Jump to content



Photo
* * * * * 1 votes

Alice In Wonderland (AIW) a (WIP)


  • Please log in to reply
66 replies to this topic

#41 FDSystems

FDSystems

    Eclectic end-user

  • Charter Member
  • 2,477 posts
  • Location:Bahia

  • Flag: Brazil

  • Favorite Pinball: I will have to find out again.............

Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:36 AM

:JawDrop:WOW !!! :JawDrop:


Posted Image


:dblthumb:

Edited by FDSystems, 09 October 2012 - 10:46 AM.

From Brasil. Updated version of 1234fd



#42 javier1515

javier1515

    Pinball Fan

  • VIP
  • 574 posts
  • Location:Villa Maria Cordoba

  • Flag: Argentina

  • Favorite Pinball: The Addams Family, Hook



Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:49 AM

you rock man!!! looks great

"Learning without thought is vain, thought without learning is dangerous." (Confucius)
 
"Aprender sin pensar es inútil, pensar sin aprender es peligroso". (Confucio)

 

 

Please, if you can help me with a small contribution to update my work team and continue to make more tables I will be eternally grateful.
 

#43 Starlion08

Starlion08

    Hobbyist

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 11 posts

  • Flag: ---------

  • Favorite Pinball: Star Wars Trilogie

Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:40 AM

yes great news!!!

My adaptation wonderland Fp

Posted Image
Alice au pays des merveilles!!

#44 T-800

T-800

    All-In

  • Silver Supporter
  • 417 posts
  • Location:Minnesota

  • Flag: United States of America

  • Favorite Pinball: Wrath of Olympus



Posted 09 October 2012 - 01:50 PM

yes great news!!!

My adaptation wonderland Fp

Posted Image
Alice au pays des merveilles!!


Nice artwork. Are these illustrations your originals? If so, very well done.

#45 Aurich

Aurich

    Enthusiast

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 306 posts
  • Location:Southern California

  • Flag: ---------

  • Favorite Pinball: Scared Stiff

Posted 09 October 2012 - 05:31 PM

Nice artwork. Are these illustrations your originals? If so, very well done.


The original playfield art: http://artgerm.devia...and-1-260146361

#46 oldskoolgamer

oldskoolgamer

    VP Graphic Artist

  • VIP
  • 643 posts
  • Location:USA

  • Flag: United States of America

  • Favorite Pinball: Safe Cracker

Posted 10 October 2012 - 02:21 AM

Cool...really should post that in another thread. Don't want to hijack T-800's WIP thread with anything.
 Posted Image  Posted Image Posted ImagePosted Image Posted Image Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

#47 Practicedummy

Practicedummy

    Multi-Level Madman

  • Platinum Supporter
  • 2,683 posts
  • Location:Indiana

  • Flag: United States of America

  • Favorite Pinball: I like multi-level pinball the most


  • Trophies:

Posted 10 October 2012 - 02:48 AM

Cool...really should post that in another thread. Don't want to hijack T-800's WIP thread with anything.


Ditto

I could have been smart, but I never learned anything by being smart!

 

 


#48 T-800

T-800

    All-In

  • Silver Supporter
  • 417 posts
  • Location:Minnesota

  • Flag: United States of America

  • Favorite Pinball: Wrath of Olympus



Posted 13 October 2012 - 08:38 PM

So... I design and build my tables in desktop format and then periodically during the build do the adjustments to make them full screen via the standard editor options (rotation, scale, off-set, etc.) to maintain angle independence on everything from the table editor side. When I converted Alice to FS for some reason the ball gets stuck on the left ramp part way down while returning to the right inlane. This "glitch" doesn't happen on my desktop version - the ball travels through the ramp and down to the inlane and to the flipper without a hitch. Can anyone explain to me what's going on?? Is this just one of those weird ramp issues that comes up and you solve by deleting the ramp and rebuilding it? I'm still confused as to why ramps can be so finicky from time to time... even more confused why it works in desktop by not in FS. Anyone info that can shed light on this would be grrrrrrreat. BTW- here's a snip'it of the colored playfield, still a very much WIP (layout is still being tweaked and some art needing to be finished)...

