76 replies to this topic

[jpsalas]

Here it is a graph of what I'm experimenting: the big spike is the loading of the table, and it stops loading after a few seconds, then the cpu is at about 15% but I couldn't find any process that was using the cpu. Then it stays like this for about 30 seconds, then the editor shows the table and the cpu goes idle again.

 

 

On other tables that "idle" time is much shorter. But that idle time is non existent in 10.6.1.

 

But other tables load as fast as always. Here it is The Tron table Bigus uploaded yesterday: Tron Legacy (Stern 2011)_Bigus(MOD) - VPForums.org

The loading time and the showing of the table in the editor is very normal:

 

 

So I don't know why it is happening, as on some table but on others 10.7 loads a table as usual.

 

I guess there is a problem with the Bugs Bunny table that disturbs 10.7.

I have noticed something similar in my tables, but they just load quite fast, maybe not as fast as in 10.6.1, so that's why I haven't reported that in the 10.7 thread. 

 

This is for example, the loading time of my Indiana Jones (the one I uploaded in the beta 10.7 thread)

 

 

The delay is just a few seconds, and I can live with that

 

I'll do some tests, but I know I have not used either too big pictures or too big sounds or too long names in the pictures or the sounds.

 

[toxie]

Then maybe it's an UI problem for you.  :/

Fuzzel is cursing it a lot, so maybe there are still some weird glitches in there where things get 'stuck' for whatever reason.  :/

Oh, and thanks for the quick test!

 

 

Ok, so I downloaded this little tool called Process Monitor v3.61 https://docs.microso...wnloads/procmon

No need for install so started the program and created a filter for: VPinballX.exe, B2SBackglassServerEXE.exe and PinUpDisplay.exe

Then I went to the tables folder and started the Bugs Bunny.vpx file. I ended the process when the table was fully loaded and after that closed Visual Pinball.

I saved the result in the program native format PML: https://www.dropbox....ogfile.PML?dl=0

So if someone can have a look, just download Process Monitor (it's a portable file) and just open the PML file.

I searched a little bit through all the events but I don't know what a normal result would look like, so no good comparison.

Thanks for the PML!

I quickly browsed through it, and not much stood out. But could you maybe completely exit/disable Team Viewer for one test, just to see it if has any sideeffects?

 

Today I disabled TeamViewer, stopped the service and quit all the processes.

What do you think? I start Bugs Bunny and it took exactly 10 seconds, from clicking the .vpx till the table was fully loaded with Puppack.

 

Very strange, because I always used TeamViewer on the cab without problems so I can sit behind my "normal" pc next to the cab.

 

And it feels like all tables are loading faster now.

 

 

Neat! At least one happy customer. 

Could well be that there was some TeamViewer or Win10 update that somehow screwed things up on some setups.  :/
 

[toxie]

JP, could you maybe also try to generate a PML like BlackPredator72 did, for a table that takes so much longer to load in 10.7 compared to 10.6.X?

Maybe that can give me a hint where to look for in addition..

[jpsalas]

I can make a video but the result will be the same as you see in BlackPretador72 video, I double click the table, and it loads just as fast as in 10.6, then nothing happens and you only see that the cpu is working on something, and after several seconds of doing "nothing" then the window "Preparing table" comes up and the table runs. If I load the table (not run but load it) in the editor, it does something similar and after several seconds the table it is shown in the editor. That Bugs Bunny table is the worst one I have seen.

 

I have tried the table with a very clean Windows, without any other program running.

 

I'm sure you can just test the Bug Bunny table, and try to load it in the editor with 10.7, and see how long it takes to show the table, compare it with the loading time of 10.6. I'm sure you'll notice the difference. You don't need to run it, just load it in the editor. Then quit the editors and you'll notice that 10.6 closes almost immediately, and 10.7 spends several seconds before it is closed.  

[wiesshund]

something odd going on there, not sure what

 

i was wondering it it was some kind of VPX + nvidia thing maybe?

I have nothing nVidia to test with though

 

My desktop loaded bugs bunny in like 7 or 8 seconds
When i say load, i mean from ntohing for a file window open, to table up backglass up ROM booted and stealing quarters

But is is AMD, both CPU and GPU
Intel, i only have in laptops, and do not have anything with an nvidia GPU.

 

I was wondering if, during that pause, is it loading things to VRAM or something video related?

 

I am wondering, what is vpx doing during that pause stage

Edited by wiesshund, 26 January 2021 - 12:50 AM.

[toxie]

@JP: The 'problem' is, for me it actually works normal, so i cannot repro the BBBB behavior of your setup, so for me 10.7 beta is actually a bit faster than 10.6.1 (that goes for 3 systems i have access to).

The PML could give me an indication at what stage things 'hang' for you.

[jpsalas]

Mmm, so if it works on your systems, then it may be something related to my setup. I'll do some tests on my own.

I start to wonder about the new Nvidia drivers. I just bought a new laptop, an ASUS Zenbook, and I still haven't setup VPX on it, so I'll do some tests on this computer too. Windows 10 is the same on both computers (Windows 10 Pro 20H2). 

[kiwi]

I'd like to try it too, but after double clicking on the table it only opens VPX without loading the table.

[toxie]

Please, you two, just try to do the same that BlackPredator did with his capture of the PML file. That also helped me pointing him to Team Viewer. Maybe i can find something else or even the cause in VPX itself with such dumps. I still have the new UI code as main suspect.

