116 replies to this topic

[toxie]

The hope is that this could be resolved by blending the animated sections of the table rather than simply blitting them, so in theory this should work better (if it can be fully resolved is something i don't know yet)..

As for the blurry FXAA: interesting, as i only tested via hyperpin, at least this would explain why i found it to be too much blurred then.. Did you try enabling FXAA only for VP in the NV settings?

[thewool]

The screenshots I took were launching direct from VP, the BSD haze image was using HP. Yes I did play around with enabling/disabling in various global/VP/HP configurations but with no joy.

... the good news is I think I've found a workaround for using Hyperin with FXAA enabled with no hazyness. I'll test this further tonight and start a different thread if it looks like it will work. There are some compromises but not too many...

With FXAA enabled and AA disabled it's been rock solid with no crashing or table items disappearing, all smooth with no black lines and it doesn't seem to affect anything such as kickercups. Looks like it might have to do for the short term but I really hope you can work some code magic Toxie!

Edited by thewool, 29 August 2012 - 04:13 PM.

[JohnnyDoe]

I have great results on my cab with the new beta, almost no jaggies at all:

Edit: Now that I've had some time to look at the printscreen, I can see the haze everyones talking about, is it in my head or is it there?

Edited by JohnnyDoe, 01 September 2012 - 12:26 PM.

[thewool]

Have you enabled AA or FXAA ?

I think AA as you can see the black lines around the illusions inserts. You won't have these using FXAA. I can't see any haze in the screen shot, to my knowledge the haze is only using FXAA when VP is launched from Hyperpin.

[JohnnyDoe]

Have you enabled AA or FXAA ?

I think AA as you can see the black lines around the illusions inserts. You won't have these using FXAA. I can't see any haze in the screen shot, to my knowledge the haze is only using FXAA when VP is launched from Hyperpin.

This is from Hyperpin.
I use both Fxaa and AA. When I disable AA, I get jaggies up the wazoo. So thats a no go. I'm gonna leave my settings as is, cause its the best I've ever got.

[bent98]

The hope is that this could be resolved by blending the animated sections of the table rather than simply blitting them, so in theory this should work better (if it can be fully resolved is something i don't know yet)..

As for the blurry FXAA: interesting, as i only tested via hyperpin, at least this would explain why i found it to be too much blurred then.. Did you try enabling FXAA only for VP in the NV settings?

Toxie

Have you had anytime to do more testing on this? I hear a new version of vp will be released soon and it would be nice if this tweak if possible could make it in.




Thanks!

[toxie]

Unfortunately not, because i had to spent quite some time fixing a nasty bug in the 3d stereo code first.. but i haven't forgotten this issue..
btw: today a new nv driver was released (306.23) in case somebody feels like testing it..

[OuchTilt]

My test table was Ripleys

I thought I would give these FXAA settings a try, there was a very noticeable difference in the table graphics, especially after a few games then returning to old settings.

I too was getting this hazy playfield when running from hyperpin, but also found something interesting.

Every time I nudged the table the haze would return....... I once had a problem with some tables where a left nudge would give a major stutter. My fix was to comment out the StartShake command in the script. So I went into the script and commented out the StartShake command, this fixed the haze problem even after a nudge.

Unfortunately for me I cannot use the FXAA setting as it hammered my F11 frame score. On Ripleys running FXAA with ball in shooter lane 237, without FXAA 2853.

My hardware is obviously not up to running FXAA.

Running AMD Phenom 3.2Ghz, GTS450, Windows XP

[jimmyfingers]

My test table was Ripleys

I thought I would give these FXAA settings a try, there was a very noticeable difference in the table graphics, especially after a few games then returning to old settings.

I too was getting this hazy playfield when running from hyperpin, but also found something interesting.

Every time I nudged the table the haze would return....... I once had a problem with some tables where a left nudge would give a major stutter. My fix was to comment out the StartShake command in the script. So I went into the script and commented out the StartShake command, this fixed the haze problem even after a nudge.