Attached File  AIW_pf.png   318.69KB   226 downloads

#49 ICPjuggla

ICPjuggla

    Early Retirement

  • VIP
  • 1,193 posts

  • Flag: United States of America

  • Favorite Pinball: Star Wars

Posted 13 October 2012 - 09:12 PM

Wow man looking hella cool!

cosmicgunfight-sig2.png breakshot-sig-small3.png atlantis-sig-small.png mousinaround-sig6.png hurricane-sig16.png sc-badge1.png lw-sig.png embryon-logo0.png icp-3.png apollo13_badge(1).png whirlwind_badge0.png playboy_badge0.png oxo1.png raven_logo.png rambo_logo4.png


#50 luvthatapex

luvthatapex

    Pinball Fan

  • VIP
  • 1,435 posts

  • Flag: United States of America

  • Favorite Pinball: Tron



Posted 14 October 2012 - 12:19 AM

Wow, thats a beauty! Nice work man!

I've had wierd things happen with ramps that cross a lane. I always have to increase their height maybe 10-15 units in order for the ball to pass on the FS version. Not sure why, but it works. Thanks for the update, its really coming along beautifully.


So... I design and build my tables in desktop format and then periodically during the build do the adjustments to make them full screen via the standard editor options (rotation, scale, off-set, etc.) to maintain angle independence on everything from the table editor side. When I converted Alice to FS for some reason the ball gets stuck on the left ramp part way down while returning to the right inlane. This "glitch" doesn't happen on my desktop version - the ball travels through the ramp and down to the inlane and to the flipper without a hitch. Can anyone explain to me what's going on?? Is this just one of those weird ramp issues that comes up and you solve by deleting the ramp and rebuilding it? I'm still confused as to why ramps can be so finicky from time to time... even more confused why it works in desktop by not in FS. Anyone info that can shed light on this would be grrrrrrreat. BTW- here's a snip'it of the colored playfield, still a very much WIP (layout is still being tweaked and some art needing to be finished)...

Attached File  AIW_pf.png   318.69KB   226 downloads



#51 swaffar

swaffar

    Enthusiast

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 141 posts
  • Location:Spangdahlem, Germany

  • Flag: United States of America

  • Favorite Pinball: BBB, MM, CV

Posted 14 October 2012 - 08:28 PM

Looks great. Looking forward to playing this one.

Check out my mini-cab project

Signature_zps03cd408c.jpg


#52 T-800

T-800

    All-In

  • Silver Supporter
  • 417 posts
  • Location:Minnesota

  • Flag: United States of America

  • Favorite Pinball: Wrath of Olympus



Posted 15 October 2012 - 05:47 PM

Wow, thats a beauty! Nice work man!

I've had wierd things happen with ramps that cross a lane. I always have to increase their height maybe 10-15 units in order for the ball to pass on the FS version. Not sure why, but it works. Thanks for the update, its really coming along beautifully.



So... I design and build my tables in desktop format and then periodically during the build do the adjustments to make them full screen via the standard editor options (rotation, scale, off-set, etc.) to maintain angle independence on everything from the table editor side. When I converted Alice to FS for some reason the ball gets stuck on the left ramp part way down while returning to the right inlane. This "glitch" doesn't happen on my desktop version - the ball travels through the ramp and down to the inlane and to the flipper without a hitch. Can anyone explain to me what's going on?? Is this just one of those weird ramp issues that comes up and you solve by deleting the ramp and rebuilding it? I'm still confused as to why ramps can be so finicky from time to time... even more confused why it works in desktop by not in FS. Anyone info that can shed light on this would be grrrrrrreat. BTW- here's a snip'it of the colored playfield, still a very much WIP (layout is still being tweaked and some art needing to be finished)...

