59 replies to this topic

[BarryS]

You can switch HUD DMD off in service mode.

Stupid question.. how do I go into service mode?

[Sebek74]

You can switch HUD DMD off in service mode.

Stupid question.. how do I go into service mode?

The service mode key is set by FP settings. By default is S key.

[davi]

Thx creator for this nice flipper:)

[Sebek74]

Thx creator for this nice flipper:)

You are welcomed. Please also write some comment at FPR.

[Switch0r]

Since i update my ATI driver to 10.10d the table wont load (crashes future pinball), it worked before.
Other tables are working normal

[Sebek74]

Since i update my ATI driver to 10.10d the table wont load (crashes future pinball), it worked before.
Other tables are working normal

Did you switch off images loading in table editor? That may help to save gfx memory.

[one billion daleks]

REVIEW

For anyone examining this table, I think they'd agree that it's a very very impressive example of what can be accomplished with the Future Pinball game engine, for it is crammed full to overflowing with all sorts of elaborate sound and light effects, and in that respect it's an extraordinary coding achievement by the authors. But for me it's also very much a case of overkill, of being 'way too much of a good thing', and indicates a fundamental failure by the authors to recognise that sometimes, 'less is more'. For Wild West is more like five pinball tables all rolled into one ...

For Wild West crosses a boundary where really, it has ceased to be a pinball table, and has instead become a weird kind of hybrid somewhere between a video game and a poker machine, a hybrid that only by happenstance is presented in the guise of a pinball table. Which is to say that whilst Wild West may nominally look and feel like a pinball table, when it comes down to it - I don't think it is, not really.

The indications that Wild West is going to be a little *ahem* 'different' from more conventional tables, start from the moment you load the table file into Future Pinball. For this is a table so chock full of graphics, sound effects, plus a whole suite of mini-games for the Dot Matrix Display (DMD), that it takes a very long time to load, to the point that you may suspect that it has a bug in it that has caused Future Pinball to 'hang'. But no, if you wait long enough, the table will indeed eventually load. And that circumstance is then repeated again when you press <F5> Play ... for where other tables typically load in maybe 20-30 seconds, Wild West will take 2-3 minutes, which seems like an eternity.

Once it finally loads, it turns out that Wild West is by default a very 'friendly' table to play ... it's next-to-impossible to lose a ball, and as if that wasn't enough, then incredibly, there's even a 'Continuous Play' option in the Service Menu, which allows a player to play indefinitely, hour after hour after hour if you wanted to, with the same ball! The only problem with that concept I found (apart from making the table mindlessly dull to play, because it dispenses with a fundamental goal of pinball - conserving balls), is that once multi-ball is activated, you're then stuck with three balls to play with indefinitely instead of just the one, and as that becomes over-whelming very quickly the only way out is to tilt.

There's so much 'stuff' clamouring for your attention on this table that it's very difficult to keep track of what you're trying to accomplish. Though in point of fact, I don't think there are actually any predefined objectives in Wild West as such - there's no underlying 'narrative' to provide a sense of direction or purpose to proceedings, the player is not offered any sense of being propelled toward some destination. Instead, the table just comes across as a collection of individual mini-games that all just happen to co-exist in the same space, with only the loosest of associations, that being the Wild West theme.

So whilst there are a lot of genuinely innovative ideas in the sights and sounds department here, in the end that's all it amounts to really - a collection of very clever gee-whizz-bang gimmicks, all crammed into the small confines of a pinball table. And whilst all this flashy paraphernalia indeed convinces me of the creativity of the authors, it also tells me that their intention here is more to impress, than it is to challenge or entertain. And OK - credit where it's due - in purely razzle-dazzle terms they easily deserve a rating of ten. But from the perspective of an end-user, as a comprehensible pinball table designed solely with the player in mind, then for me Wild West is a complete Fail. It's all style, and no substance.

Overall, I found that playing Wild West was a bit like say, going to Las Vegas and playing a dozen poker machines all at the same time ... it might be an interesting notion perhaps, and would certainly be a novel approach to playing the pokies, but in the end it probably won't be a terribly satisfying one.

Edit: correct minor typo.

Edited by one billion daleks, 09 January 2011 - 02:03 AM.

