188 replies to this topic

[destruk]

With enough decent tables available for VP9, there will be more users using it. As a developer, I prefer to use the most cutting edge software available, with the most bells and whistles, and most bang for my buck. I'd use Future Pinball in a heartbeat if it had half-decent physics. Most people use Windows XP, but game developers are moving to Vista only even though it is a minority user segment. http://arstechnica.c...o-run-on-xp.ars -- funny article IMO since it applies here, sorta. Call it forced obsolescence, but VP8 is going the way of the dodo bird IMO because I don't want to make a table for it, and then have to spend a few weeks per game changing it to vp9's physics model. I'll continue to push right back saying that it's up to the author to decide which platform to make a pinball table for.

So you are saying because most users are perfectly happy to play multiball and get balls through the flippers, balls stuck in walls, balls not triggering hole switches in ther path of adventure, balls shooting wildly off the ramps for no reason, and basically a worse gameplay experience, everyone should develop tables for that version of visual pinball instead of the one that plays better? ok.

[jpsalas]

I couldn't have said it better!

Since I saw VP9 there was no return to VP8. Ok, I admit, there are a few quirks with Vp9, like you need an Nvidia card to get the best of it, the reels aren't as good as in VP8, but that's it, the rest is way much better, as destruk said.

That was a little off topic, now back to the wip which is looking very nice!

JP

[Noah Fentz]

I am looking forward to this new release of T2!

Unfortunately,your attitude is the WRONG attititude to take towards VP8 versus VP9.

As a developer, I Have learned that you are SUPPOSED to develop for the MAJORITY of users, not the mnority. Since VP8 is used by most users, you should develop for VP8 first, then VP9. You want to have your creation exposed to the MOST users that can use it. At this time, the majority of users use VP8, not VP9. I undestand there are advantages to VP9 versus VP8, but since most users are using VP8, that should be the priority to get the most exposure to your creation.

You can ban me if you wish for this. but it is standard to develop for the majority, not the minority. I will continually push for this until VP9 becomes used by the majority of users.

Ban you? Why on earth would I ban you for expressing your opinion?

VP9 has so many advantages over VP8 that authors can develop and release tables SO much faster. That is a great thing for both authors and members of the community. I see no reason to ever use VP8 again after my Horsemen table is done. The only reason I'm even using it for that table is the overlapping reels for the DMD.

[TheMcD]

I am looking forward to this new release of T2!

Unfortunately,your attitude is the WRONG attititude to take towards VP8 versus VP9.

As a developer, I Have learned that you are SUPPOSED to develop for the MAJORITY of users, not the mnority. Since VP8 is used by most users, you should develop for VP8 first, then VP9. You want to have your creation exposed to the MOST users that can use it. At this time, the majority of users use VP8, not VP9. I undestand there are advantages to VP9 versus VP8, but since most users are using VP8, that should be the priority to get the most exposure to your creation.

You can ban me if you wish for this. but it is standard to develop for the majority, not the minority. I will continually push for this until VP9 becomes used by the majority of users.

Y'know, you have a point there, but there's a problem with that attitude. We want to expose more people to VP9 and it's advantages. How do we do that? Release more tables for it. If we were to make more VP8 tables, why do we have VP9 in the first place? It would become redundant because not as many people use it, and because of that tablemakers wouldn't use it anymore.

It may be a kind of a bossy attitude to say "update to VP9 or you can't play these tables", but it's the only way we'll get widespread approval of VP9.

The McD

[studmuff]

Sorry, MB, but I will only have one more VP8 release probably ever...

Four Horsemen - Final.

I am looking forward to this new release of T2!

Unfortunately,your attitude is the WRONG attititude to take towards VP8 versus VP9.

As a developer, I Have learned that you are SUPPOSED to develop for the MAJORITY of users, not the mnority. Since VP8 is used by most users, you should develop for VP8 first, then VP9. You want to have your creation exposed to the MOST users that can use it. At this time, the majority of users use VP8, not VP9. I undestand there are advantages to VP9 versus VP8, but since most users are using VP8, that should be the priority to get the most exposure to your creation.

If that was true, Xbox 360 & PS3 would never have been released. No further technology would ever be created because the previous version has new users. VP9 is better than VP8 IMHO.

[ta2686]

You all make good points with your rebuttals.

However, all i am saying is that while you do develop for VP9, remember those who have problems using VP9, and can only run tables without those problems in VP8. I am all for using the latest and greatest, don't get me wrong. However, until all the issues with VP9 are resolved and everyone can use it just like they can VP8, VP8 will be still in use by many and there still will be demand for tables in VP8.

As an example, I like the latest releases that you have made (HSII, SM). However, I can't play these tables without graphics issues on my laptop (integrated Intel video) or on an ATI-based desktop. While I agree with you that the physics are improved and the elimination of the BTF issue are positives, the negatives of the graphics issue for me will keep me for now using VP8 mainly. I know about unchecking the hardware graphics rendering box in the editor, but then the tables look bad when I run them that way. Sometimes I can't play them AT ALL as the table will render but my system will lock up when the table appears on screen and VP9 will crash after that.