Attached File  AIW_pf.png   318.69KB   226 downloads


Thanks for the info - unfortunately changing the height isn't a simple solution - that ramp is based off of a platform that needs to be under another platform... On top of that the ramp needs to go under another ramp coming from the right side. Ball seems to get hung up near the entrance of the right ramp, maybe I just need to move that ramp a little deeper into the playfield to get 'er to work right. Probably better for the design too to get the ramp and it's posts a little further away from the flippers and fast rebounds if you happen to miss your shot... Still, so strange these ramps are..

#53 hassanchop

hassanchop

    The Crapmaster!

  • VIP
  • 789 posts
  • Location:Lisboa, Portugal

  • Flag: Portugal

  • Favorite Pinball: Royal Flush Supreme



Posted 17 November 2012 - 11:04 AM

can't wait for this...
Posted Image

#54 faralos

faralos

    VPF Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,838 posts
  • Location:Eastern Pa,USA

  • Flag: United States of America

  • Favorite Pinball: Flash (Williams) 1979, Flash2 Updated




  • Trophies:

Posted 17 November 2012 - 01:35 PM

that is a helluva great play field ya' got going there
Alice never looked that good when I was growing up
listening to her stories!!
any chance of a 4:3 or WS version?
so how much longer must we drool and fantasize about Alice
waiting for the pin
"Don’t let the noise of others’ opinions drown out your own inner voice.
And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition.”
----Steve Jobs


#55 T-800

T-800

    All-In

  • Silver Supporter
  • 417 posts
  • Location:Minnesota

  • Flag: United States of America

  • Favorite Pinball: Wrath of Olympus



Posted 17 November 2012 - 03:37 PM

that is a helluva great play field ya' got going there
Alice never looked that good when I was growing up
listening to her stories!!
any chance of a 4:3 or WS version?
so how much longer must we drool and fantasize about Alice
waiting for the pin


Lol. Yeah, I prefer Alice a little bit more endowed as compared to younger versions...

This pin is coming along slowly but surely. Spending most of my time building the real version of WOOLY (sanding the playfield today to get it prepped for drilling and assembling components), but pretty soon ill have time to work on this during the day and WOOLY at night. I'll still need someone to help code Alice in the end once the table layout and artwork has finalized...

(The table is angle independent so all versions should be supported.)

Edited by T-800, 17 November 2012 - 03:41 PM.


#56 EalaDubhSidhe

EalaDubhSidhe

    Elder solid-statesman

  • VIP
  • 1,099 posts
  • Location:South Wales, boyo

  • Flag: United Kingdom

  • Favorite Pinball: Whichever one may finally get me back on my feet.



Posted 17 November 2012 - 04:43 PM

Looking very very nice indeed.

One little observation: how shootable is the left entry to the horseshoe loop? Relative to the vector angle from the right flipper, it looks pretty cramped. That's also a lot of shots to have to fit adequately into a standard-body size. I'm also assume that the rabbit hole is a luck feature if the ball falls into it from a rebound or from a slow roll down the right orbit, since there doesn't appear to be a direct shot to it. If John Popadiuk were to take a look at that, I know exactly what he'd say; it would be a magnificently cool feature to make it deliberately unshootable under normal conditions, but place a target or a rubber in such a position that a good player could deliberately shoot for a rebound off that and into the rabbit hole.

May I make one suggestion? It looks like your ramps and inner shots are quite narrow. Outer orbit shots are often narrow, since these frequently have a fairly long leading edge that the ball can roll up before entering the shot. But it still looks like you might need a little more room to make everything play as sweetly as possible. I see two possible ways of doing this, without having to widen the field.

First: change the captive ball type without changing the shot. You can save the space of the two posts at the front, if you replace it with the sort of captive ball found on many Sterns - a front ball which is fixed down on a stand with a thick wire loop over the top, and a back ball behind it through to which the collision momentum is transferred. The entire width of the captive ball shot then becomes the back ball and its enclosure. This has two other effects too - the front ball is more exposed than it would be behind the posts, and as a spherical solid hit surface, produces a much greater range of rebound angles when struck.

