  I was trained micro/mini soldering tech while in the Navy, but hell that was two decades ago, but I still understand the pitfalls to faulty soldering.  If anything, a few of my fillets were a bit on the light side, but perfectly connected otherwise.  I also ran a wooden toothpick between every pad to make sure.  My near-sight isn't the greatest anymore, but I have magnifier specs.

 

I figure this is board is a loss for what I need it for and ordered another, but now I am gun-shy. 

After sitting overnight, reattaching to my PC, I first get the "Hardware Found" notification, and the KL25Z gave a 'Green then Yellow' flash which is good, but then goes to the quick red flashing as described, then after about three pairs of these red flashes, defaults to the flashing yellow mode as described. 

 

Any components I could locate and check on the KL25Z?  I have an OScope and a couple different DVM's but that's it as far as my test equipment goes.  As I said, as far as I am concerned at this point it's a loss, but my curiosity factor has risen.  And I certainly don't want to duplicate my error. 

 

Hell for all I know it was an ESD thing, but hard to imagine that since it was attached to my PC at that point

Edited by JLPicard001, 02 June 2018 - 09:16 PM.

[mjr]

 

Just to make sure we're talking about the same thing, what did you connect them to?

 

I connected the button NO and COM between J9 pins 13 and 14.  I made sure I knew which was which by ohming out the switch prior.

 

That sounds like it should be totally fine.  

 

 

 

Did you really carefully go back and inspect the soldering work for the pin headers to make sure there aren't any shorted pads?

 

I used some magnifying specs to make sure.  I was trained micro/mini soldering tech while in the Navy, but hell that was two decades ago, but I still understand the pitfalls to faulty soldering.

 

Okay, I always figure it's worth double-checking, but it sounds like that's a red herring.

 

I really don't what it could be - it seems like we've ruled out everything I can think of.  To all appearances, the board is running, the software is running, and it just can't establish a USB connection that lasts more than a fraction of a second.  

 

One more grasp at a straw:  maybe try a different USB cable?  USB seems to be where the problem is, and you've more or less ruled out PC-side incompatibilities with the testing on a separate machine with the same results, so that doesn't leave many possibilities.  It seems like it's got to be either the KL25Z hardware, or the cable.  The hardware doesn't seem to be outright bricked given that it's (apparently) happily running the software, so maybe it's just a faulty cable.  It could also just be that your KL25Z is flaky and it didn't start acting up immediately, but I can't say I've heard from anyone else with the slightest hint of a problem like that.  Not to say that it can't happen, it just seems to be unlikely judging by past experience.

Edited by mjr, 02 June 2018 - 09:23 PM.

[JLPicard001]

Thanks for you time, I imagine you are a pretty busy guy. 

 

I've tried three cables, all same.  It has to be the card.  After resting for a bit and reattaching it to my pinball machine it'll see it briefly as I described and the KL25Z will go through that sequence.  Then it stays on the blinking yellows.  If I immediately remove it to the 2nd machine, it remains blinking yellow.  So whatever fault there is will dissipate (bad cap??) after a bit and then on that 2nd machine the card will go through the same sequence: yellow green yellow green double quick red blinks twice, then the blinking yellows. 

I have an old laptop with XP on it, maybe I'll try it tomorrow to see how it acts there.

[mjr]

I've tried three cables, all same.  It has to be the card.  After resting for a bit and reattaching it to my pinball machine it'll see it briefly as I described and the KL25Z will go through that sequence.  Then it stays on the blinking yellows.  If I immediately remove it to the 2nd machine, it remains blinking yellow.  So whatever fault there is will dissipate (bad cap??) after a bit and then on that 2nd machine the card will go through the same sequence: yellow green yellow green double quick red blinks twice, then the blinking yellows. 

 

That time-dependent behavior is definitely weird.  In my experience there's never any delay with power cycle resets - my boards have always reset instantly when unplugged and re-plugged.  So you might well be onto something with the idea that there's a bad part in there somewhere.  Maybe whatever's keeping it from resetting immediately on unplugging is also making it reset randomly while it's powered.  I don't think there's much you can do about a bad board other than ask Mouser for a refund - not worth trying to track down the defect for a $12 board made of microscopic surface-mount parts.