[TheNalex]

[EDIT] I haven't read carrefully the review...[/EDIT]

For me, this table is one of the "major" original (yes it's a recreation, but so much effort was put into it that it can be considered as an original) table available in Future Pinball (at the same level of details and playability as all the blindmankind, Slamt1lt or Steve tables). I do not really understand why "one billion dalek" guy said that's there're no real goal in this table. After all, in every pinball, the only goal is to achieve the best possible score. There's so mush possibility in this table (get the balls in "prison", go to the casino, etc. plus the night duel - a really great idea) that you can't be bored fast... (as some other table obviously does after one or two games).
I keep playing this one on a regular basis.

Thank you Sebek, Jerry and slash for the wonderful time I have, me and my children, playing this beauty!
Hope something new is comming

Edited by TheNalex, 09 January 2011 - 09:43 PM.

[BibleTalker]

But for me it's also very much a case of overkill

I have played Psycho Pinball for years, all four tables and I along with countless others have enjoyed all those 'extras'. As I read your long drawn out rant I am struck by the suspicion that you are a very jealous person. I did not read past the forth paragraph of your rant. The original game is loaded with little games within each table. I am willing to bet that you have created nothing that has enjoyed the longitivity and accolades of fans that Psycho Pinball has enjoyed over the years. Night Duel is an extra feature; if you do not like it, genius that you are, why not simply go to the script and change the score so you never reach it? You must be the best pinball player of all time if you can play Wild West and never lose the first ball. Did the WHO write that song about you? I have a really crummy computer, but I guess it is better than yours because I just loaded Psycho Pinball Wild West and it took all of 33 seconds to load up the table and ready for play. If you are going to be the Pinball Table Judge Guru perhaps you should invest in a better computer? I really enjoy playing this table. I also enjoy playing the original. Thanks to everyone who spent the time to bring this classic pinball table to FP.
BT

[Sebek74]

One billion dalek

Welcome to the forum. I've seen it's your first post and you are have been reading post for a very short while. On the other hand your opinions are so detailed so for a second I thought that you are involved into FP community longer, much longer that you appeared to be, you can even could be banned from there

You can be surprised but I'm not angry at your opinion - I would even say that I'm happy someone looked at the table from another side. That opens the possibility to disscuss that more. Your opinion is far more useful that simple "That's realy good table. Thank you."

First about the purpose of the creation.
For sure we want to impress anyone! Noone said we didn't want to. We wanted to bring the table to the perfection as much as possible. Details of gfx (changed several times in some places), mastering the rules (has anybody realized that score and bonus points are equal to the original?), introducing new techniques (f.e. placard, secondary surface image, DMD font based animations), maintain the code proffesional object oriented.
But there is one more thing that you didn't mention or even could not imagine. We wanted to create the table that we want to play on our own. Me and Jerry loves that table and still play very often, because it's made the way WE liked. It's most important for us. If someone can use it with the same passion - that's fine. If not... who cares?

About 'less is more'. For Wild West is more like five pinball tables all rolled into one ...
That's really funny because that's Jerry says all the time: "less is more". I can show you more (even very good) tables that flash like Christmas tree with no big sense. I'm the fan of flashing tables full of stuff, it brings me memories of the modern original tables full of flashers.
Is that 5 tables in one? I bet... 50 times comparing to many tables created on the week of two. I spent almost the year working afterwork evenings refusing myself many pleasures, even time that I should spend with my new born son. It's my passion. If I can create 5 tables that noone will remember, I choose creation of the one only that stays in memory for quite long.

For Wild West crosses a boundary where really, it has ceased to be a pinball table, and has instead become a weird kind of hybrid somewhere between a video game and a poker machine, a hybrid that only by happenstance is presented in the guise of a pinball table.
You don't like video modes. How may FP tables has video mode included? One more?
That table is the recreation of original one. The video modes are included into PC version. I assume that you can find more people that could be dissapointed if we don't include that feature instead of recreating that.

Wild West will take 2-3 minutes, which seems like an eternity.
Noone is perfect. I don't have such fast computer as BT has. My C2D & 2GB RAM machine loads Wild West in 42 seconds. Sorry for incovenience. Maybe your machine is obsolete - that also makes the table too easy to play because FP plays that table too slow

it's next-to-impossible to lose a ball, and as if that wasn't enough
What is your highscore? Please report. If you bet me I bet you again. If not... I'll buy you a beer. Are you chicken? I challenge you.
I agree that 'Continuous Play' should not work in multiball mode. Thank's for tip.

