81 replies to this topic

[UltraPeepi]

I was able to import a model from FP into VP.  This is going to be cool, for sure.  I haven't figured out how to do the texture yet.  At this point, I am more interested in how best to use these models.

 

>>have an invisible round wall slightly bigger than the pegs for the collision

It appears that the ball goes through these models / primitives.  That's fine.  The model I used as my first try, was a ramp.  In order to get that to work, I created the primitive for the visible aspect, then the VP ramp for the behavior.  I presume I can make the VP ramp invisible.

 

Is that how I should expect to implement my table with models ported over from FP?  Or am I missing something?  Are there plans to add collision properties to the primitives at some point?  I'm just trying to understand the capabilities today, and what the capabilities will be in the "near" future.

 

Thanks.

[UltraPeepi]

OK, I it only took my an hour and a half, but I figured out why my textures weren't being honored.  I was editing the texture, then reimporting the image in VP.  BUG ALERT!!!   That doesn't honor my newly saved/reimported texture.  If I save my table, close and reopen, the texture appears correctly.

 

Now that I am aware of that, I can work around the issue.

[UltraPeepi]

I can rotate my model about two axes; but it appears that ROTX and ROTZ do the same thing.  My model is facing the wrong way, and it doesn't appear I can rotate it.  I want to be able to rotate it clockwise (looking down at the table).  Am I missing something?

[fuzzel]

If you import the model in blender check the rotation axis. Is the X axis rotated about 90°? If so rotate it to 180° and the model should face up without changing the rotation settings in VP. Anyway I tried the rotation axis and everything seems fine here. Regarding your texture problem: keep in mind that your texture size is a power of 2 (128x128, 256x256, 512x512...up to 4096x4096) otherwise it won't work as expected.

[UltraPeepi]

Yep.  I was able to get it to work by rotating X by 180, and Y by 270.  Now I am able to place my model and tweak the rotation using ROTZ.  Perfect.

 

FYI, the model that I made is the wire ring for use with ramps.  It should be easy placing the primitive and rotating to match the wire ramp direction.  The other way I have seen to make a wire ring involves multiple walls (a real pain, it seems).

 

 

I'm still not happy with my texture, however.  I am having a hard time making the ring match the wire ramp color/texture.

Edited by UltraPeepi, 11 October 2013 - 11:29 PM.

[Gilrock]

So I got my table close to finished.  Below is a screenshot in desktop mode.  I basically built the table from the ground up.  The only items from the previous Time Warp I grabbed was the scoring display stuff on the backdrop.  And I grabbed one bumper and slingshot from Gorgar since it was another Williams table that used the same components.  I have a lot of sounds recorded from my real table which I think sound really good.  Each flipper, slingshot, bumper and drop target sets have their own individual sounds which makes it kinda cool when the ball is bouncing between bumpers because it's not the exact same sound playing.

 

Anyways to my question.  Before I spend too much time trying to figure this out....is it possible for me to import the banana flippers from my FP version of Time Warp and use them in VP?  I imported one flipper as a primitive just fine but it doesn't appear to have any properties like the native flipper object and it doesn't collide with the ball.

 

http://www.mediafire...2s4ac/TW_ss.jpg

 

The only other things I'd like to do besides fixing the flippers is to try to paint shading onto my textures to make it look like real lighting with shadows.

 

Thanks,

Gil

[koadic]

Currently you can't collide with primitives. You would have to use an actual flipper to hit the ball, but you can't uncheck 'visible' otherwise it makes it like it isn't there. You need to set the color to pure black to make it transparent and then get your primitive positioned just right over the actual flipper on the table. You also need to change the rotational center of the primitive and control the angle by tying it into the flipper angle.

Edited by koadic, 15 October 2013 - 08:09 AM.

[Gilrock]

Ok thanks.  That's what I was suspecting.  That means it won't follow the curvature of the bananna so I'm not sure it's worth faking the look.

[UltraPeepi]

When will sphere mapping textures be supported?

 

I am a total noob.  I can't image being anywhere near 'done' within the next few months.  So I personally, am in no hurry.  But I would like to know where it is on the priority list.  If soon, I'll just get the warm fuzzies that before I'm ready, it will be available.

Edited by UltraPeepi, 25 October 2013 - 10:08 PM.

[fuzzel]

where or for what do you need sphere mapping?

[unclewilly]

Sphere mapping is good for stuff like metal pegs, and pretty much anything metal.

In fp you can take a ball texture and sphere map it to a metal peg or post and it gives the appearance of the post being chrome.

For example,
I'be asked randar if he could model a wire ramp ring for me to use in mb and bop.
If I uvunwrap the model and try to texture it to get the appearance of chrome it is very difficult. With the sphere mapping it looks much better.

I don't even know if that is possible in dx7 though.

I appreciate all the stuff you look into and implement to make our lives easier as table authors

[fuzzel]

well sphere or better environmapping is easy even with dx7. I will do some tests with primitives and even on walls and ramps to see if the effect looks good.

[unclewilly]

That's awesome. If you want a nice texture. Look in do.

Your the best fuzzel

[UltraPeepi]

Sweet.  Thanks.  I really love how active the development on VP is.  Keep up the great work.

[fuzzel]

Ok guys...try rev 686. The best solution to support sphere mapping is with 3d mesh primitives. You can try it on those objects, the old primitive object isn't supported. I did a quick test on ramps but the wired ramps don't have

texture support at all and change that together with sphere mapping is a lot more work.

[unclewilly]

Thanks Fuzzel. I have a couple of daYs off conning up to play with this. Did you try it out with decent results

[UltraPeepi]

Here is what I was able to throw together.  The 'silver' ramp in front is level.  It shows the rings rotated about the Z axis.  The 'gold' ramp in back is at in incline and shows the rings rotated about the X-Y axis as well.

 

 

The ramps themselves aren't sphere mapped.  They are just the default 4 wire ramps with color applied.  I can get around that with a top and bottom flat ramp.  OR I can create a 3D model of the entire ramp.

Edited by UltraPeepi, 27 October 2013 - 12:47 AM.

[koadic]

Hey Fuzz, I have a couple questions and was wondering if you might be able to answer them... I am experimenting with modeling some ferris wheels to convert the Hurricane table over from my current method to using primitives, which gives the benefit of providing a much smoother animation as well as most likely making it run a bit better.

I don't know if I am doing something wrong, but when I import my mesh into VP, both the primitive and the image mapped to it get mirrored on the X axis... If I change the X scale to -1 instead of 1, the shape gets corrected, but the image gets messed up even worse. Do you think I should just go ahead and remodel the wheel to be reversed (as well as flipping the images) as it is just the way it is? or can this be fixed in the source so stuff appears as it was intended?

If necessary, I can provide some images to illustrate my issue and/or provide any further pertinent information. Regardless, all the work you have put in so far with getting 3d objects available inside VP is amazing and much appreciated.

[UltraPeepi]

After coming back from Captain Phillips (good movie if you haven't seen it), I redid the ramps as flat ramps (the method I see used in the most polished VP tables).  I made three different sphere maps, with matching wire images for the flat ramps.

 

Again, the gold one is on an incline.

 

[fuzzel]

koadic, is your texture size something like 128x128, 256x256 or 512x512 or higher? If the mesh itself is mirrored then you have to rotate, scale the object in blender and export it again. Or send me the obj file and the table and I have look

UW, you will get nice results if your sphere map is a good one. I just tried a peg and it looked really nice, depending on the map it lookes like a metal or a shiny plastic peg.

Edited by fuzzel, 27 October 2013 - 07:21 AM.