458 replies to this topic

[vogliadicane]

Nice thing about Anaglyph is
It is totally passive

Requires no special monitor or hardware etc
Would work on anyone's PC or cabinet

Can easily be used in multiplayer, heck you can get a dozen pairs of glasses cheap.

And you can easily turn it on or off at will.

Might be a starting point.

agree in any words quoted.

[fripounet]

active polarization, such as sony 3d or panasonic might bring better picture quality.

 

recommandation Ravarcade :

 

https://www.ravarcad...shutter-glasses

Edited by fripounet, 14 November 2021 - 11:21 PM.

[wiesshund]

active polarization, such as sony 3d or panasonic might bring better picture quality.

 

recommandation Ravarcade :

 

https://www.ravarcad...shutter-glasses

 

Which requires a playfield most people are not going to have, nor buy
(Most would have to downgrade their cab to do so)
 

We know all about shutter glasses, they are not the topic here

Nor does BAM enter into the discussion, since BAM is used with FP not VPX and BAM already has anaglyph that works

[Gravy]

active polarization, such as sony 3d or panasonic might bring better picture quality.

 

recommandation Ravarcade :

 

https://www.ravarcad...shutter-glasses

Yeah, I have a Panasonic 3D plasma tv in the lounge room with active glasses (they dont use polarisation though I dont think, polarised 3D is normal passive glasses). Difficult to find a large 3D screen suitable for pinball cab these days though. There were a few 4K 3D passive screens that came out towards the end of the 3D boom but I think all too large for a pinball cabinet.

There was some experimental work that Ravarcade did with getting VPX to work with BAM, but I think it stalled? (I have never tried to get it to work so perhaps it is fully functional but never got noticed much). See below:





and  for another example.

Edited by Gravy, 15 November 2021 - 02:53 AM.

[ludovids]

My playfield TV has active 3D. I gave it a try and was very impressed with the visual experience. VP is much, much better in 3D.

 

I could not continue with this because in order to try it out, I had to use  2 pairs of glasses rigged up to a safety goggle frame in order to use 1 lens from each, rotated 90 degrees. This was too unwieldy for continued use. The other problem was the refresh rate of each image was reduced from 60 Hz to 30 Hz.

 

Anaglyph 3D seems like the best solution from the user perspective. No special hardware needed other than inexpensive glasses, and everyone wearing the glasses can enjoy the experience.

[Gravy]

My playfield TV has active 3D. I gave it a try and was very impressed with the visual experience. VP is much, much better in 3D.

 

I could not continue with this because in order to try it out, I had to use  2 pairs of glasses rigged up to a safety goggle frame in order to use 1 lens from each, rotated 90 degrees. This was too unwieldy for continued use. The other problem was the refresh rate of each image was reduced from 60 Hz to 30 Hz.

 

Anaglyph 3D seems like the best solution from the user perspective. No special hardware needed other than inexpensive glasses, and everyone wearing the glasses can enjoy the experience.

What 3D TV model do you have (is it LCD)? I cant remember if I have ever tried viewing in portrait orientation on my Panasonic living room 3D plasma but I dont seem to recall rotation causing the image to black out. Your glasses or TV must have a linear polarised filter if you need to turn your glasses 90 degrees? Does the screen go black if you try to view without rotating the lenses?

Edit: Just saw your TV model in your sig, is it still the Samsung UN40JU7100?

I just had a thought, if you are wearing polarised sunglasses and you try to look at a polarised LCD monitor it can make the screen turn black, but if you take a plastic screen protector for a phone and pass it in front of the monitor in the correct orienation it cancels out the polarisation and you can then see the monitor through the screen protector even when wearing the polarised glasses. I wonder if you were to add a couple of makeshift polarising filters made from screen protectors to the front of your active 3D glasses if it would then allow you to view in portrait orientation in 3D? I'm trying to find a video that demonstrates this effect but it's fairly easy to test out (Im not sure if it works with all screen protectors).

In my testing just a few minutes ago I even found that the little plastic slip bag that the screen protector comes in works to cancel the polarisation as well, even better than the screen protector itself which seemed to add some rainbow effects, the screen protector does still have its front and back protection layers still on though so this may be what is causing the rainbow due to multi layers.

Here's a test photo below taken with my phone through the lens of my polarised sunglasses, I am holding up just the plastic bag and the transparency changes as I rotate it.





 

Edited by Gravy, 15 November 2021 - 11:05 PM.

[ludovids]

@Gravy: I ran the TV oriented as normal for a cab setup: landscape with output from VP rotated 270. Then I set both TV and VP to do Top/Bottom 3D. TV and glasses are synched so that when bottom image is shown, right lens is polarised so that only left eye sees bottom image. Corresponding behavior with top image and left lens, switching image/lens at 60 Hz. I expect that if I did not rotate the lenses, both eyes would see the top and bottom images, but it was so long ago, I can't remember for sure.