Second: the most expendable shot to save more room looks like the left horsehoe entry. Don't block it off or anything, but make it an exit only by tucking the lane under the ramp a bit and moving the captive ball over. Now, there would be an actual point to this without diminishing anything from the game. If the lane is an exit, that means you don't have to angle to guide wall directly back to the flipper. You could get some very interesting dynamics indeed if the ball entering the right side and exiting the left is flung at the right slingshot instead, so it stays on the move for much longer afterwards. Also, you should definitely play around with that exit angle a bit if you do that, because imagine if you had it set up the shot into the horsehoe had the potential to hit the right slingshot, then the left, and be fired at the right target bank or even possibiy right into the rabbit hole. How cool would THAT be?

#57 T-800

T-800

    All-In

  • Silver Supporter
  • 417 posts
  • Location:Minnesota

  • Flag: United States of America

  • Favorite Pinball: Wrath of Olympus



Posted 17 November 2012 - 06:12 PM

Looking very very nice indeed.

One little observation: how shootable is the left entry to the horseshoe loop? Relative to the vector angle from the right flipper, it looks pretty cramped. That's also a lot of shots to have to fit adequately into a standard-body size. I'm also assume that the rabbit hole is a luck feature if the ball falls into it from a rebound or from a slow roll down the right orbit, since there doesn't appear to be a direct shot to it. If John Popadiuk were to take a look at that, I know exactly what he'd say; it would be a magnificently cool feature to make it deliberately unshootable under normal conditions, but place a target or a rubber in such a position that a good player could deliberately shoot for a rebound off that and into the rabbit hole.

May I make one suggestion? It looks like your ramps and inner shots are quite narrow. Outer orbit shots are often narrow, since these frequently have a fairly long leading edge that the ball can roll up before entering the shot. But it still looks like you might need a little more room to make everything play as sweetly as possible. I see two possible ways of doing this, without having to widen the field.

First: change the captive ball type without changing the shot. You can save the space of the two posts at the front, if you replace it with the sort of captive ball found on many Sterns - a front ball which is fixed down on a stand with a thick wire loop over the top, and a back ball behind it through to which the collision momentum is transferred. The entire width of the captive ball shot then becomes the back ball and its enclosure. This has two other effects too - the front ball is more exposed than it would be behind the posts, and as a spherical solid hit surface, produces a much greater range of rebound angles when struck.

Second: the most expendable shot to save more room looks like the left horsehoe entry. Don't block it off or anything, but make it an exit only by tucking the lane under the ramp a bit and moving the captive ball over. Now, there would be an actual point to this without diminishing anything from the game. If the lane is an exit, that means you don't have to angle to guide wall directly back to the flipper. You could get some very interesting dynamics indeed if the ball entering the right side and exiting the left is flung at the right slingshot instead, so it stays on the move for much longer afterwards. Also, you should definitely play around with that exit angle a bit if you do that, because imagine if you had it set up the shot into the horsehoe had the potential to hit the right slingshot, then the left, and be fired at the right target bank or even possibiy right into the rabbit hole. How cool would THAT be?


Thanks for the suggestions Eala. As of right now the flow and shots in the game are working very well. The horseshoe orbit right now is actually kind of interesting - a right flipper hit to the left entrance sends the ball through the orbit and down to the left flipper, a properly timed left flipper hit sends the ball back up the right entrance, through the orbit and to the right flipper, kinda like a ping pong effect. IMHO I prefer games that remove the slings shots from the equation if you've made a good hit - i.e. slingshot contact should be from f#$%& up a shot - I don't like it when orbit shots around the outside come down and hit the slings - my theory is why should you be punished with a random ball movement from a slingshot when you made the shot you wanted. Your idea is cool though... I might tweak it just to see how that plays as well. As for the captive ball -yes indeed, your suggestion for changing the captive style is a very good one, I will definitely implement it (going with the two big rubber posts has just been simpler for testing purposes...).