Unfortunately for me I cannot use the FXAA setting as it hammered my F11 frame score. On Ripleys running FXAA with ball in shooter lane 237, without FXAA 2853.

My hardware is obviously not up to running FXAA.

Running AMD Phenom 3.2Ghz, GTS450, Windows XP

I'm curious did you try the basic Antialiasing settings? FXAA is supposed to be the least imapactful on a system but maybe there are other combination factors for your set-up. Have a try with the basic AA settings at the beginning of this topic and see what your performance is like. It does have some black lines on some tables but at this point I'd be curious just whether you notice a different FPS. My AA settings only seem to take tables down FPS abot 5-10% and some even less.

By the way, I've tested with the latest official 306.23 and it seems just as good if not a tad more higher performance / FPS thatn the 304.79 (but it's not a Beta). I've switched my development and cabinet systems and everything seems at least as good as the 304.79 ones.

Edited by jimmyfingers, 15 September 2012 - 06:03 PM.

[thewool]

I have FXAA working really well with Hyperpin and experience zero haze on 98% of tables launched. I know what I have to change but I don't know why (if that makes sense), just a case of trial/error as I was seeing some really strange table crashes which were linked to vpinmame. The haze seems to be caused while the table is being rendered which must be slightly different when using Hyperpin and when it switches over to VP at the end of loading.

[toxie]

Unfortunately for me I cannot use the FXAA setting as it hammered my F11 frame score. On Ripleys running FXAA with ball in shooter lane 237, without FXAA 2853.

you shouldn't be worried by this.. FXAA simply adds a constant overhead per frame, so this is why the 'average' frame rendered will take longer.. but in situations where there is potential stuttering (fps dropping A LOT, i.e. down to <100), the overhead will still be the same, so it won't have much impact in these situations.. the FXAA code in the driver was finetuned for months by a real lunatic and so there shouldn't be any real impact at all..

[thewool]

As the Hyperpin, VP and FXAA combo are working well for me, I'll sort out my settings and put them in a new post as this thread is really about standard AA.

Toxie, was that you man that worked on the driver?

I've been using FXAA full time for a few weeks and I can't play VP without it. I haven't seen any performance impact on my setup and everything looks soooooo smooth ramps, flippers, rails = no jaggies. Even old tables that use the old style of dappled transparent ramp look good as the ramp is pretty much smoothed out. No black lines, no disappearing objects, no crashes (now).

[toxie]

not me, no..
but this guy (and the driver team of course): http://timothylottes.blogspot.de/

[Aurich]

As the Hyperpin, VP and FXAA combo are working well for me, I'll sort out my settings and put them in a new post as this thread is really about standard AA.

I'm curious to see what it is you're find that works to combat the haze myself.

[ArcadiusMaximus]

QUOTE (thewool @ Aug 25 2012, 05:23 PM)
Sorry Jimmy, we're going away tomorrow so I've had hardly any time today. The screen shots were taken in a rush....

Here's the settings that work, as long as FXAA is enabled I see the benefit. I tried some of the other settings on/off to try and get rid of the haze when using VP from HP but no joy. Will have a proper go when I retrurn.

Also noticed this setting dithers non-alpha transparent ramps, they don't look as good as alpha ramps but they look better which is a bonus.

Running Windows XP SP3 32-bit by the way.



Thanks TW, exactly what I wanted to see / confirm. Much appreciated style_emoticons/default/dblthumb.gif

I Have a feeling that the difference could be between Windows XP / Windows 7. I hope not as I like Windows 7 AND keeping desktop composition left on as the tearing on flippers is resolved in that configuration. I have a windows XP test partition so I'm going to do some testing on my 2 (and a half with the extra partition) systems.

Hi Jimmy, not to hijack a thread but I am experiencing that flipper tearing using windows 7 x64. Can you explain a little more how you are using desktop composition to help stop this issue? I think along the way I disabled AERO. Should I re-enable it ? Honestly aside from uvp not working at all this is the number 2 problem I have with my setup. Thanks !