There's so much 'stuff' clamouring for your attention on this table that it's very difficult to keep track of what you're trying to accomplish.
What are you saying dude? The rules are clear if you play longer. I assume you can feel lost at the beginning because of amount of the modes but attract mode explain the rules in details. All current achievements like balls locked, letters spelled, bonus enabled are indicated. No real table target? Hm... if it's possible if FP to blow your monitor at the end of the game, I can ensure we would include that!
And again... that's the original rules (instead of bonus multiplier, hold/score/double bonus and Night Duel mode).


At the and I must make you sad again - we are going to release another "overkill" table. I hope you will write the review again!

Edited by Sebek74, 09 January 2011 - 11:22 PM.

[one billion daleks]

Sebek74

Thanks for your thoughtful response to my review

Yes, my feeling is that if you've worked so darned hard for so long on creating a magnificent table like Wild West, then the least I can do in return is spend a little time trying to give you some meaningful feedback about it, which I believe is far more useful to you than just some banal platitude.

And even though some of the things I say may ruffle a few feathers, they are nevertheless sincerely-held and carefully-considered opinions - not intended to offend, but simply observations intended as a constructive critique - from just one person's point-of-view. So I was pleased to see you took my comments and understood them in the spirit they were intended!

As Pinball News says at http://www.pinballne...jerseyjack.html "... you have to make a product your customers like, not one you like." And whilst that's true up to a point, it's also fair to say that 'you can't please all the people all the time' (ha ha!). So there will always be a variety of opinions about any individual table - some favourable, some less so - just like with movie and music reviews. And it's good to see that you are mature enough to understand that.

As it happens, I have a whole heap of table reviews on my hard drive, including your Billion Dollar Gameshow, Beat-Box and Ignition. So maybe I will dig them out, polish them up, and post them to provide some more feedback, just from one player's point-of-view of course!

And er, I might revisit Wild West and post a hi-score ... I'll have to think about that!

OK then,
All The Best!

[The Loafer]

It is a good review. I do find it odd though that your big criticism (poker comment) implies any modern era DMD would get a negative review then, since they all have modes that have absolutely nothing to do with pinball. Its true its hard to know a table without loading it first, but I can't help but think of a movie critic who loves dramas, reviewing an action movie. Its true, sometimes it's "know your audience" but it's also true that sometimes, it's "play a game more along the lines of your taste"

I agree with one of the comments, you need to check your PC because 2-3 minutes is just not the case on most FP users machines (due to the fairly high PC requirements, I would think most have pretty good pc's that play FP regularly).

Really well written review, are you a writer by profession?

[one billion daleks]

Thanks for your comments The Loafer - your review of my review, as it were . As Sebek74 indicates in his post, it's always interesting to compare notes, and hear what other people think about someone else's creative endeavours. And even though opinions will vary, I think any well-developed critique is always useful to a developer as a potential source of ideas for enhancements to their products.

I take your point about a drama critic reviewing an action movie! But as you recognise, unlike movies, it's hard to know what you're getting with a pinball, at least until you've got it 'out of the box' and played it. I don't have a problem with DMDs though, in fact one of my favourite pinballs is Dr.Who, and that makes extensive use of mini-games played on a DMD.

I must admit I prefer a pinball with a clearly-defined linear 'narrative', and that is something I found lacking with Wild West. TheNalex said in his post that "in every pinball, the only goal is to achieve the best possible score", which I found to be rather odd statement, as in my view there is so much more to pinball than just maximising your score. A pinball with a storyline that evolves as you progress (what I believe is known as 'Deep Rules') is far more immersive and challenging than simply earning the highest score - which I find gets rather dull quite quickly - and even the most primitive poolhall simulation for example, will offer more than just a hi-score function, in that you aim to pot all the balls too! And the FP demo table Sci-Fi Classic is another example of a table with an underlying 'story' to it, that for me enriches gameplay no end, and is what keeps me coming back for more. But I couldn't discern any real 'storyline' to Wild West, which is what disappointed me most about that table, even though in every other respect it's a very fine piece of work.