The rabbit hole as of right now is accessible with a left flipper hit - there's just enough angle there to shoot it in. This is something I've tweaked on WOOLY as well - to make sure Pandora's Box is also a shot you can get from the left flipper - was tricky in the current VP release.

Both ramps in the current build are actually almost too easy to hit... they play very similar to the ramps on CFTBL - which are very fun IMO. I plan on trying something similar in AIW compared to "Unlimited Millions" and the "Double Feature" concept - I love trying to build that value up to 16 mil and then hit the move your car shot...

The main issue as of right now is more in the pop bumper region. I've had to mess around with the sizing and location of those bumpers to get decent action - too much or too little bumping is tough to get consistently! I'm close now though - although the sizing on the bumpers definitely isn't standard and would be an issue if I ever build this as a real pin, but what the heck, that's why you gotta love VP, right?

I've also made some tweaks to the left upper playfield - instead of the toy cat being there I've changed it to a tea cup. Once you light mad hatter by hitting shots on the upper playfield a diverter will engage that will send the ball from the upper playfield ramp down where the cat toy is currently into a tea cup. Once you get three balls int he tea cup, the tea cup will "tip" with a controlled spill of the balls. Depending on how all that goes, it might change into the tea cup "breaking" and splitting apart to let the balls loose. As for the right upper playfield, I can't remember if I posted it earlier, but the theory there is as you complete the loop shot the guillotine goes up and up and up until eventually it comes down and releases the second ball for the two ball "off with your head" multiball...

Ahhh... so much fun pinball work to do and so little time. Too bad you gotta fit in real pinball playing time with the development work!!

#58 hassanchop

hassanchop

    The Crapmaster!

  • VIP
  • 789 posts
  • Location:Lisboa, Portugal

  • Flag: Portugal

  • Favorite Pinball: Royal Flush Supreme



Posted 17 November 2012 - 07:32 PM

wait a minute.. just 4 flippers?? just 12 shots (i think)???
what is happening to T-800??????

.... hehehe just kidding. what i really wanted to ask is: since in wooly is you and it's so great, now with alice how are u gonna do the callouts?
Posted Image

#59 T-800

T-800

    All-In

  • Silver Supporter
  • 417 posts
  • Location:Minnesota

  • Flag: United States of America

  • Favorite Pinball: Wrath of Olympus



Posted 17 November 2012 - 10:04 PM

wait a minute.. just 4 flippers?? just 12 shots (i think)???
what is happening to T-800??????

.... hehehe just kidding. what i really wanted to ask is: since in wooly is you and it's so great, now with alice how are u gonna do the callouts?


I know, I know I'm slacking - should I add another four flippers? Maybe one right in the middle that just spins like the one in Monopoly?! Ahhh... Anyway, yup, only FOUR flippers on this one. ;)

As for call outs, I'm still developing the rule set and how it's all called out and communicated, but I'm pretty sure I will handle it similar to WOOLY with audio clips giving instruction as well as the key shots will have their inserts flashing accordingly...

#60 hassanchop

hassanchop

    The Crapmaster!

  • VIP
  • 789 posts
  • Location:Lisboa, Portugal

  • Flag: Portugal

  • Favorite Pinball: Royal Flush Supreme



Posted 17 November 2012 - 11:21 PM

I know, I know I'm slacking - should I add another four flippers? Maybe one right in the middle that just spins like the one in Monopoly?! Ahhh...

lol :rofl:
:PP


but I'm pretty sure I will handle it similar to WOOLY with audio clips giving instruction as well as the key shots will have their inserts flashing accordingly...

that rocks!!
and even rock more if it would be with a sexy woman's voice hehehehehe :drool:
Posted Image