[JLPicard001]

On well the laptop acted same but I did notice in a fleeting moment in Devices it showed up initially as pinscape controller.  Frickin weird.

[JLPicard001]

Got a new KL25Z today.  Firmware did not need flashed according to Pinscape, and using Config Tool I got Pinscape installed.  The board is showing up with all my settings options.  I stopped there.  Now I'd like to return to where I left off, hooking up a single flipper button.  NO and COM between J9 pins 13 and 14 for a micro-switch as a flipper button are ok right?

[marc9]

Got a new KL25Z today.  Firmware did not need flashed according to Pinscape, and using Config Tool I got Pinscape installed.  The board is showing up with all my settings options.  I stopped there.  Now I'd like to return to where I left off, hooking up a single flipper button.  NO and COM between J9 pins 13 and 14 for a micro-switch as a flipper button are ok right?

I used the scheme from page 24 of the Pinscape pdf manual for the push and flipper buttons.

https://os.mbed.com/...er_20150831.pdf

 

 

Here is another scheme: http://www.dallasliv...-assignment.jpg

[mjr]

Got a new KL25Z today.  Firmware did not need flashed according to Pinscape, and using Config Tool I got Pinscape installed.  The board is showing up with all my settings options.  I stopped there.  Now I'd like to return to where I left off, hooking up a single flipper button.  NO and COM between J9 pins 13 and 14 for a micro-switch as a flipper button are ok right?

 

Yes, that looks right.

[legin]

I am just about to start building the main and output boards.

I am having a little bit of trouble understanding which resistor to use on the main board for R5.  It says see note 4 which reads:

Note 4: This resistor sets the current limit for the RGB flipper button LED outputs. Select a resistor according to the forward current of your LEDs. If you're using Lightmite boards with two RGB LEDs, set this for 60mA.

• 10mA → 4K ohm resistor
• 20mA → 2.2K
• 30mA → 1.3K
• 40mA → 1K
• 50mA → 780 ohms
• 60mA → 680 ohms (use for Lightmites)

I have no LED's in my flipper buttons but I do have led's in 5 other buttons - launch, start, extra ball, exit and coin in.  They are all 12V led's.  Are these anything to do with R5?

[mjr]

I am having a little bit of trouble understanding which resistor to use on the main board for R5.  It says see note 4 which reads:

...

I have no LED's in my flipper buttons but I do have led's in 5 other buttons - launch, start, extra ball, exit and coin in.  They are all 12V led's.  Are these anything to do with R5?

 

You might be able to use the small LED outputs for those button lamps.  Two things you need to know to decide:

 

1.  Do the button LEDs have built-in resistors?  Yes means they're designed so that you simply wire them directly to a 12V power supply; No means you're supposed to add your own external resistors in the wiring?

 

2.  What's the current (mA) rating on those LEDs?

 

Here's your decision matrix based on those two questions:

 

1=YES, 2=60mA or less:  you can use the small LED outputs with the button lamps.  Use 680 ohms for R5.  The button lights provide their own current limitation, so you can set R5 to the max current for flexibility if you want to add other devices on these outputs in the future.

 

1=NO, 2=60mA or less:  you can use the small LED outputs with the button lamps.  Choose R5 using the table you referenced, using the mA value listed in the table that's closest to the button light mA rating.

 

1=Either, 2=more than 60mA:  you can't use these button lamps with the small LED outputs.  Since you're not using flipper button lights, you probably don't have anything else to connect to these outputs, so you'll want to just reserve them for future use in case you add flipper button lights later.  Use 680 ohms for R5 for maximum flexibility (the highest current limit) in the future.

[legin]

 

I am having a little bit of trouble understanding which resistor to use on the main board for R5.  It says see note 4 which reads:

...

I have no LED's in my flipper buttons but I do have led's in 5 other buttons - launch, start, extra ball, exit and coin in.  They are all 12V led's.  Are these anything to do with R5?

 

You might be able to use the small LED outputs for those button lamps.  Two things you need to know to decide:

 

1.  Do the button LEDs have built-in resistors?  Yes means they're designed so that you simply wire them directly to a 12V power supply; No means you're supposed to add your own external resistors in the wiring?