The other (more involved, but also more reliable) way would be if you could install Visual Studio 2019 (the no-cost one) and then do a VPX compilation and then profiling with it. (i could guide you through that if you're willing)

[simbamame]

Dunno if this helps but my Bugs Bunny ( 112 meg version ) load in about 12 seconds ( SSD not M2 ) im using Ryzen 7 with 32 gig ram and an RX560 but to be fair most of my tables load quick, haven't had any long load times.

Edited by simbamame, 26 January 2021 - 10:48 AM.

[jpsalas]

I have done some testing to find out what is causing the long delay.

This is loading the Bugs Bunny in the editor, using file load...

In this picture we see

1- the loading fase in red, quite fast,

2- the "waiting" fase in green, about 30 seconds or more,

3- and the display fase, where the table is shown in the editor, this also quite fast.

If I run the table after the table is loaded it runs in seconds, just normally.

During the "waiting" fase, the only program working is VP, at about 15%, and all the other programs are the same.

 

So the delay is VP 10.7 doing something internally. VPX 10.6.1 has no delay at all.

 

I installed VP in my new laptop, and VPX 10.7 loaded the table and run the table incredibly fast. No delays at all.

The laptop has the same Windows 10 20H2, as the desktop. So I did some testing on the desktop

 

- Remove Nvidia driver (the latest) and installed an older driver version 339,24. Same result, a very long delay. 

- Installed all the chipset drivers that Windows recommended. Same result.

Nothing more I could do with Windows, and I reinstalled Windows just 3 weeks ago.

 

Started testing with the Bugs Bunny table, to find out what is causing the delay, some tables load fast, other more slowly. Most of my tables load fast. So there must be something in Bugs Bunny that triggers that delay:

- Removed all sounds. Tried, same result, about 30 seconds delay with the VP using the cpu at about 15%

- Removed all graphics. Tried, same result

- Removed the script. Same result.

I loaded the full table again, and started removing objects:

- Removed all all primitives (429), and the delay was reduced to 16 seconds

- Removed all lights (622), and the delay was reduced to under 3 seconds

I loaded the full table again and...

- Removed all lights (622) and walls (137) and the delay was reduced to 9 seconds

- Removed also the 429 primitives, and the table started in no time.

 

So this means to me that VPX 10.7 is doing something with the objects, and the more objects you have in a table the more time will be spent doing something.

I thought that maybe it had to do with the new layers, so I moved all the objects to just one layer, but the delay was the same.

I also removed all the collections, in case the problem was the collections, but it was just the same.

 

So, something is wrong with the way VPX 10.7 manages the objects and my desktop computer. On the laptop this is done in under a few seconds, but on the desktop it takes more than 30 seconds.

 

But for most of the tables with less objects the delay is not so big.

 

/JP

Edited by jpsalas, 26 January 2021 - 11:13 AM.

[wiesshund]

JP can you list a hardware breakdown of the desktop VS the laptop ?

 

Wondering if it is certain hardware, and/or the software required for said hardware, that vpx is having an overly long discussion with

[jpsalas]

JP can you list a hardware breakdown of the desktop VS the laptop ?

 

Wondering if it is certain hardware, and/or the software required for said hardware, that vpx is having an overly long discussion with

 

Here you have an export av CPUZ program. It lists in detail all the components on the desktop and the portable.

On the desktop PC i have a big delay on tables with a lot of components, but the portable runs them like nothing.

The desktop PC is 8 years old, but still an i7 at 3,4ghz, 16Gb ram and a GTX 1070 runs everything without any problem.

OS on both computers are Windows 10 Pro 20H2. Latest drivers on everything.

 

[Thalamus]

Just to add to the confusion. I'm currently sitting in front of my old desktop computer, so, I though - let't give it a go.

 

Win10 20H2 - Nvidia 660Ti - driver : 456.71.

 

Manual stop watch, testing time from double click until I see the table finished rendered and lights turn on.

 

Latest 1.7beta is actually loading in 24 sek, and 10.6 in 28 sek.

 

One thing that might explain it, but, well, running from an SSD is that I didn't restart the computer in between. So, in theory, some of the stuff might be cached. But, 4 seconds isn't that big of a deal to me and this is a very old Xeon E5520 @ 2.27GHz.

 

As I said, on my cab, runs Win7, I don't really see much of a difference there either. I never used the stop watch, but, counted, and ended up with almost the same number.

[jpsalas]

I guess it is something with the chipset, I'll try updating all the C++ runtimes.

 

Edit: All C++ were already updated.

Edited by jpsalas, 26 January 2021 - 04:29 PM.

[kiwi]

I'd like to try it too, but after double clicking on the table it only opens VPX without loading the table.

This should be the PML file, it is capturing a couple of seconds.

 Logfile.zip   231KB   1 downloads

[toxie]

So this means to me that VPX 10.7 is doing something with the objects, and the more objects you have in a table the more time will be spent doing something.

This is why i still assume it has something to do with the UI.

Could you please still try to get me that PML? Cause i still don't get whats exactly causing this.

 

One experiment could be: What happens if you disable the visibility of all layers, save, and load that one? (so that there is no drawing of objects in the UI)

[jpsalas]

Disabling the visibility of the layers did nothing. The wait happens between the loading and the displaying of the table (either in the editor or the running of the table)

 

Here it is the PML file. I double clicked the Bugs Bunny table, waited until it runs, then I quit the table and I closed VPX 10.7. 

 

 

 

[toxie]

Thanks guys, will have a look at the 2 PML traces later-on!

[toxie]

@kiwi: So you just captured that VPX loads? No table then?