76 replies to this topic

[RYSr]

mjr,

 

Thank You!

 

Which build of VP10 did you use?

 

Rich

Edited by RYSr, 14 April 2015 - 08:49 PM.

[mjr]

The VP 10.0 build is based on commit 1908 (April 5).  It looks like there have been three commits since (all non-overlapping code, so it should be trivial to merge).

[Xendo]

I love these changes and it's about time they have been done.  Very much welcome they are.

[ClarkKent]

I'm slightly lost with the settings for the plunger. Can't get the right force for the plunger.

 

The "custom settings" are only for the visual appearance, aren't they?

 

The "release speed" is now also for the analogue plunger? I thought this setting was always for digital plunger only. Are the other values for the analogue plunger relevant, too? (like Pull Speed, Stroke Length and Scatter Velocity).

 

The "old" settings in the backdrop for "Mech Plunger Adjust" and "Filter Mechanical Plunger" are still in there - are they still necessary?

 

Have to test this further but a sample table would be just great!

 

(Just to be clear: I'm using an analogue plunger with a potentiometer, connected to the PinControl board: http://www.flipperma...ad.php?t=141086).

Edited by ClarkKent, 15 April 2015 - 03:58 PM.

[mjr]

The "custom settings" are only for the visual appearance, aren't they?

 

Right.

 

The "release speed" is now also for the analogue plunger? I thought this setting was always for digital plunger only. Are the other values for the analogue plunger relevant, too? (like Pull Speed, Stroke Length and Scatter Velocity).

 

Right, Release Speed now controls the analog plunger release strength.  When a release motion is detected from the mech device, the simulation plunger fires with the Release Speed setting.

 

Mech Strength is still used, but it's less important than it used to be because of the way Release Speed takes over when a release motion occurs.  Mech Strength still determines the coupling strength between the mech plunger and the simulation plunger, so it will still control the speed imparted to the ball when you move the mech plunger slowly (slower than the release threshold).  Setting this to about the same value as Release Speed seems to work well for me.

 

Pull Speed sets the rate of pulling back the plunger via the keyboard interface (usually pressing and holding the Enter key).  This has no effect on the mech plunger motion.

 

Stroke Length sets the on-screen length of the plunger, so it applies to all interfaces.

 

Scatter Velocity is a randomness factor added into the launch speed.  This applies to all interfaces.  If you're using a mech plunger, I'd set this to zero.  Its purpose is to simulate the mechanical randomness in a physical plunger, so if you're actually using a physical plunger, you don't really need both simulated and real mechanical randomness.

 

 

The "old" settings in the backdrop for "Mech Plunger Adjust" and "Filter Mechanical Plunger" are still in there - are they still necessary?

 

Probably not for your setup.  

 

I'm not sure why Mech Plunger Adjust was created in the first place; it's basically a scaling factor multiplied into the plunger force calculations, so you can get the same effect by adjusting the other strength parameters.  It's applied globally, so maybe someone thought it would be handy to have a way to tweak both plungers in Funhouse at the same time with a single parameter.

 

As for Filter Mechanical Plunger, that's another one I'm not sure about.  I've never enabled it.  In terms of what it does, it applies a low-pass filter to the raw mech plunger input data, which is to say that it smooths out rapid changes from the data.  My guess is that it's very specifically designed for a particular commercial plunger kit, probably one of the early ones like the Nanotech kit.  I say this because the filter has particular parameters that must have been chosen empirically to improve results with some specific testing hardware.  The Nanotech kit uses an IR proximity sensor, and those are pretty jittery, so that would fit with this explanation.

 

For your plunger, I'd definitely disable the filter.  The filter probably removes some of the annoying jitter from whichever kit it was designed for, but at the cost of losing precision and response speed.  It would only be harmful for mech plungers that don't have the particular noise profile the filter was designed to deal with.

Edited by mjr, 15 April 2015 - 06:09 PM.

[ClarkKent]

Wow! Thank you for the very detailed explanations! Maybe you should add this to the manual - especially the info that the values for Mech Strenght and Release Speed could be the same. Never thought of that...

 

Just forgot to ask: Do you consider this final or work in progress? Only because I would like to start to revise all plungers and I only do this if this is final...

Edited by ClarkKent, 15 April 2015 - 07:02 PM.

[mjr]

Just forgot to ask: Do you consider this final or work in progress? Only because I would like to start to revise all plungers and I only do this if this is final...

 

I consider it done.  It remains to be seen if everyone else agrees.

[ClarkKent]

Ok. Then I understand it this way: It will only be "adjusted" if a problem occurs. Otherwise will remain as it is. Good solution!  

[sliderpoint]

If you have more than one plunger object the dotted line for the park position doesn't show up on subsequent plungers.

 

-Mike

[mjr]

If you have more than one plunger object the dotted line for the park position doesn't show up on subsequent plungers.

 

Which version are you seeing that in?  I can't seem to reproduce the problem.  Are you sure you have Mechanical Enabled on all of them?  The park position only applies if that's set, so the dotted line is only shown if so.

[sliderpoint]

 

If you have more than one plunger object the dotted line for the park position doesn't show up on subsequent plungers.

 

Which version are you seeing that in?  I can't seem to reproduce the problem.  Are you sure you have Mechanical Enabled on all of them?  The park position only applies if that's set, so the dotted line is only shown if so.

 

Doh!  You are correct sir.  Missing Mech checkbox.

 

Thanks!

-Mike

[fuzzel]

Hey mjr I looked at your code changes and would like to add your changes to the subversion repository. Do you plan to update the documentation of the new plunger features so we could also add this to the repositiory and to one of the next beta builds?

 

edit: before I forget to mention it: awesome job really well done!

Edited by fuzzel, 16 April 2015 - 01:40 PM.

[sliderpoint]

Can we get all the sample images added to the default tables in each .exe.  I only see two in 991 and none in pm5 and vp10.

 

Thanks!

-Mike

[wtiger]

mjr,

Thank you for your time spent on this and sharing with all of us.  This is a very nice enhancement to an already wonderful program!

[toxie]

I just tried it for the first time (finally!), its a difference like night and day.. Thanks a lot! You rule!

[randr]

I haven't seen the code yet but will I be able to scale the plunger size wise.

[fuzzel]

The new plunger is now part of the official VP10 sources and will be available in the next beta.

 

Edited by fuzzel, 16 April 2015 - 07:31 PM.

[mpad]

Neat.

[toxie]

i also just merged it to 9.9.1, but will wait with an official release until more feedback was coming in.

 

thanks mjr!

[mjr]

Do you plan to update the documentation of the new plunger features so we could also add this to the repositiory and to one of the next beta builds?

 

I'd be happy to.  Are you just talking about txt/commandreference.txt, or is there something else you had in mind?