[Gravy]

@Gravy: I ran the TV oriented as normal for a cab setup: landscape with output from VP rotated 270. Then I set both TV and VP to do Top/Bottom 3D. TV and glasses are synched so that when bottom image is shown, right lens is polarised so that only left eye sees bottom image. Corresponding behavior with top image and left lens, switching image/lens at 60 Hz. I expect that if I did not rotate the lenses, both eyes would see the top and bottom images, but it was so long ago, I can't remember for sure.

Do you still have the 3d glasses and able to run another test? I'd be interested to know if both lenses of the glasses black out when the glasses are rotated at 90 degrees to the landscape screen. LCD screens use polarising filters in the screens and unless they are circular polarised they will have issues when rotating the glasses. Linear polarising filters black out if another linear filter in a pair of 3d glasses for instance is rotated.

If they do go black when the glasses are rotated when tuned off then your rotation issue may be fixed by the possible solution I mentioned earlier.

[ludovids]

I have the glasses tucked away somewhere, but battery must be dead long ago by now. The glasses are Samsung SSG-5100GB, with LCD shutters. Owner's manual says "If you lie on your side while watching TV with 3D active glasses, the picture
may appear dark or may not be visible." If you still want me to run a test, let me know.

[Gravy]

I have the glasses tucked away somewhere, but battery must be dead long ago by now. The glasses are Samsung SSG-5100GB, with LCD shutters. Owner's manual says "If you lie on your side while watching TV with 3D active glasses, the picture
may appear dark or may not be visible." If you still want me to run a test, let me know.

If your glasses are the rechargeable type I suggest charging them as soon as possible as if left for too long in discharged state I have noticed that at least one pair of my Panasonic glasses simply now refuse to charge due to a protection circuit or something (i need to disassemble them and see if I can change battery).

I really do suspect that my screen protector fix mentioned earlier may allow you to use your 3D glasses to view the screen in portrait orientation and this could be a game changer for people who have similar active 3D LCD screens and have faced the same issue.

Edited by Gravy, 17 November 2021 - 09:54 PM.

[ludovids]

The batteries are not rechargeable, so don't have to worry about that. Should give them a look anyway...

 

Maybe I'm not understanding this correctly, but if I use a screen protector to depolarize the glasses, then the eye will see both the left and right images and the 3D effect will be lost. Am I missing something here? I don't have a screen protector, but do have polarized clip on sunglasses...

[Gravy]

The batteries are not rechargeable, so don't have to worry about that. Should give them a look anyway...

 

Maybe I'm not understanding this correctly, but if I use a screen protector to depolarize the glasses, then the eye will see both the left and right images and the 3D effect will be lost. Am I missing something here? I don't have a screen protector, but do have polarized clip on sunglasses...

I dont think it will then show both lenses as clear at the same time no, unless you don't have the glasses switched on. The LCD switching in the glasses should hopefully still work to blacken and clear each lens in sequence as normal, however the screen protector will change the orientation of the polarization to enable you to see the screen in vertical orientation. You may need to rotate the screen protector (or not, I'm not entirely sure).

In my experience, even a piece of clear plastic plastic bag such as ziplock sandwich bag will work at a pinch, but the screen protector will be nice and clear hopefully.. If you get rainbow effects with the screen protector, try removing it's protective layers first and test again. I'm not sure if the polarized clip on glasses will work or not, perhaps if you play with their rotation.

Put on clipon glasses over your regular reading glasses and try looking at your screen from landscape and then portrait, it will likely blacken the screen when you view in portrait, then try holding a zip lock up to the screen whilst wearing glasses, you will hopefully then see what I mean as per my example image further up the page.

Edited by Gravy, 19 November 2021 - 06:19 AM.

[ludovids]

I haven't found my 3D glasses yet. But I tried putting my polarized clip-ons over my reading glasses. Looked the same in portrait and landscape modes. So I assume clip-ons and TV/VP are using different polarization methods, linear vs. circular. Will keep looking for the 3D glasses. Found some RealD glasses tucked away (circular polarization), but not the active ones yet.

[Gravy]

I haven't found my 3D glasses yet. But I tried putting my polarized clip-ons over my reading glasses. Looked the same in portrait and landscape modes. So I assume clip-ons and TV/VP are using different polarization methods, linear vs. circular. Will keep looking for the 3D glasses. Found some RealD glasses tucked away (circular polarization), but not the active ones yet.

Are the clip on glasses actually sunglasses or are they for watching 3D movies? If they are for 3D cinema movies then yes they are likely circular polarised.

Regular polarised sunglasses are linear polarised I think (which I'm guessing is probably what your 3D active glasses are too).