 

2.  What's the current (mA) rating on those LEDs?

 

Here's your decision matrix based on those two questions:

 

1=YES, 2=60mA or less:  you can use the small LED outputs with the button lamps.  Use 680 ohms for R5.  The button lights provide their own current limitation, so you can set R5 to the max current for flexibility if you want to add other devices on these outputs in the future.

 

1=NO, 2=60mA or less:  you can use the small LED outputs with the button lamps.  Choose R5 using the table you referenced, using the mA value listed in the table that's closest to the button light mA rating.

 

1=Either, 2=more than 60mA:  you can't use these button lamps with the small LED outputs.  Since you're not using flipper button lights, you probably don't have anything else to connect to these outputs, so you'll want to just reserve them for future use in case you add flipper button lights later.  Use 680 ohms for R5 for maximum flexibility (the highest current limit) in the future.

 

 

Thanks for the reply mjr.

 

I am not sure if they have a built in resistor, I am assuming they do.  I put one of the LED's straight across 12v with my amp meter and they draw 20mA each.  

Am I meant to choose the resistor according to the current draw of 1 led or the total current draw? ie 5 leds would draw 100mA.

[mjr]

I am not sure if they have a built in resistor, I am assuming they do.  I put one of the LED's straight across 12v with my amp meter and they draw 20mA each.  

 

Yep, they definitely have resistors, then.  If you connected an LED without a resistor directly to the power supply like that, something would go up in smoke, because an LED with no resistor is basically like a piece of wire - it would have shorted out the power supply and drawn unlimited current (until something overheated).

 

 

Am I meant to choose the resistor according to the current draw of 1 led or the total current draw? ie 5 leds would draw 100mA.

 

One LED.  The current limit programmed by R5 is per output.

 

And because your LEDs have resistors built-in, you can use the 680 ohm option for greater flexibility in the future.

[legin]

Awesome.  Thanks mjr.  I am sure everyone appreciates all the effort you go to in this forum.

Im looking forward to getting your Pinscape creation all soldered up and running.

[JLPicard001]

Somehow one of the button inputs to my KL25Z seems to be stuck in the ON position even with nothing connected to that port.  Only thing connected is the usb.  It was working fine earlier.  Any suggestions as to how to unstick it?  It doesn't ohm out as being on, about 1.1Mohms.

[mjr]

Somehow one of the button inputs to my KL25Z seems to be stuck in the ON position even with nothing connected to that port.  Only thing connected is the usb.  It was working fine earlier.  Any suggestions as to how to unstick it?  It doesn't ohm out as being on, about 1.1Mohms.

 

I assume you've looked at it in the config tool to verify that the low-level port is reading as on, and that the button is configured for the pin you think it is.  If not, you should verify that everything's set up in the software correctly - check the pin displayed in the diagram in the config tool against the physical pin you're testing, and check that the config tool is showing the port as stuck on.

 

At the hardware level, ON means "connected to ground".  So what you want to test is continuity between the button pin and any of the ground pins.  If that's what you already tested and it's the 1.1 M ohm you're talking about, that actually might be the short, even though it seems like a high resistance for ordinary purposes.  Open ports really should read a lot higher than that - I read about 9-10 M ohm on random open ports on mine.  If you did any soldering to attach pin headers to the board, maybe check for any tiny bridges that might be connecting adjacent pins.  Or if you've connected any wires (even in the past), check for any little stray filaments.

[JLPicard001]

I did ohm to gnd l am thinking I have an esd problem in the room I have this laid out in.  The carpet the tv and pc is on is polyester and I bet thats what happened to the first Kl25z.  Config tool shows always on.

[Brer Frog]

I just wired up the KL25Z in my mini-cab and it works great. Thanks for all your hard work on Pinscape.

 

I was playing VPX tables & thought about slightly increasing the gain from the default 100. "The Pinscape Controller, A How-To Guide" states to set the gain to 1000. That seemed like quite a bit increase from 100, so I tried 500 which moves the ball a lot when nudged.

 

Perhaps the settings for X-Max & Y-Max needed to be adjusted also. I searched but so far can't find information on these settings. What do the Max settings control & should they be changed?

 

Thanks again for Pinscape.