[jimmyfingers]

These are the only settings I need to enable to have the flipper tearing fixed. I have found a nuance, however, where some options are not displayed until you first set it to "Best Appearance" than go back in and remove everything except the 3 you see in the screen capture.

I also create a duplicate .exe file of my current VPinball.exe and for times when I want to assess the performance difference, create a shortcut, and set the compatibility mode to "Disable desktop composition". But you will not have to do anything for the main .exe if you set the settings as below and want desktop composition to stay on.

If the table is demanding and high on resources you may have VP switch you to compatibility mode without you knowing it, except your windows borders will turn opaque and you'll see some other visual clues. If you still have the transparent windows / title area and are playing VP, you should have no flipper tearing.

 Desktop Composition Settings (VP - Flipper Tearing Fix).PNG   145.41KB   52 downloads

Edited by jimmyfingers, 17 September 2012 - 07:42 PM.

[ArcadiusMaximus]

Thanks for this. I'll give it a shot along with the original posted driver and see what happens.

[jimmyfingers]

Thanks for this. I'll give it a shot along with the original posted driver and see what happens.

Actually, you probably should just go with the official WHQL 306.23 just out recently from Nvidia (vs. the BETA). I've had it on both my systems for the last few days and all behaviour appears consistent with the previous driver (and earlier ones for that matter) plus what looks to be a small FPS increase.

[ArcadiusMaximus]

Thanks for this. I'll give it a shot along with the original posted driver and see what happens.

Actually, you probably should just go with the official WHQL 306.23 just out recently from Nvidia (vs. the BETA). I've had it on both my systems for the last few days and all behaviour appears consistent with the previous driver (and earlier ones for that matter) plus what looks to be a small FPS increase.

Well sticking with the new drivers, default nv settings, and fxaa on I cant get vp + transparency to play nice. If I enable the 3 settings for aero you show above I get extreme micro stuttering with ball movement. HOWEVER the flippers no longer tear haha. So Either I have tearing flippers or micro stutter. Aside from all that I really dont see a quality improvement when enabling fxaa. I still have mini jaggies on all my flippers and some ramps. I have pretty much maxed out all my settings and I still get little jaggies. Oh well, other than that I guess I should be thankful thats the worst of my problems. I cant help wondering if I should beef up my ram from 4 to 8gb or attempt to overclock at all ( stock i5 2500k). Are you using the LED wiz in your setup?

[jimmyfingers]

Thanks for this. I'll give it a shot along with the original posted driver and see what happens.

Actually, you probably should just go with the official WHQL 306.23 just out recently from Nvidia (vs. the BETA). I've had it on both my systems for the last few days and all behaviour appears consistent with the previous driver (and earlier ones for that matter) plus what looks to be a small FPS increase.

Well sticking with the new drivers, default nv settings, and fxaa on I cant get vp + transparency to play nice. If I enable the 3 settings for aero you show above I get extreme micro stuttering with ball movement. HOWEVER the flippers no longer tear haha. So Either I have tearing flippers or micro stutter. Aside from all that I really dont see a quality improvement when enabling fxaa. I still have mini jaggies on all my flippers and some ramps. I have pretty much maxed out all my settings and I still get little jaggies. Oh well, other than that I guess I should be thankful thats the worst of my problems. I cant help wondering if I should beef up my ram from 4 to 8gb or attempt to overclock at all ( stock i5 2500k). Are you using the LED wiz in your setup?

Have you not read through the full post? I was referring to things to set just for flipper tearing as we've already concluded that FXAA is non-functional and has no effect on VP in Windows 7 - testing with the same driver versions work in XP with same settings. So, definitely don't waste your time on FXAA in windows 7 right now. If you want try the regular AA settings that this thread was originally about but you will get some other black outlines. FXAA definitely would have been my choice as per TheWool's findings but we can not reproduce those results in Windows 7 with any of the latest drivers. Like I say, I was only referring to aspects for flipper tearing in my response for you nothing about any AA / FXAA specific settings which may have differenty and varying results on your system.