[wiesshund]

Heh one thing i learned today

Anaglyph is only as good as the screen you are looking at.

 

If the colors can not or will not calibrate properly, it does not work good

 

If the screen has the kinda funky anti reflective treatment many laptop screens to, that makes them look a silvery color
It does not work terribly good

 

If the screen has crap for brightness, it does not work so good

 

Also, while reshade is kinda Ok

It pales beside any of the inbuilt solutions used in any supporting games

even an old DOS game, like descent.

 

I wish i had too much brains and too much free time, i would take VPX source and code it into it (and then get bored and decide to redo it in dx12/vulkan also)

 

But i dont have an over abundance of either LOL

[ludovids]

The clip-ons are just sunglasses. Maybe they aren't really polarized, even though I think they claimed to be. Bought them many years ago, so can't be sure.

 

@wiesshund: How do you think VP needs to be changed to add anaglyph 3D support? Reading thru this topic again, I see that Reshade would take control when VP is started, so I don't understand what needs to be changed in VP. Or would this just be in lieu of an option being added in Reshade to config the rotation directly?

Edited by ludovids, 20 November 2021 - 03:43 PM.

[fripounet]

reshade is too CPU intensive, unless they have since optimized their post processing.

bam sources are on git, a developer could integrate the anaglyph and other 3d stereo effects with vpx.

 

to test the effectiveness of your anaglyph glasses, your screen and movement, many anaglyph movie are on yt.

if the test is inconclusive, it will not be on vpx.

 

the anaglyph is only funny 5 minutes, but no more

 

hd 1080p anaglyphe

excellent film pour tester votre materiel ; 

 

Edited by fripounet, 20 November 2021 - 05:12 PM.

[wiesshund]

 

 

@wiesshund: How do you think VP needs to be changed to add anaglyph 3D support? Reading thru this topic again, I see that Reshade would take control when VP is started, so I don't understand what needs to be changed in VP. Or would this just be in lieu of an option being added in Reshade to config the rotation directly?

 

Not being a coder, i can not exactly say, the BAM guys could probably give some suggestions though.

And they have their source available

but since other 3d methods are there, i dont think that anaglyph would be too far off

 

This would be in lieu of using reshade at all, as it would be purpose built rather than generic

 

Every game i have available to test, that has the ability to do 3d anaglyph baked in, the imagery is way superior than running it through reshade

 

reshade is too CPU intensive, unless they have since optimized their post processing.

bam sources are on git, a developer could integrate the anaglyph and other 3d stereo effects with vpx.

 

to test the effectiveness of your anaglyph glasses, your screen and movement, many anaglyph movie are on yt.

if the test is inconclusive, it will not be on vpx.

 

the anaglyph is only funny 5 minutes, but no more

 

hd 1080p anaglyphe

excellent film pour tester votre materiel ; 

 

 

 

Can not say about CPU intensive, does not seem to be, but i have 8 cores to throw at something, so maybe it would be in other cases

 

The butterflies tell me what i already know
1) the paper anaglyph glasses i have from decades ago suck

2) they really suck trying to use them with eye glasses, you have to hold them just right

3) it takes practice to learn to look at 3d anaglyph images, but your eyes get better at focusing properly as you do it more

4) You also have to learn to turn your head, instead of trying to look sideways with your eyes

 

I did not see anything funny though, just butterflies and plants

 

 

I ordered some better glasses from amazon to play with
non paper kind

[Gravy]

 

 

 

 

Every game i have available to test, that has the ability to do 3d anaglyph baked in, the imagery is way superior than running it through reshade

 

 

SuperDepth3d does have a game compatibility list and some do not work as well as others so it may be an issue with VPX? It does allow quite a degree of tweaking though so perhaps it can work a little better with some changes to settings. Also, monitors may need to be calibrated, I read somewhere about a way to calibrate is to create 2 squares of colour with a surround of white, around each square. Make one square pure red #FF0000 , and the other pure CYAN #00FFFF  (or whatever your lense colours are, blue may be #0000FF). Then adjust the monitor with the glasses on until the point where each square blends into the white when you close one eye.

Edit: Or you could just downloaded the test image and read some stuff from this page: https://www.spiedigi...3203.full?SSO=1

Direct link to test image only at https://www.spiedigi...043203_f005.png

SuperDepth3D did certainly tax my system though compared to VPX's other inbuilt 3D settings.

 

Here's a list of compatible games.

https://reshade.me/compatibility

Edited by Gravy, 21 November 2021 - 05:33 AM.

[wiesshund]

HA!

Im gonna go play World of Warcraft
with 3D glasses on

 

I shall look heroic!

 

going to wait ill my glasses arrive, as these glasses do not work that well, even with the material they came with

the blue is OK, the red is off, you can still slightly see the red through the red lens
plus the wrinkles in it are annoying.