I'm not sure why Wild West takes so long to load on my PC, other tables (Road Girls for example) load very quickly. For whilst my PC isn't state-of-the-art, it isn't steam-powered either , being a 3 Ghz Pentium 4 with 1 Gb of RAM and an NVIDIA GeForce 6800 with 256 Mb of VRAM, and that enables me to play other tables just fine, with all the settings on 'High'. It's a bit of a mystery I guess!

And no, I'm not a 'professional' writer - by trade I'm an audio software developer - but I have been 'moonlighting' for several years now as a freelance writer, writing reviews for software and music - oh, and the odd movie too! It's just a sideline that gives my mind a break from the sometimes arcane details of digital audio processing!

[The Loafer]

Long loading times: I think Wild West hits the FP limit for allowable table objects (something like that) so I assume the reason why it takes so long is probably ram related, either system or GPU, so there must be a lot of memory swapping going on. Just a guess.

I understand your point on movie/pinball reviews, but I think there was enough description on this table that most would have known of these modes before downloading but it doesn't matter anyway, different strokes for different folks and all that. There are some nice tables out there that I've played and I went "huh?".

[Zettaupload]

Hi Sebek74,

First, thanks you very much for this table, because it's really amazing!!! For me, that's simply the best table of all the FP tables;-)

Then, I've just a technical game question : I manage to turn the gold bullion's lights corresponding to cards, water ramp and bank ramp, but I don't manage to turn the light corresponding to the rodeo ramp. However, the game rules stipulate that rodeo ramp is part of the procedure to goldrush access. There must be something I misunderstood?

Anyway, congratulation for your huge talent;-)

François

[Zettaupload]

PS : I have maybe found the solution :
- First, turn on the 3 lights corresponding to cards, water ramp and bank ramp
- Then, take once time the horseshoes ramp in the counterclockwise direction, and pursue taking rodeo ramp to turn on 4th light of gold bullion
- Finally, take again the horseshoes ramp in the counterclockwise direction, to activate the goldrush mode.

Is it OK ?-)

[Sebek74]

PS : I have maybe found the solution :
- First, turn on the 3 lights corresponding to cards, water ramp and bank ramp
- Then, take once time the horseshoes ramp in the counterclockwise direction, and pursue taking rodeo ramp to turn on 4th light of gold bullion
- Finally, take again the horseshoes ramp in the counterclockwise direction, to activate the goldrush mode.

Is it OK ?-)

Hi

First for all: thank's for playing WW and interesting in deeper rules of the table.
To start GOLDRUSH mode you need to light all gold letters then take horseshoe ramp in counterwise direction. Now you discovered how to light 3 of letters: all cards, bank ramp and water ramp. To light the last one you need to take the rodeo ramp but you need to raise train bonus up to 250k. But beware: bonus can be raised only when white train arrow is blinking for several seconds after ball is released from horseshoe kicker! Moreover you will lose all your train bonus (it will drop down to the 10k) everytime you miss the rodeo passage when ball is released from there. With some experience is quite easy to take the rodeo: just observe the kicker blinking bulb - it starts blinkning 0,5s before the ball is kicked out!
All rules are taken from original game but some of them has been altered. This also happened that time. In original PC/SNES version you need to take rodeo just when ball is released: no delays, no second try. In our version you have some time to do it before the train arrow stops blinking. The time of blinking depends on difficulty level. Lowest difficulty allows you to take a second change to kick back the ball with right flipper to the upper kicker and take a second try if you are quick enough!

I will mistery reveal some mistery: we just started to work on Trick or Treat. Much work to do before us to keep WW level...

[Zettaupload]

PS : I have maybe found the solution :
- First, turn on the 3 lights corresponding to cards, water ramp and bank ramp
- Then, take once time the horseshoes ramp in the counterclockwise direction, and pursue taking rodeo ramp to turn on 4th light of gold bullion
- Finally, take again the horseshoes ramp in the counterclockwise direction, to activate the goldrush mode.