So please keep in mind that there will be users who can't use VP9 with their equipment (and can't afford to upgrade due to RL issues) and will only be able to play tables using VP8. That was the point of my original post.

[Noah Fentz]

There are hundreds of tables available for VP8 and only a fraction of that for VP9. They will always be available to play, so I see no problem here.

Numerous members have already upgraded their cards to play VP9, and that is consistent with the evolving game market in any genre. I went out and bought a new card just to play Oblivion, in fact. These things are common in the video game industry.

There are even games on the commercial market that have ATI bugs. It's not limited to VP9 by any means, and more importantly, VP9 is FREE.

[david33310]

quand verra t'on cette tables avec les multiball et les jackpots accessible

[Indepocket]

I have no probs with my ATI 4780, unchecking the hardware rendering is no big issue and
doesn't affect anything. They all play and look like a dream! :-)

[UncleReamus]

Let's not forget that most authors make the tables for THEMSELVES. I would imagine that someone who is motivated enough to design tables is motivated enough to use the newest and best software. I don't see any point in making tables for VP8 as I don't use it anymore; hell - VP9 is one of the things that pulled me back into this. I don't have the best system in the world, but I have found ways around some of the common little graphical bugs. I like VP9 a LOT better, so I am using VP9. VP8 is a dead player to me.

If you want to see more VP8 table releases, get to work.

[slam23]

I'll take a risk here and get back on-topic.... I love the details that already are present in the table, the HK-aerial (what joeheeger called the silver aircraft) on the right post of the left loop, the readable transparent texts, the great art surrounding the slingshots! I'm really looking forward to how you are gonna handle the cannon graphicswise and playability, that one will define a lot of the fun or frustration that goes with this table!
Greetings Slam23

[Noah Fentz]

Finished GI, and on to the gun...

should prove to be fun!

[GRONI]

Finished GI, and on to the gun...

should prove to be fun!

Looks very nice!! Nice Angle too. The Slingplastics could not be any better. Great Work!

Only thing that I would enhance is the the Backdrop. The Table is very sharp and detailed, and the backdrop is kinda swammy to that.

[Mr. Pacman]

Awesome guys! Awesome!

[UncleReamus]

Only thing that I would enhance is the the Backdrop. The Table is very sharp and detailed, and the backdrop is kinda swammy to that.

Thanks Groni, just took a look at it and adjusted the sharpness. If I can find a higher res image of the translite, it will look even better.

[GRONI]

Only thing that I would enhance is the the Backdrop. The Table is very sharp and detailed, and the backdrop is kinda swammy to that.

Thanks Groni, just took a look at it and adjusted the sharpness. If I can find a higher res image of the translite, it will look even better.

I had one before my HD Crash I was about 6000 Pixels and 17 MB strong. But I lost it, along with my 1GB Banzai Run Material

I´ll try if I can get it again

[Sandro]

Finished GI, and on to the gun...

should prove to be fun!

Looking wild! Any luck on the transparent ramp using the same technique as the transparent plastics? Keep up the AWESOME work!

[The Loafer]

Only thing that I would enhance is the the Backdrop. The Table is very sharp and detailed, and the backdrop is kinda swammy to that.

Thanks Groni, just took a look at it and adjusted the sharpness. If I can find a higher res image of the translite, it will look even better.

I had one before my HD Crash I was about 6000 Pixels and 17 MB strong. But I lost it, along with my 1GB Banzai Run Material

I´ll try if I can get it again

I've got quite a few pics of this table, if anyone wants them, PM me your email address. I think the glass was off but there was no power in that garage so a flash had to be used.

[Noah Fentz]

Looking wild! Any luck on the transparent ramp using the same technique as the transparent plastics? Keep up the AWESOME work!

Thanks, and no, no luck yet.

Oddly, I can make the transparent ramps look better WITHOUT hardware rendering.

@ Loaf - I think we're good, Loaf, but it certainly never hurts to show what you have.

[panootz]

Speaking of Terminator 1 and 3, I requested Steve Ritchie on my Facebook page and he added me to his friends list i thought that was nice. I wrote him a note that i finally played Spiderman for the first time and loved every minute of it and also said i like his tables. So he must have liked what i said and added me, I'm not lying either i like his tables like Roller Games, Terminator 1 and 2, Spiderman, Getaway high speed 2, Black Knight and Black knight 2000, and i know he has others out their to. I told him the only way that i play his older tables is by Virtual Pinball, I said i don't have money or room too have any pinball machines in my house, if i did i would want a Family Guy and Spiderman. I told him i havn't played his World poker tour, or 24 yet but i will hopefully someday. Dave P.

Edited by panootz, 08 September 2009 - 10:20 PM.