Is it OK ?-)

Hi

First for all: thank's for playing WW and interesting in deeper rules of the table.
To start GOLDRUSH mode you need to light all gold letters then take horseshoe ramp in counterwise direction. Now you discovered how to light 3 of letters: all cards, bank ramp and water ramp. To light the last one you need to take the rodeo ramp but you need to raise train bonus up to 250k. But beware: bonus can be raised only when white train arrow is blinking for several seconds after ball is released from horseshoe kicker! Moreover you will lose all your train bonus (it will drop down to the 10k) everytime you miss the rodeo passage when ball is released from there. With some experience is quite easy to take the rodeo: just observe the kicker blinking bulb - it starts blinkning 0,5s before the ball is kicked out!
All rules are taken from original game but some of them has been altered. This also happened that time. In original PC/SNES version you need to take rodeo just when ball is released: no delays, no second try. In our version you have some time to do it before the train arrow stops blinking. The time of blinking depends on difficulty level. Lowest difficulty allows you to take a second change to kick back the ball with right flipper to the upper kicker and take a second try if you are quick enough!

I will mistery reveal some mistery: we just started to work on Trick or Treat. Much work to do before us to keep WW level...

Thank you very much for your advice, I'll hasten to go try it.

Wow ... "Psycho Pinball: Trick & Treat" Awesome8-)

Bye

François

[KaNeLo]

Greetings from Mexico.

I have not much time playing this table, but I have play the original one (DOS) for a long time. I just want to say you have done a great work.

Also, I think you try to have all the original rules, and it's almost perfect, I have just found 2 rules that are not EXACTLY the same as the original. Yes, just 1 step different but here are them:

# GUN: Clear gun triggers to open bank for hold up value collection.

In the original game, you activate the GUN triggers to "rob" the bank, the only thing different with your version is, in the original game, if you activate it but you loose your ball and get a new one, you need to activate it again, on this version it does not matter if you loose your ball, it will still be active.

# MINE and JAIL: Spell next TNT letter. Light all letters to start multiball mode.

I have to say that I used to play the original on easy mode, and I'm also playing this table on Easy, with 5 balls. Now, when you activate this for the first time, you only need 1 ball to activate Multiball (it's the same on both versions). Now after you have the first multiball, on the original version, you have to open the MINE 3 times in order to get 3 balls and activate multiball again, on this version, you only have to open it 1 time, as it will remain open for 3 balls.

English is not my native language so I hope I explain myself clear enough. Also, I don't expect to get this fixed, just want to notice in case you haven't so far.

Regards.

[Sebek74]

Greetings from Mexico.
I have not much time playing this table, but I have play the original one (DOS) for a long time. I just want to say you have done a great work.

Greetings from Poland and thank you for your good words.

Also, I think you try to have all the original rules, and it's almost perfect, I have just found 2 rules that are not EXACTLY the same as the original. Yes, just 1 step different but here are them:

# GUN: Clear gun triggers to open bank for hold up value collection.

In the original game, you activate the GUN triggers to "rob" the bank, the only thing different with your version is, in the original game, if you activate it but you loose your ball and get a new one, you need to activate it again, on this version it does not matter if you loose your ball, it will still be active.

I need to check it but it's possible that it depends on difficulty level. Try to play HARD dfficulty to see it works the same way.

# MINE and JAIL: Spell next TNT letter. Light all letters to start multiball mode.

I have to say that I used to play the original on easy mode, and I'm also playing this table on Easy, with 5 balls. Now, when you activate this for the first time, you only need 1 ball to activate Multiball (it's the same on both versions). Now after you have the first multiball, on the original version, you have to open the MINE 3 times in order to get 3 balls and activate multiball again, on this version, you only have to open it 1 time, as it will remain open for 3 balls.

Once more it depends on difficulty level. At this point rules should be similar to original one. Regarding to TNT triggers: check it by yourself, when game is started on EASY you have 2 balls locked, on MEDIUM one ball locked and on HARD no balls locked. Did you noticed that that every ball sets the ball cage by itselft? Try to play multiplayer game or switch difficulty mode. Before you play balls are added to or removed from cage rolling from/to cactus all the time when needed.
Notice that also initial REWARD letters amount depend on difficulty level. One more thing: the reward letters and price are common for all players during the game. This is also original rule.

English is not my native language so I hope I explain myself clear enough. Also, I don't expect to get this fixed, just want to notice in case you haven't so far.
Regards.

No problem with that, you are doing well. English is not my native language as well.

Best regards